U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

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misskarne said:
And Max kicked Vincent's backside on the GP.
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Considering their free skate scores from China are almost even, with Vincent having the higher TES score, and Vincent was only a couple of points behind Max in the free skate in France, I would not necessarily say Max kicked Vincent's behind in the GP.

If anything both of them under performed on the GP. But transition to the senior circuit is difficult for many skaters, not just Vincent.

I do think it's important to remember Vincent is the reigning national silver medalist, while Max was no where near the podium last year.
 
misskarne said:
Why not if Zhou got one?!
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It is standard practice for last year's national medalists to get a teleconference. It has been like this for years. So Zhou should get a teleconference as did Chen and Jason. Little surprised that Adam got one but maybe his gpf got media attention, dunno on that one.
 
Glad to hear that Nathan will stick to five quads at Nationals. I think that is in his best interest since he seemed wobbly the last two competitions. Frankly, I think he could water down his content at Nationals a bit more and still win, protect his body for the Olympics. I would like to see six quads (if he is capable) at Olympics.

Also glad to hear that Jason hasn't 'missed a beat' since GPF and that he can't wait to get on the plane to San Jose. It sounds like all systems go and should put to rest rumors of injury.

@misskarne I would also like to hear from Max. But, let him be treated like an underdog: A lot of times, that is when skaters give their best!
 
At nationals, I would like to see Nathan use the layout he intends to use at the Olympics. Hopefully he will be able to complete the FS cleaner than he has most recently and it can give him confidence going into the Olympics.
 
It should also be noted that while Vincent has not trained in the Bay Area for a good 5+ years, he is technically a local and the local news is treating him that way. That is, they're covering him a lot as the local favorite in the competition to stir up interest for Nationals. So people here want to hear from him or get quotes for the news articles about him. As for Max, there is no such connection so he's not being covered at all here, and therefore fewer quotes are needed.
 
Firedancer said:
At nationals, I would like to see Nathan use the layout he intends to use at the Olympics. Hopefully he will be able to complete the FS cleaner than he has most recently and it can give him confidence going into the Olympics.
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Agreed. The same layout would be helpful, but if he needs to back off here and there, it won't hurt his chance of making the team. OTOH, he probably needs a very solid performance in his back pocket. So, his strategy could go 2 ways: Back off and do what you can to make the team -or- go for something stronger and more ambitious.
 
olympic said:
Agreed. The same layout would be helpful, but if he needs to back off here and there, it won't hurt his chance of making the team. OTOH, he probably needs a very solid performance in his back pocket. So, his strategy could go 2 ways: Back off and do what you can to make the team -or- go for something stronger and more ambitious.
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At this point I think Nathan’s spot on the team is secure. No one has come close to what he has achieved this past year. I think it is more about using this opportunity to use the layout he plans to use at the Olympics so he can feel prepared and confident when he is there.
 
Maxim Zharkov from Dallas just won Intermediate men at the Nationals with lovely jump techniques. I especially like the pewter winner William Annis. Both of his programs are fab, well choreographed and well performed. Look forward to seeing more of him.
 
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jlai said:
Little surprised that Adam got one but maybe his gpf got media attention, dunno on that one.
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They also get one if a lot of reporters ask for a skater interview. Adam had some of the highest numbers on his call.
 
Good luck to all of the U.S. Men competing @ Nationals this week.

A special shout-out to the most impressive and hardworking Mr. Vincent Zhou and Mr. Max Aaron. Good luck and best wishes, guys!! :respec: :respec:
 
Tahuu said:
New icenetwork article on US men's podium contenders: Nathan, Adam, Jason, Max and Vincent. http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2018/01/01/264143560
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So, um, not wanting to sound like the crazed uber here, but seriously, they could just rename that: Nathan, Jason, Adam, Vincent, for all the mention Max gets in here. No mention that he won the free skate in CoC. No mention that he beat Vincent twice (even as they're gushing on the foolish "pick Vincent for the future!" refrain). Jason, Adam, Vincent all get long paragraphs justifying why they should go. Nothing for Max. No justifications. No defenses. No arguments. The same old tired "jumper" label.

I know he thrives as the underdog, but it's reaching insulting levels here.
 
To be honest, I think that’s one of the least insightful articles I’ve read about the men’s competition. It essentially just rehashes a bunch of cliches, and I’m really disappointed in both Nick and Charlie White.

Charlie’s championing of Vincent as “the future” - after the less than stellar season he’s had - was pretty mystifying to me, until I remembered that he’s worked closely with Vincent: he choreographed Vincent’s original FS this season. That fact should have been disclosed in the article, because it’s pretty clear he’s actually arguing on Vincent’s behalf that he should be selected (“I hope they’re going to look for the positives in his skating”) while paying lip service to the idea that “[y]ou have to go out and earn it.”

That kind of undisclosed bias really has no place in an article that purports to be objectively analyzing Olympic team selection.
 
Charlie’s championing of Vincent as “the future” - after the less than stellar season he’s had - was pretty mystifying to me, until I remembered that he’s worked closely with Vincent: he choreographed Vincent’s original FS this season. That fact should have been disclosed in the article, because it’s pretty clear he’s actually arguing on Vincent’s behalf that he should be selected (“I hope they’re going to look for the positives in his skating”) while paying lip service to the idea that “[y]ou have to go out and earn it.”

That kind of undisclosed bias really has no place in an article that purports to be objectively analyzing Olympic team selection.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. Way too biased Mr. White
 
I'm feeling some deja vu with the way some are talking about Vincent in this thread. It's reminescent of how some spoke of Nathan two years ago at and after 2016 Nationals. I'm not saying Vincent is on the same level as Nathan (just compare both of their senior GP debuts and the protocols to see the difference) nor am I saying people aren't right to point out biases in the article, but I do think there is similarity there.

I didn't really see anything in the article to disagree with other than the omission that Aaron won the FS when he medaled at his GP event and that he had beaten Vincent twice. When Charlie is talking about Vincent being the future he's talking about potential and his age, especially in the context of the article that is talking about career arcs and where each man is in their career and ages. Adam and Jason and Max can all continue another four years, but on paper Vincent being younger makes that a fair assessment. The idea of making a splash is something I can see people debating but we know how Mens skating as of 2018 is lopsided in favor of TES and BV is a big indicator of that even if Jason and Adam have great GOEs and PCS to offset that.
 
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^Maybe a lot is being based on Vincent's practices (?) I am not even entirely sure how great they were but it was posted on TSL that he was landing quads right and left.
 
I don't know why predicting Vincent as part of the future would mystify anyone.

We've seen the international junior field this season. Kraznozhon has been dominating. The U.S. junior guys are all holding their own. We know Vincent can best Kraznozhon, Hiwatshi, Torgashev, Pulkinen. (Might not because Vincent is tackling a crazy amount of difficulty and with that comes great risk; but we know he's more than capable of it). We know Vincent can compete with Aliev, Samarin, Nadeau, Cha, Sadovsky, Vasiljevs, Rizzo.

I mean, all these guys are the future.

Course, there's still the challenge of Nathan, Shoma, & Boyang. But the future nonetheless.


Having said all that, predicting the men . . . LOL. Well, we love to try.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I'm feeling some deja vu with the way some are talking about Vincent in this thread. It's reminescent of how some spoke of Nathan two years ago at and after 2016 Nationals. I'm not saying Vincent is on the same level as Nathan (just compare both of their senior GP debuts and the protocols to see the difference) nor am I saying people aren't right to point out biases in the article, but I do think there is similarity there.

I didn't really see anything in the article to disagree with other than the omission that Aaron won the FS when he medaled at his GP event and that he had beaten Vincent twice. When Charlie is talking about Vincent being the future he's talking about potential and his age, especially in the context of the article that is talking about career arcs and where each man is in their career and ages. Adam and Jason and Max can all continue another four years, but on paper Vincent being younger makes that a fair assessment. The idea of making a splash is something I can see people debating but we know how Mens skating as of 2018 is lopsided in favor of TES and BV is a big indicator of that even if Jason and Adam have great GOEs and PCS to offset that.
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For me the key point is that Vincent isn’t anywhere near the same level as Nathan was in his senior debut season, when he took silver at the GPF. In addition, judges just aren’t responding to him the way they did to Nathan. If we want to “send a message” that we’re back in the World/Olympic medal conversation, I think Nathan already does that for us. And at the risk of pointing out the obvious, quad-heavy programs are fairly common these days, and they’re no guarantee of a top-5 placement at the World level (see, e.g., Kevin Reynolds at Worlds this year).

Vincent may dazzle all of us at Nats with a clean, 5-quad FS, much improved artistry, and an electric and compelling performance: if he does and beats out others fair and square, more power to him. But as it stands, he’s had the weakest season of all the men discussed in this article. To allow one of his supporters to talk him up and not so subtly put down his 3 main competitors (in fact, in Max’s case, without even including a quote), strikes me as a fundamentally unfair attempt to level the playing field in his favor. I just don’t like it.
 
ChelleC said:
Considering their free skate scores from China are almost even, with Vincent having the higher TES score, and Vincent was only a couple of points behind Max in the free skate in France, I would not necessarily say Max kicked Vincent's behind in the GP.

If anything both of them under performed on the GP. But transition to the senior circuit is difficult for many skaters, not just Vincent.

I do think it's important to remember Vincent is the reigning national silver medalist, while Max was no where near the podium last year.
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Fair enough about Vincent, but I would not say Max 'underperformed' on the GP. He did quite well for himself winning the fs in China and I think he was underscored in his second event. If anything Max is continuing to put himself in the convo for the Olys when many counted him completely out. While Vincent is distancing himself from the podium with his poor skates.
 
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