What does Kaori Sakamoto need to do next season?

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
16,077
She is also Sasha Cohen like in her ability to usually make one significant mistake.

This is just another reason to love her, though.
 

Louis

Private citizen
Messages
15,645
Flutzers and lippers really have no chance in this system without a triple axel or quad. The reduced base value that comes with an edge call, with the double-whammy of negative GOE, is near impossible to make up. Karen Chen was lucky to get by with just a ! in the free at Worlds. Points-wise, she would likely be better off doing a double lutz with an arm variation (and a double flip for Sakamoto).

Any coach who allows a skater with elite ambitions to continue with flutz/lip technique at this point is doing them a real disservice.
 

tony

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,745
Flutzers and lippers really have no chance in this system without a triple axel or quad. The reduced base value that comes with an edge call, with the double-whammy of negative GOE, is near impossible to make up. Karen Chen was lucky to get by with just a ! in the free at Worlds. Points-wise, she would likely be better off doing a double lutz with an arm variation (and a double flip for Sakamoto).

Any coach who allows a skater with elite ambitions to continue with flutz/lip technique at this point is doing them a real disservice.
Totally agree with this, and I actually think the ISU did a great thing with the double whammy. For 10+ years under IJS, the edge calls were often overlooked or even if they were called, the skaters were still pulling off +1 or 0 GOE (out of 3) on a jump that was just completely wrong. And it was typically a flutz when they already got credit for two Lutzes, etc. I never found it fair that a skater could do 4 Lutzes or flips in a program and still earn a ton of points for all of that, but if they did a third 3T or whatever, they got no points at all.

IJS has made skaters develop to be much stronger all-around, and this is another component of it that works IMO.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
16,077
Flutzers and lippers really have no chance in this system without a triple axel or quad. The reduced base value that comes with an edge call, with the double-whammy of negative GOE, is near impossible to make up. Karen Chen was lucky to get by with just a ! in the free at Worlds. Points-wise, she would likely be better off doing a double lutz with an arm variation (and a double flip for Sakamoto).

Any coach who allows a skater with elite ambitions to continue with flutz/lip technique at this point is doing them a real disservice.

When I heard they were considering giving lutzes and flips the same base value, I didn't like it. But at this point, I've come around and think they should take it even farther. Treat the Lutz as a difficult variation of the flip, with takeoff from a BOE worth 2 bullet points and takeoff from a sustained BOE worth 4 bullet points. Sustained meaning either a set amount of time or distance.

So even when a skater achieves this difficult variation, it would still count as one of their 3flips for purposes of the Zayak rule.

Such a change would mean there are only five kinds of jumps, not six. If necessary, they could allow for a 3rd 2a or maybe allow for 3 kinds of jumps to be repeated instead of the current 2.
 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,460
When I heard they were considering giving lutzes and flips the same base value, I didn't like it. But at this point, I've come around and think they should take it even farther. Treat the Lutz as a difficult variation of the flip, with takeoff from a BOE worth 2 bullet points and takeoff from a sustained BOE worth 4 bullet points. Sustained meaning either a set amount of time or distance.

So even when a skater achieves this difficult variation, it would still count as one of their 3flips for purposes of the Zayak rule.

Such a change would mean there are only five kinds of jumps, not six. If necessary, they could allow for a 3rd 2a or maybe allow for 3 kinds of jumps to be repeated instead of the current 2.


The Lutz and flip are entirely different jumps. Why are we lumping them in together? Because callers can't accurately see/call the difference? (Sorry for double post.)
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
16,077
Basically...but it's not a potential weakness of some callers that concerns me.

Skaters may perform flawed versions of each that are the exact same jump. While the current process (a huge improvement over previous quadrenniums) penalizes them for doing so, this depends on the callers making the right call with only one camera angle. Why leave such a significant call to luck and odds?
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,556
Most Lutzes these days aren't even performed in the way that truly made them difficult in the first place. There's no real long outside edge and there's no counter-rotation to make rotating the other way difficult. I think they should be even harsher in calling egregious flutzes flips and lips lutzes. And then let Zayak do its thing. It should be part of the overhaul to start coming down on entrances of all kinds, including horrible pre-rotation.
 

Brenda_Bottems

Well-Known Member
Messages
554
Most Lutzes these days aren't even performed in the way that truly made them difficult in the first place.
The short edge-flip entrance the Russians utilize is nothing short of revolting. Imagine Michelle Kwan or Tonia Kwiatkowski attempting such a preposterous maneuver.
So which ladies have better skating skills, from your point of view??
Off the top of my head,Karen Chen. Amber Glenn. Mariah Bell. Miyahara. Also that Belgian skater,despite the tawdry program and urban music.

-BB
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,556
The short edge-flip entrance the Russians utilize is nothing short of revolting. Imagine Michelle Kwan or Tonia Kwiatkowski attempting such a preposterous maneuver.

-BB
The Kween did adopt the short edge. 😭 It was usually her second Lutz during her earlier days and then it became her only entrance in her later days.
 

Marco

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,848
Most Lutzes these days aren't even performed in the way that truly made them difficult in the first place. There's no real long outside edge and there's no counter-rotation to make rotating the other way difficult. I think they should be even harsher in calling egregious flutzes flips and lips lutzes. And then let Zayak do its thing. It should be part of the overhaul to start coming down on entrances of all kinds, including horrible pre-rotation.
So agree with this.

Although, as much as I agree with harsher penalty or rules on flutzers / lippers, what's even more important is consistent calling.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,804
She’s always been my favorite Japanese skater the past three seasons. I’m in love with her speed and her edges and her powerful jumps. She had a great short program today.

She seems to have the speed to pull off a triple Lutz/ triple loop or a triple flip / triple loop.
 
Last edited:

Plusdinfo

Well-Known Member
Messages
283
Watching her in person made me a fan. Her speed puts many to shame. Her musical interpretation is undervalued. It's true that she has a bit of a Sasha Cohenesque tendency to not get through both programs without making an obvious error. Still, I believe she could be generally be marked higher.
 

Sylvia

Off season is club competition season!
Messages
65,008
Link to Kaori's fan thread that was started in January 2018 :): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/kaori-sakamoto-cheer-thread.103174/

ETA an article after the World Team Trophy SP:
Google translated excerpt:
Until now I was too nervous. Until now, I've only put Lutz in free, but from this season I'll put it in SP. I was nervous, and until now I was more conscious of 3-3 (continuous jumps). I've been practicing Lutz for the last two weeks. I've been practicing the Lutz edge for the first time in my skating life. Since it was approved, the game starts from here. Next time, I would like to continue practicing Lutz, which gives more points.

Free is the "Matrix" that has been around for a long time. Finally, I would like to create a sharp matrix.
-I think it will be a new program next season. I plan to put in a quadruple jump
It is becoming essential even for girls. You can practice for next season from Golden Week. I plan to make a new program and train for 4 rotations.
 
Last edited:

museksk8r

Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy
Messages
3,340
Watching her in person made me a fan. Her speed puts many to shame. Her musical interpretation is undervalued. It's true that she has a bit of a Sasha Cohenesque tendency to not get through both programs without making an obvious error. Still, I believe she could be generally be marked higher.
Kaori was in position to medal at Worlds in 2019, but unfortunately singled her 2nd triple flip in the long program and lost approximately 7 points in her total score when she did so. Had she hit that 3flip, she would have been our Worlds silver medalist that year. Ever since that performance I have wished we could go back in time and let her right that one mistake, so she can claim that silver medal. :shizuka1:🎹
 

Bonjour Sherry

Active Member
Messages
87
I don't agree with the statement that Kaori has been undermarked and underappreciated by judges. Maybe compared to some of the top Russian ladies, but most certainly not compared to other Japanese ladies.

Especially during the 2018-19 season, Kaori was given many gifts by the judges. She actually didn't have great consistency during that season but was given benefit of the doubt on my occasions. At her 2nd Grand Prix, she fell twice in the short program but somehow managed to vault ahead of Shiraiwa and Hendrickx overall in the long program. She was given higher scores throughout the season than Mai Mihara, who was far more consistent. Then, most ridiculous of all, the Japanese Federation dumped Satoko and Kaori managed to get higher PCS than Satoko at Worlds that season, even in the long where Kaori had a major error and Satoko skated spectacularly. :rolleyes: Better GOE than Satoko on jumps, yes. Better PCS than Satoko? Absolutely not. Compared to Miyahara, Mihara, Higuchi, and Shiraiwa, Kaori has been scored very generously.

After that season, the judges were a bit harsher on her, but I don't think they were particularly unfair compared to the other skaters.

Unfortunately, nowadays you need a quad or 3axel to be a medal contender in ladies. Otherwise, the best you can do is probably 4th or 5th place.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information