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Elena Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Maria Butyrskaya for ria.ru
(please open the link and click 10 times on the clapping hands at the bottom of the page. Yeah. WTF the clapping hands)
EV: After the Nationals in Saransk were over many figure skating fans, myself included had mixed feelings - we saw how incapable the senior skaters beating the juniors. Seems it's time to admit the juniors and seniors are two different sports. Especially for the ladies.
MB: My skating career ended 15 years ago and I can't even recall all these junior champions. No matter how hard I tried I never made it to the juniors team or the worlds. We still were doing figures, which, frankly, I didn't like and by the time I started liking it and became quite decent in it the figures were cancelled and I had to learn the 3lz and well, start all over again.
You probably don't recall the juniors of that times either: Natali Gorbenko, Tatiana Andreeva. Yet they both had won the junior worlds, though never accomplished much after. Later the junior winners listed such names as Elena Ivanova, Julia Soldatova, Daria Timoshenko, Kristina Oblasova- but they were unable to switch successfully to seniors either.
EV: I.e. the processes that happen in the ladies skating now are not new?
MB: Exactly. Of course there are differences, mainly thanks to the judging system and hence the changes in figure skating itself - it became so much harder. At my times we took the steps and the spins as the elements to rest and breath before the jump. Now it's so difficult and costly that you have to be concentrated all the time. The spins, for example, are a place to gain or to leave on the table too many points.
EV: In your career there were situations, when competing with a much younger skaters was ruining your mood?
MB: I had the idiotic destiny in figure skating. Before I switched to Elena Tchaikovskaya and became a world champion with her the nationals were the most important competition for me. It was always in my head that should, god forbid, I fail an element there I will not make it to the team. It's funny when I say it now, but there is a reason am a 6 times national champion. Each of these titles was suffered for and in a way I am proud I never lost the nationals to the little girls.
EV: But, frankly, you were afraid it might happen?
MB: Of course. I always felt that danger, hence I was so prepared and focused. But then I would pay for it. It's a shape I should had been at the Europeans and Worlds, but I wasted all my shape and energy in December. What for? But it was just that way. Though even now I don't understand why our top skaters have to work so hard in the nationals?
EV: You mean such skaters as Zagitova or Tuktamysheva shouldn't even participate the nationals?
MB: I mean they shouldn't put everything they have trying to compete in the internal competition with Scherbakova, Trusova and Kostornaya. I.e. the skaters who would not compete in the main competitions not matter what.
EV: Does it matter for the judges the `nationals result' for the best Japanese or Canadian skater would be `1st' while Zagitova's will be `5th'?
MB: I lean towards saying `yes' rather than `no'. On one hand it's great Russia has such a long line of the girls, that any of these little girls can beat the Olympic champion, but do we need it in a world where the destiny of the gold medal consists of so many little things?
EV: Am trying to figure: why there was no such thing in 2009, when the first two at the nationals were the little Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva?
MB: I don't remember now who was representing us in the seniors back then, but it was quite a failure back then. I think the juniors were allowed to participate the nationals in order to shake up the senior skaters. Now I don't see a reason having the little girls competing with those who aim for the team.
For example am curious what will happen at the worlds in Saitama. The Europeans are quite predictable: no matter who Russia will send to Minsk they will be on the podium. Japan, on the other hand, as a competition.
EV: You mean Kihira?
MB: Yes. She lands two 3A in her LP, one of them a 3A3T, which is something no lady had ever done before. I think it's a reason for our country to think - we've been the leaders for quite long - won 3 championships in a row, almost a whole Olympic cycle. Which, as we know, is not for everyone's liking. And now they will be looking for a way to beat us. Think the Japanese have found it. Besides, the Worlds will take place in Japan. You can discuss ad nauseum that skating in front of the home crowd is harder, but it's a known fact the local skaters have a huge support, from the judges as well.
EV: As a professional, in what way Kihira is better than Zagitova? Just the 3A?
MB: It's the main thing. As for the expressiveness of the skating - I wouldnt' say Kikhira better there. She is simply different. Her gliding is better, her legs are softer. Alina is more characteristic and fun. After the Olympics many were discussing whose LP was better - Alina's or Zhenya Medvedeva's. Perhaps Zagitova was not showing such a mature skating, but yet she got everyone? She certainly got me. it was so full of emotions, had a nerve, so brave..
Such things catch you, especially a specialist. Unlike a regular viewer you can always see was the element saved or done easily. So here: Alina was skating very easily.
EV: And this season? Is Zagitova running out of steam?
MB: She became more cautious, but that's easy to explain. After the big victories it happens. Besides, Alina grew taller and it shows. It's hard to skate like you used to, when the technique remained the same, yet the body have changed. Mentally it's hard for Alina right now. Am quite certain she does well at the practices. The competitions, on the other hand, are harder. There is a chance she still has the Worlds in Milano in her mind. Last season she gave all she had at the Olympics and she just didn't have enough power for another competition. I.e. it's easy to explain, but hard to stop thinking of .
EV: You reckon if could have influenced Alina's skate at the nationals?
MB: Perhaps. Basically the skate we saw was as bad as the one in Milano. The pressure is getting higher. Plus the jetlag after the GPF in Canada. But globally you spotted it right: the juniors skating is a completely different sport from the seniors.
EV: I.e. you also are for limiting the juniors?
MB: I don't think you can hold back on the complexity they are willing to show. It's useless. If an athlete wants to land complicated jumps and they can - why not let them? Let them land their quads in the juniors, so at least we'll get to see the ladies landing them. Just that the coach has to figure how to keep all these abilities once they get older.
EV: So we got to the point we have to admit: once all the sonograms, including Trusova, Scherbakova and Kostornaia switch to seniors next year Zagitova will have no chance? Just like Medvedeva, Konstantinova and Samodurova?
MB: There is always a chance. Am more interested to see whether these girls will hold it till the next Olympi.cs
EV: I highly doubt and think am not the only one. All 3 of them will be around 18 by 2022, and seeing how the ladies skating is developing they will be replaced by someone else at the Olympics.
MB: Let me disagree. Especially about Kostornaya. Am certain in 3 years she will be number one in the Worlds. And with a great 3A.
EV: What makes you think so?
MB: Alena has a huge axel, with the very correct technique. I don't think she'll grow much taller. She keeps her diet really well and she used to even before switching to Tutberidze. I know that, because I had a chance to see Alena quite often while she was training first with Marina Tcherkasskaya and later with Elena Zhgun. Kostornaya's gliding is different - its a real figure skating you want to watch more and more of. Am sure she will only improve in all the other aspects.
EV: What should the older skaters do? Look for a different federation?
MB: It's not so easy either. What can an athlete representing not a major country win? Nothing! The champions can be the Americans, Canadians, Japanese, French and Italian. Or, in other words, in order to become a world Champion you need an influential federation. I had such thoughts myself at the time. When it's hard to make it to the team you start thinking : where do I switch?
EV: Well, Julia Soldatova did switch for Belarus.
MB: Let me remind you, when switching she was second at the Europeans and 3rd at Worlds. What did she win after? The 18th place at the Olympics?
As for the what do you do next? I'd answer simply: skate. Yes, it is hard - to live through the period when nothing works for you. Perhaps it's the hardest thing in the ladies skating. But it's up to the skaters a lot. You can always become better, improve and progress.
EV: But what's the point? What do you work for, if you are not to make it to the main competition for a year, two, three?
MB: The athletes are not remembered for one victory only. It's much more interesting when the person skates and for a long time. With the victories and defeats. It just seems juniors have it easy. In real life take Tutberidze's group - the competition is insane. In every practice. It might be a good thing from time to time, but being under that constant pressure when you can't let go even in the smallest detail is really tough.
For example Medvedeva who switched to another coach more or less escaped that competition. But should she overcome that period things will be back to normal for her. Am certain. Here is an example for that - Liza Tuktamysheva, who I llike so much. The year she won the Worlds I predicted she'll become the champion. I don't know what happened after, when she was off for several years, but am thrilled she is back and loudly. It means she has the technique. I just love watching Tuktamysheva's jumps entries, the powerful take off, the coverage in the air.
EV: I'd say her only disadvantage is that it's harder for her to adjust to the rules change. Giving up the long entrances into the jumps, making the more complex landings.
MB: So she has other advantages. When she does her steps sequence with her rockers and brakets I can see how well she controls the edges. Her programmes are well balanced. Just that the complicated jumps, such as a 3A demand a higher concentration. Tuktamysheva is used to enter her jumps on a huge speed and can not afford doing as many steps entering the jump as the little girls. But she doesn't need to.
The jump itself, executed on a high speed, big amplitude and high must be marked very high - no additions needed. The steps slow the entry down. And change the mood. It's hard jumping from a short entry when you have an adult body and a normal weight.
EV: After Medvedeva's defeat at the nationals did you question her work with her current coach Brian Orser?
MB: The opposite, his work with her is visible and I like it. I like how Brian is able to get his skaters ready for the most important competitions. All of them. Medvedeva is not an example here - they have not been working for long enough together. Orser's skaters have such a different programmes that you can never guess what they will do next year. All his skaters are a full package - their technique allows them.
Obviously Brian is not working a lone - there are choreographers, gym specialists. But it's all organized so right that every year we see and interesting result.
EV: Do you have a feeling the new judging system does not reflect what was really the idea for the 2nd mark. The edges control, for example. On the other hand the connection between the past victories is obvious: the more the higher is the mark.
MB: It was the same in figure skating forever - even under the 6.0. It's hard to start thinking differently. For the judges as well. Hence you can still see the connection: a strong federation - the second mark is high. A weaker federation - the 2nd mark is lower.
EV: As an athlete yourself can you imagine what is it skating the programme under the new rules?
MB: Frankly? No. I would probably just die on the ice during the spin. Of course you get used to everything and all is coachable. But there is so much work to do! Especially since the spins is the element you can learn only through repetition. It's for a reason the skaters have a great coordination.
EV: Yet you were landing the 3A quite confidently when none of the Russian female skaters even thought about yet. Why have you never tried to land it in a competition?
MB: In the middle of the 90s I was indeed landing the 3A not badly. Right before the first GPF in France I was quite consistent and I so wanted to land it in my LP. I was landing it so easily in the practices, never missing it. The problem was that my coach Viktor Kudriavtsev and I didn't have enough time to polish it, hence the said 3A was ruining the whole programme. I.e. integrating that jump into the programme would be taking a huge risk.
The GPF back then was not considered a serious competition. It was held sometime at the end of February after the Europeans and was taken as yet another commercial competition, a chance to earn some money. So I approached the RFSF president Piseev. I told him bluntly I wanted to try a new jump but I have no clue how will the competition end for me.
EV: What did he reply?
MB: That I can do whatever I feel like, but should I finish behind a certain skater I will not participate the Worlds. Of course I dumped all the thoughts of the 3A. I was sorry after. I did have a chance to become a first Russian skater to land that jump in a competition.
EV: Have you ever attempted a quad jump?
MB: I did, a salchow. It was 1/4 underotated, but all and all the attempts were decent. However, both the 3A and a 4S demanded a great shape and the perfect weight - 47kg for me. Would I gain just a little all fell apart and I couldn't even nearly try that jump, while the rest of the jumps would be fine even if I gained 2-3 extra kgs.
It wasn't the main problem. But the fact those jumps were not required. You landed your five triples, two of them you could repeat and that was more or less it. So why take a risk? The quad jumps, in an addition is a huge strain the back and the knees. Even now the risk is not worth it - if you underotate you lose the points. If you fall it's even more points to lose. If the odds to land are not 100% no sane coach will integrate that jump in the programme.
EV: Yet Scherbakova and Trusova take that risk.
MB: Kudos to these girls, they showed the whole worlds the quads are possible, everyone is in awe of them and I don't think we have a right to judge. Whether it's needed or not in the ladies skating - time will tell.
(please open the link and click 10 times on the clapping hands at the bottom of the page. Yeah. WTF the clapping hands)
EV: After the Nationals in Saransk were over many figure skating fans, myself included had mixed feelings - we saw how incapable the senior skaters beating the juniors. Seems it's time to admit the juniors and seniors are two different sports. Especially for the ladies.
MB: My skating career ended 15 years ago and I can't even recall all these junior champions. No matter how hard I tried I never made it to the juniors team or the worlds. We still were doing figures, which, frankly, I didn't like and by the time I started liking it and became quite decent in it the figures were cancelled and I had to learn the 3lz and well, start all over again.
You probably don't recall the juniors of that times either: Natali Gorbenko, Tatiana Andreeva. Yet they both had won the junior worlds, though never accomplished much after. Later the junior winners listed such names as Elena Ivanova, Julia Soldatova, Daria Timoshenko, Kristina Oblasova- but they were unable to switch successfully to seniors either.
EV: I.e. the processes that happen in the ladies skating now are not new?
MB: Exactly. Of course there are differences, mainly thanks to the judging system and hence the changes in figure skating itself - it became so much harder. At my times we took the steps and the spins as the elements to rest and breath before the jump. Now it's so difficult and costly that you have to be concentrated all the time. The spins, for example, are a place to gain or to leave on the table too many points.
EV: In your career there were situations, when competing with a much younger skaters was ruining your mood?
MB: I had the idiotic destiny in figure skating. Before I switched to Elena Tchaikovskaya and became a world champion with her the nationals were the most important competition for me. It was always in my head that should, god forbid, I fail an element there I will not make it to the team. It's funny when I say it now, but there is a reason am a 6 times national champion. Each of these titles was suffered for and in a way I am proud I never lost the nationals to the little girls.
EV: But, frankly, you were afraid it might happen?
MB: Of course. I always felt that danger, hence I was so prepared and focused. But then I would pay for it. It's a shape I should had been at the Europeans and Worlds, but I wasted all my shape and energy in December. What for? But it was just that way. Though even now I don't understand why our top skaters have to work so hard in the nationals?
EV: You mean such skaters as Zagitova or Tuktamysheva shouldn't even participate the nationals?
MB: I mean they shouldn't put everything they have trying to compete in the internal competition with Scherbakova, Trusova and Kostornaya. I.e. the skaters who would not compete in the main competitions not matter what.
EV: Does it matter for the judges the `nationals result' for the best Japanese or Canadian skater would be `1st' while Zagitova's will be `5th'?
MB: I lean towards saying `yes' rather than `no'. On one hand it's great Russia has such a long line of the girls, that any of these little girls can beat the Olympic champion, but do we need it in a world where the destiny of the gold medal consists of so many little things?
EV: Am trying to figure: why there was no such thing in 2009, when the first two at the nationals were the little Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva?
MB: I don't remember now who was representing us in the seniors back then, but it was quite a failure back then. I think the juniors were allowed to participate the nationals in order to shake up the senior skaters. Now I don't see a reason having the little girls competing with those who aim for the team.
For example am curious what will happen at the worlds in Saitama. The Europeans are quite predictable: no matter who Russia will send to Minsk they will be on the podium. Japan, on the other hand, as a competition.
EV: You mean Kihira?
MB: Yes. She lands two 3A in her LP, one of them a 3A3T, which is something no lady had ever done before. I think it's a reason for our country to think - we've been the leaders for quite long - won 3 championships in a row, almost a whole Olympic cycle. Which, as we know, is not for everyone's liking. And now they will be looking for a way to beat us. Think the Japanese have found it. Besides, the Worlds will take place in Japan. You can discuss ad nauseum that skating in front of the home crowd is harder, but it's a known fact the local skaters have a huge support, from the judges as well.
EV: As a professional, in what way Kihira is better than Zagitova? Just the 3A?
MB: It's the main thing. As for the expressiveness of the skating - I wouldnt' say Kikhira better there. She is simply different. Her gliding is better, her legs are softer. Alina is more characteristic and fun. After the Olympics many were discussing whose LP was better - Alina's or Zhenya Medvedeva's. Perhaps Zagitova was not showing such a mature skating, but yet she got everyone? She certainly got me. it was so full of emotions, had a nerve, so brave..
Such things catch you, especially a specialist. Unlike a regular viewer you can always see was the element saved or done easily. So here: Alina was skating very easily.
EV: And this season? Is Zagitova running out of steam?
MB: She became more cautious, but that's easy to explain. After the big victories it happens. Besides, Alina grew taller and it shows. It's hard to skate like you used to, when the technique remained the same, yet the body have changed. Mentally it's hard for Alina right now. Am quite certain she does well at the practices. The competitions, on the other hand, are harder. There is a chance she still has the Worlds in Milano in her mind. Last season she gave all she had at the Olympics and she just didn't have enough power for another competition. I.e. it's easy to explain, but hard to stop thinking of .
EV: You reckon if could have influenced Alina's skate at the nationals?
MB: Perhaps. Basically the skate we saw was as bad as the one in Milano. The pressure is getting higher. Plus the jetlag after the GPF in Canada. But globally you spotted it right: the juniors skating is a completely different sport from the seniors.
EV: I.e. you also are for limiting the juniors?
MB: I don't think you can hold back on the complexity they are willing to show. It's useless. If an athlete wants to land complicated jumps and they can - why not let them? Let them land their quads in the juniors, so at least we'll get to see the ladies landing them. Just that the coach has to figure how to keep all these abilities once they get older.
EV: So we got to the point we have to admit: once all the sonograms, including Trusova, Scherbakova and Kostornaia switch to seniors next year Zagitova will have no chance? Just like Medvedeva, Konstantinova and Samodurova?
MB: There is always a chance. Am more interested to see whether these girls will hold it till the next Olympi.cs
EV: I highly doubt and think am not the only one. All 3 of them will be around 18 by 2022, and seeing how the ladies skating is developing they will be replaced by someone else at the Olympics.
MB: Let me disagree. Especially about Kostornaya. Am certain in 3 years she will be number one in the Worlds. And with a great 3A.
EV: What makes you think so?
MB: Alena has a huge axel, with the very correct technique. I don't think she'll grow much taller. She keeps her diet really well and she used to even before switching to Tutberidze. I know that, because I had a chance to see Alena quite often while she was training first with Marina Tcherkasskaya and later with Elena Zhgun. Kostornaya's gliding is different - its a real figure skating you want to watch more and more of. Am sure she will only improve in all the other aspects.
EV: What should the older skaters do? Look for a different federation?
MB: It's not so easy either. What can an athlete representing not a major country win? Nothing! The champions can be the Americans, Canadians, Japanese, French and Italian. Or, in other words, in order to become a world Champion you need an influential federation. I had such thoughts myself at the time. When it's hard to make it to the team you start thinking : where do I switch?
EV: Well, Julia Soldatova did switch for Belarus.
MB: Let me remind you, when switching she was second at the Europeans and 3rd at Worlds. What did she win after? The 18th place at the Olympics?
As for the what do you do next? I'd answer simply: skate. Yes, it is hard - to live through the period when nothing works for you. Perhaps it's the hardest thing in the ladies skating. But it's up to the skaters a lot. You can always become better, improve and progress.
EV: But what's the point? What do you work for, if you are not to make it to the main competition for a year, two, three?
MB: The athletes are not remembered for one victory only. It's much more interesting when the person skates and for a long time. With the victories and defeats. It just seems juniors have it easy. In real life take Tutberidze's group - the competition is insane. In every practice. It might be a good thing from time to time, but being under that constant pressure when you can't let go even in the smallest detail is really tough.
For example Medvedeva who switched to another coach more or less escaped that competition. But should she overcome that period things will be back to normal for her. Am certain. Here is an example for that - Liza Tuktamysheva, who I llike so much. The year she won the Worlds I predicted she'll become the champion. I don't know what happened after, when she was off for several years, but am thrilled she is back and loudly. It means she has the technique. I just love watching Tuktamysheva's jumps entries, the powerful take off, the coverage in the air.
EV: I'd say her only disadvantage is that it's harder for her to adjust to the rules change. Giving up the long entrances into the jumps, making the more complex landings.
MB: So she has other advantages. When she does her steps sequence with her rockers and brakets I can see how well she controls the edges. Her programmes are well balanced. Just that the complicated jumps, such as a 3A demand a higher concentration. Tuktamysheva is used to enter her jumps on a huge speed and can not afford doing as many steps entering the jump as the little girls. But she doesn't need to.
The jump itself, executed on a high speed, big amplitude and high must be marked very high - no additions needed. The steps slow the entry down. And change the mood. It's hard jumping from a short entry when you have an adult body and a normal weight.
EV: After Medvedeva's defeat at the nationals did you question her work with her current coach Brian Orser?
MB: The opposite, his work with her is visible and I like it. I like how Brian is able to get his skaters ready for the most important competitions. All of them. Medvedeva is not an example here - they have not been working for long enough together. Orser's skaters have such a different programmes that you can never guess what they will do next year. All his skaters are a full package - their technique allows them.
Obviously Brian is not working a lone - there are choreographers, gym specialists. But it's all organized so right that every year we see and interesting result.
EV: Do you have a feeling the new judging system does not reflect what was really the idea for the 2nd mark. The edges control, for example. On the other hand the connection between the past victories is obvious: the more the higher is the mark.
MB: It was the same in figure skating forever - even under the 6.0. It's hard to start thinking differently. For the judges as well. Hence you can still see the connection: a strong federation - the second mark is high. A weaker federation - the 2nd mark is lower.
EV: As an athlete yourself can you imagine what is it skating the programme under the new rules?
MB: Frankly? No. I would probably just die on the ice during the spin. Of course you get used to everything and all is coachable. But there is so much work to do! Especially since the spins is the element you can learn only through repetition. It's for a reason the skaters have a great coordination.
EV: Yet you were landing the 3A quite confidently when none of the Russian female skaters even thought about yet. Why have you never tried to land it in a competition?
MB: In the middle of the 90s I was indeed landing the 3A not badly. Right before the first GPF in France I was quite consistent and I so wanted to land it in my LP. I was landing it so easily in the practices, never missing it. The problem was that my coach Viktor Kudriavtsev and I didn't have enough time to polish it, hence the said 3A was ruining the whole programme. I.e. integrating that jump into the programme would be taking a huge risk.
The GPF back then was not considered a serious competition. It was held sometime at the end of February after the Europeans and was taken as yet another commercial competition, a chance to earn some money. So I approached the RFSF president Piseev. I told him bluntly I wanted to try a new jump but I have no clue how will the competition end for me.
EV: What did he reply?
MB: That I can do whatever I feel like, but should I finish behind a certain skater I will not participate the Worlds. Of course I dumped all the thoughts of the 3A. I was sorry after. I did have a chance to become a first Russian skater to land that jump in a competition.
EV: Have you ever attempted a quad jump?
MB: I did, a salchow. It was 1/4 underotated, but all and all the attempts were decent. However, both the 3A and a 4S demanded a great shape and the perfect weight - 47kg for me. Would I gain just a little all fell apart and I couldn't even nearly try that jump, while the rest of the jumps would be fine even if I gained 2-3 extra kgs.
It wasn't the main problem. But the fact those jumps were not required. You landed your five triples, two of them you could repeat and that was more or less it. So why take a risk? The quad jumps, in an addition is a huge strain the back and the knees. Even now the risk is not worth it - if you underotate you lose the points. If you fall it's even more points to lose. If the odds to land are not 100% no sane coach will integrate that jump in the programme.
EV: Yet Scherbakova and Trusova take that risk.
MB: Kudos to these girls, they showed the whole worlds the quads are possible, everyone is in awe of them and I don't think we have a right to judge. Whether it's needed or not in the ladies skating - time will tell.
... Heard that before 
Thank you 
