USA making it harder to get "Extraordinary Ability" green cards/visas (multiple Carreira/Ponomarenko references)

[Tinami Amori]

Also, let us not forget that Belbin's case was special. She submitted her paperwork on time, but it was lost (there is a proof, because she had copies). Her case had to be handled by piggy-backing onto another bill to pass, because she did her do diligence, and the recipient's side messed up.

At that time, Belbin/Agosto had WON several JGP, SGP and 4CC events, and received 2nd and 3rd places in the rest of Major Competitions. They were also Silver and Gold US Medalists, both Jr. and Sr.

C/P's results are not even close, even if have some of the same wins and medals.

 

[Colonel Green]

Do you think the US Fed would release Ponomarenko?

Wouldn’t make a difference even if they would. Anthony wouldn’t be able to get Canadian citizenship in time for 2022, so they’re locked into waiting for 2026 either way.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Wouldn’t make a difference even if they would. Anthony wouldn’t be able to get Canadian citizenship in time for 2022, so they’re locked into waiting for 2026 either way.

Carreira is not refused US citizenship! she can get it in proper time frame.
She is only not considered for an expedite procedure, or call it "an exception". She will get it, but not until her turn comes.

Personally, i think that if there are researchers and scientists waiting for Visas, and for US passports so they can participate in scheduled work at major US Laboratories working on Cancer research, Radiation research, etc.. Then a skater can wait too. Research for example that takes place at Livermore and Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories are far more important to USA's population that a "skater's hypothetical medal".

 

[Colonel Green]

Carreira is not refused US citizenship!

I know. Hence, my post.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

This is such a bummer.

 

[RoseRed]

As far as I know, Alex Krasnozhon's family has never lived in the US. He lived with a billet family initially, and then got his own place.

Other than being in a team, I'm not sure why his situation would be different than Christina's since they are the same age and seem to have lived in the US for about the same amount of time. I believe he would have needed to apply under the same category.

 

[Deleted member 221]

I'm with Tinami on this one. Carreira, while talented, has not proven herself to be "exceptional." Sixth place at Grand Prix events and fifth place at Nationals is a feat hundreds of US citizens have achieved. By comparison, Tanith Belbin had achieved something that no US citizen (or at least none in 30 years) had achieved. The reason for the denial seems strange, but I cannot disagree with the decision.

If Alexei K received expedited citizenship under an exceptional talent waiver, then I certainly understand and support tightening of the standards.

Top top, or even top 5 in the world (senior) championships would be a reasonable standard in my view.

 

[Colonel Green]

I'm with Tinami on this one. Carreira, while talented, has not proven herself to be "exceptional." Sixth place at Grand Prix events and fifth place at Nationals is a feat hundreds of US citizens have achieved. By comparison, Tanith Belbin had achieved something that no US citizen (or at least none in 30 years) had achieved. The reason for the denial seems strange, but I cannot disagree with the decision.

The reason for the denial is the basis for the decision, though. They weren't saying she wasn't a good enough figure skater, and that has repercussions for the sport in general, no matter what you might think of Christina on her own.

Yuzuru Hanyu would be rejected under the standard used in this case.

As far as what's a fair standard to apply here, Christina & Anthony have a very good shot of earning a spot on the US Olympic team for 2022. I think that's a fair standard for acceleration, since they could easily be the bronze medalists this year, for that matter, let alone two seasons from now.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm with Tinami on this one. Carreira, while talented, has not proven herself to be "exceptional." Sixth place at Grand Prix events and fifth place at Nationals is a feat hundreds of US citizens have achieved. By comparison, Tanith Belbin had achieved something that no US citizen (or at least none in 30 years) had achieved. The reason for the denial seems strange, but I cannot disagree with the decision.

But if you look at what criteria has normally been applied in the pre-Trump era to all athletes in all sports, Carreira is absolutely qualified. The title says "extraordinary" which applies you have to almost be a one-of-a-kind in your sport, but that's not actually what their guidelines require.

 

[Jammers]

I swear I’m wondering if the US gov doesn’t want to look like it’s favoring a half-Russian team, even though Anthony’s a citizen his lineage is Russian skating nobility. With any other administration I’d think that was far-fetched, but with this crew anything is possible. Or maybe someone with background knowledge is afraid Mrs. McNamara or Mrs. Green will turn out to be a Mrs. Mitchell.

We all know that this administration especially Trump just loves Russia. Trump is so jealous how Putin is the law and no one questions him in his country. He seems to love despots who have total control and can make their enemies "disappear' without a trace..

 

[chameleonster]

I said this in the previous thread, but whether you personally believe Carreira(or Krasnozhon, for that matter) is not talented or decorated or exceptional enough is irrelevant. Whether you personally believe that athletes should be granted exceptions is irrelevant. Whether you personally believe anyone should be granted exceptions is irrelevant.

None of these were the basis for her refusal, and so are not relevant. The criteria for her refusal are objectively ridiculous and make no sense. How is she supposed to earn medals in ice dance, a team sport, without a partner? How is she supposed to earn her achievements at all if it doesn't count if the competitions are only open to internationally competitive figure skaters?

 

[aftershocks]

There are different avenues to obtaining U.S. citizenship, and most are long processes. Going the route of Extraordinary Alien (O-1A) is the accelerated option, which apparently back-fired for Christina. I believe Mervin Tran went the slower route, involving obtaining an H-1B work visa, and later being sponsored for a permanent resident visa (green card). I'm not sure where in the process Mervin is at the moment. He may have obtained his green card.

I used to work in immigration law and so I assisted individuals in applying for all kinds of visas (J-1, O-1, H-1B, TN, K-1, L-1B, etc), some leading to the permanent resident application for a green card. It's a very involved and lengthy process in most cases. The O-1A category is for educators, scientists, business people and athletes. The O-1B category is for persons in the arts, and motion picture & television industries. I once applied for a British entertainer to obtain an O-1B visa to appear on a television series in the U.S., and it went through quickly, but that was many years ago and so much has changed.

Overview of the H-1B Green Card Process

Employer sponsorship isn't required for the H-1B green card process. There are other ways to become a permanent resident.

citizenpath.com

O-1 Visa: Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement | USCIS

The O-1 nonimmigrant visa is for the individual who possesses extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics, or who has a demonstrated record of extraordinary

www.uscis.gov

Green Card

Having a Green Card (officially known as a Permanent Resident

www.uscis.gov

 

[Deleted member 221]

I’ve read the regulations, and there’s no open and shut argument that Carreira meets the requirements. It’s at best a debatable case, and the US government has TREMENDOUS flexibility in how to interpret the vague guidelines. There is also - as far as I can tell (please correct me if I am wrong) - absolutely no requirement to rely on precedent. If previous administrations had a more liberal interpretation of the regulation, that does not bind current or future administrations to take the same interpretation in the future.

I agree that the reason for her denial is wrong, but also agree that she should be validly denied for other reasons. Maybe she can reapply when she wins a world medal, or any A-level senior competition.

In general, all countries have significant discretionary powers in interpreting their immigration laws.

 

[puglover]

Work visas are interesting for models which is what I assume Melania arrived under. Models can? or could receive work visas because they have a "unique" look. The big modeling agencies could secure work visas for a number of models from countries all over the world in a matter of a few days.

 

[bcash]

I'm with Tinami on this one. Carreira, while talented, has not proven herself to be "exceptional." Sixth place at Grand Prix events and fifth place at Nationals is a feat hundreds of US citizens have achieved. By comparison, Tanith Belbin had achieved something that no US citizen (or at least none in 30 years) had achieved. The reason for the denial seems strange, but I cannot disagree with the decision.

If Alexei K received expedited citizenship under an exceptional talent waiver, then I certainly understand and support tightening of the standards.

Top top, or even top 5 in the world (senior) championships would be a reasonable standard in my view.

The word exceptional in the application category is only a legal jargon. Your stated standard is only one interpretation. Plenty of people with less rare achievement than her have gotten the approval before.

 

[Daena]

Isn't it Melania's visa?

 

[Deleted member 221]

The word exceptional in the application category is only a legal jargon. Your stated standard is only one interpretation. Plenty of people with less rare achievement than her have gotten the approval before.

Yes, that’s my point. Open to interpretation. Plenty have. Plenty have not. The government has significant (perhaps absolute?) discretion, and Carreira has few if any rights as an “alien” applying for special treatment. No injustice has been done, and I’m not sure there’s any role for the courts here.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ It often depends upon how well the initial application letter is written and upon how detailed the documentation is and upon how carefully it is compiled and presented to back up the claim of the individual's extraordinary ability.

There are often cases in which persons reviewing applications will request more information and documentation or explanation on particular points that were fairly clear and straightforward in the first place. So a lot depends upon the person reviewing the application and possibly on their work load as well. In addition, it is true that politics enters into the picture regarding the number of different types of applications that are approved.

As with any legal matter, it pays to have a good strategy and to make a good argument clearly backed up with documentation that meets all the requirements.

 

[VGThuy]

Is this one of those cases where although the standards to meet the requirements is laid out, there’s still room for discretion for the decision-maker? This sounds like one of those cases where the conclusion may be right or at least the decision-maker has a right to decide in favor of a denial, but the rationale and reasoning behind the denial is incredibly faulty and wrong. Having a bad rationale/reason behind one’s decision can be just as bad as the decision itself as it provides the context for holdings which can be used as precedents.

 

[Colonel Green]

Is this one of those cases where although the standards to meet the requirements is laid out, there’s still room for discretion for the decision-maker? This sounds like one of those cases where the conclusion may be right or at least the decision-maker has a right to decide in favor of a denial, but the rationale and reasoning behind the denial is incredibly faulty and wrong. Having a bad rationale/reason behind one’s decision can be just as bad as the decision itself as it provides the context for holdings which can be used as precedents.

Yes, from what I've seen. The decision should be overturned based on absurd reasoning, even if the decision-maker could reach the same result another way.

In general, there's quite a lot of discretion in immigration law, and when you've got an administration that wants to choke off the flow of immigration, they have a lot of tools to do that.

 

[ccpompom]

This so heartbreaking. I feel so bad for her. Christina is such a kind person with one of the best sportmanship in the current field. She moved to USA when she was just 13. This is so unfair.

I hope everything can be cleared up. Can someone with a law background wheig-in and tell us what are the chances she'll get her citizenship before 2022?

 

[MarieM]

They should switch to russia or Canada ASAP.

 

[Ladida]

What about Vadym Kolesnik - is there a chance for him to get a citizenship before Olympics?

 

[PRlady]

What about Vadym Kolesnik - is there a chance for him to get a citizenship before Olympics?

Unless three US teams are badly hurt or retire, N/K's Olys are in 2026, assuming they continue their trajectory. Even if they turn senior next year, it's not like ladies where the freshest flower gets the prize.

 

[Colonel Green]

Can someone with a law background wheig-in and tell us what are the chances she'll get her citizenship before 2022?

Without the accelerated process, she won’t be able to.

They should switch to russia or Canada ASAP.

Wouldn’t make a difference.

What about Vadym Kolesnik - is there a chance for him to get a citizenship before Olympics?

No chance. He’s only just become old enough to apply, and he hasn’t been resident for very long.

 

[Sylvia]

Krasnozhon, at the age of 13, was not sent to JGP events, while he was in Mishin's group, was not happy with Mishin not making him his star student (Mishin had other top skaters at the time), etc. Alexei got upset and wanted to quit skating. His parents had friends (russians) living in USA, and in a telephone conversation they said "why don't you try to send Alexei here, we'll help him with skating, maybe he can do better here". (from his own interviews).

You have repeated this more than once in this forum and I just wanted to reply that, AFAIK, there were more reasons for Krasnozhon coming to the USA than just what you've written and they are not related to Coach Mishin personally. It's not my place to say anything more in a public forum.

Generally speaking, skaters do not reveal everything about their personal lives in interviews, nor should they have to.

 

[Tinami Amori]

You have repeated this more than once in this forum and I just wanted to reply that, AFAIK, there were more reasons for Krasnozhon coming to the USA than just what you've written and they are not related to Coach Mishin personally. It's not my place to say anything more in a public forum.

Generally speaking, skaters do not reveal everything about their personal lives in interviews, nor should they have to.

It is not what "i've repeated", it is what he repeated himself in several Russian interviews, where he was not shy at all, and very wordy with negative comments (critique), about both Russia's and USA's way of "doing things'.

As to not revealing everything, yes that's true. But it is also true that some Russian skaters often say "what's convenient" and give a story they think will make them look better and will get more sympathy and hide their own fails, hide the true facts, or think "it is what Americans/Canadians want to hear, because it flatters them".... (and then some of them go back to Russia later... and it is another story).

Have you noticed that none of the Russian/Ukrainian skaters, who transfer to skate for France, Italy, Israel, Austria, Cyprus, UAE, Turkey, Eastern Europe, etc...., give public interviews with "evils of Russia/Ukraine" twists? and "their sob stories" never make the news...

Americans/Canadians love to think that "Russians ran to them for protection and were wronged", and often get the "myth" they want to hear, because very often the person who is claiming "hardship" did a lot of things wrong, or the problem is "with him/herself" and not "Russia".

Many of them are not "Baryshnikovs" in "White Nights"... but they make you think they are.... coming to USA/Canada "for freedom", and taking you for fools.... well.... they can change a country, but can't change themselves...

 

[kirkbiggestfan]

Igor can and probably should suggest changes to some of his teams. I don't love the idea of partnering Ponomarenko with someone like Nguyen...but that has to be one of the easiest solutions.

 

[Debbie S]

I think both C/P and N/K are well-matched teams and I don't think they should be split. As posted upthread, N/K aren't really in line to go to Beijing anyway. I'm not even sure they'll turn Senior next season. C/P do have a shot at Beijing, and while it would be a big disappointment if they didn't get to go, given their age, 2026 is a reasonable goal. Both Christina and Vadym should be able to get citizenship by then, barring changes in policies or bureaucratic screw-ups.

 

[Kecasyl]

Igor can and probably should suggest changes to some of his teams. I don't love the idea of partnering Ponomarenko with someone like Nguyen...but that has to be one of the easiest solutions.

No thanks, and it's not that easy. Chemistry doesn't come easily in ice dance and C/P have it. I'd rather her just wait for her citizenship than for Igor to go play mad scientist with his teams and their pairings, even if he did then Pomo might not even make it to the Olympics even if he had a partner from the same country.