The Skating Lesson

[On My Own]

I really don't see why that's important.

It is important in this case if they're taking the opportunity to silence one of the few people who has said anything about their systematic abuse of athletes.

Similarly people are praising Tatiana Tarasova for her comments against DL. The fat shamer, who used to call skaters untalented all the time, calling out one of the people who has spoken extensively about Russian doping. Why?

 

[Wyliefan]

It is important in this case if they're taking the opportunity to silence one of the few people who has said anything about their systematic abuse of athletes.

What have they done to silence him? They condemned his statement, that's all. He was still free to speak after that -- and, in fact, he did.

 

[Willin]

if he really cared about the "high price" of children in sports he would have done some proper research and made a separate series, not called some recently deceased kids "not that good"

Or he'd realize this is a wider societal issue and not just a skating issue. Just about every major organization that deals with kids (and even many dealing with college athletes) have had abuse they've tried to cover up. Eating disorders, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, overtraining, etc. There's whole documentaries about it both serious (Trophy Kids) and for reality TV entertainment (Dance Moms). But wait - kids also get mistreated at home and that gets covered up!

I'm not trying to excuse what's happened or what USFS has covered up - because it's bad. I'm mad they're still not interested in those child marriages right under their nose and that the nepobaby who supported Coughlin didn't get fired.

But for Dave to act like this is a figure skating problem and kids shouldn't risk figure skating for the risk of abuse is to also say kids shouldn't do literally anything for fear of abusers. While they are prevalent, abuse hardly ubiquitous in anything and the majority of kids grow up in these sports, arts, and life with no abuse suffered. According to Dave apparently life as a kid period is not worth it because of the risk of abuse.

His timing of when to bring up some fairly valid concerns was pretty horrific.

Hope he sticks to taking a break and disabling all social media because he mentally seems to be in a pretty poor place if that’s where his grieving took him. I’m sure the comments on social media now will not help.

The timing is definitely an issue.

Yes, you can have your reservations as to whether skating is worth it - and that's a completely valid discussion to have. Gracie, Ashley, Vincent, and many other skaters who experienced abuse in the sport discuss it. Tying it to this tragedy and insulting dead kids is where he crossed the line.

I still think that Lease doesn’t understand that a person not having the highest “ability” or “potential” in an activity doesn’t mean it’s a waste, problematic, or abusive that they spend so much time and $$$$ in that activity.

There can be, unfortunately, unhealthy or abusive environments in any activity with children involved. But those issues have nothing to do with the talent of the person. And it also has nothing to do with having a moment of grieving over some beautiful people who have passed away.

Not to mention many people skate not to make it to the upper echelons of the sport but for personal fulfillment. I know plenty of skaters - adults, kids, etc. who pour lots of time and money in because they love it. They'll never see it as a waste of their time.

And even outside of the Olympics as a goal, there's plenty else to achieve with that time and money that people see as just as worth it: lifelong fitness, friends, a good point on a college resume, a chance to dress up and have fun, a chance to perform in shows, a career path in shows/coaching, a meaningful hobby, a National adult medal - or just qualifying for nationals, making the team you wanted to, passing tests, etc.

Just because your goal or potential isn't to be at the very top of the sport doesn't mean you're wasting your time.

 

[skateboy]

It's quite ridiculous that his show is called "The Skating Lesson." Have you SEEN videos of his skating? It's totally beginner level.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, but the idea that anyone who skates so poorly would give a skating lesson is really delusional. And Jonathan Beyer is even less credible as a skating analyst.

I know the title came to light when Jennifer Kirk was on the show with him, but she's been gone for a long time.

 

[overedge]

He wasn't having a "conversation". He was talking over his Patreon stream of a live broadcast (a copyrighted broadcast that he was pirating, but whatever).

His comments weren't taken "out of context". The audio clip of what he said was a complete clip. In any event, there's no context that makes it okay to say that kids died because they stayed at an event in a sport where they weren't going to make it.

His apology isn't an apology. It makes things worse, because he's refusing to take responsibility for his actions and mischaracterizing what happened.

Fcuk you, Dave Lease.

 

[Private Citizen]

It's quite ridiculous that his show is called "The Skating Lesson." Have you SEEN videos of his skating? It's totally beginner level.

To be fair, it's not beginner level. He can do an axel and medalled at Adult Silver Nationals. He's quite respectable for an adult skater.

Of course, using his own words, he's not going to "make it" in skating either, so why is the "risk" of all of this worth it for him but not for the young skaters at the development camp?

 

[Yazmeen]

My take?

He flat out STATED that "we ALL KNOW they were not going to make it in skating" in that clip. Who the HE** is he to make this judgement???? I don't give even one 'eff about what else was in the whole episode. He referred to these innocent kids who loved skating as not having the talent to make it and CAME RIGHT OUT AND SAID THAT. He blew it, and he knows it, as exhibited by him immediately taking down everything but his paid content and then didn't even have the decency to apologize right away. Instead, he came up with a weak apology that attempted to deflect the blame onto the sport itself that doesn't come close to making up for his foul statements.

I've been on the receiving end of Dave and his attitude; none of this surprises me at all, especially from someone who, IMO, appears more than a little allergic to even the mildest criticism while he can certainly dish it out. And I'll leave it there.

 

[bardtoob]

Alas, so many people have played sports in their lifetime. I guess they were all strung along, including myself. The same with the performing arts.

Wait, didn't David state he was in show choir in high school, yet no recording contract, and posted less than Olympic hopeful skating from himself on YouTube?

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[Carolla5501]

So, in the statement, he says he is stepping away from the sport & social media to reflect & reevaluate.

It is only a matter of time before he is back to commentating - I give it approximately 10 months.

Do you think he can stay away from getting attention for 10 months? This man gets his entire identity from people listening to his trash. And of course, as soon as he shows up some of you will be back going.

I’ll give it two months at best

I still think that Lease doesn’t understand that a person not having the highest “ability” or “potential” in an activity doesn’t mean it’s a waste, problematic, or abusive that they spend so much time and $$$$ in that activity.

Well, he should because the fact that he’s been doing podcasting for this long with as much cluelessness as he’s demonstrated pretty much tells me that he doesn’t have abiltiy or potential in the activity he’s been engaged in.

 

[Karen-W]

Do you think he can stay away from getting attention for 10 months? This man gets his entire identity from people listening to his trash. And of course, as soon as he shows up some of you will be back going.

I’ll give it two months at best

I doubt I'll be back to listening to his shows. I'll find other content to fill that time while he's gone.

And, yes, I do think he'll be gone at least 8 months, but more likely 10. In two months, there won't be anything happening in the sport because it's the off-season. At best, he'll slither back into action next September when we see Russia competing at the Oly qualifier. But, even after that, I'd guess he'll be really sporadic - and, apart from that, he's going to need to find someone else willing to appear on screen with him to act as his foil. I can't imagine any of his previous co-hosts are going to go near TSL from here on out.

And, apparently, it's big enough news to have hit a pop culture news site...

'The Skating Lesson' Controversy Triggers Official Condemnation from U.S. Figure Skating Body

This online creator is in hot water after making some insensitive comments.

t.co

 

[DreamSkates]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FigureSkating/comments/1j469l3/david_lease_the_skating_lesson_is_awful/

I have to wonder why it is that so many skaters flock to this man for an opportunity that their faces are on a youtube page.

Rhetorical, by the way. I don't care.

I won't bother watching the video. Or ever watching TSL again. Not that I watched it much. Maybe 2 1/2 times. Got better things to do.

 

[On My Own]

What have they done to silence him?

So if it turns out that he loses connections and network to bring up the issues he has in the future, you will admit you were wrong? Because that's the point I'm making.

Now Eteri has spoken too. I'm sure she has zero ulterior motive.

 

[Wyliefan]

So if it turns out that he loses connections and network to bring up the issues he has in the future, you will admit you were wrong? Because that's the point I'm making.

We're talking about two different things. Silence means silence. They can't and won't keep him from talking or writing. Losing connections is not being silenced.

 

[tony]

Now Eteri has spoken too. I'm sure she has zero ulterior motive.

Eteri has personally gone after Dave in the past for the stories he was relaying regarding Davis and Smolkin and their changing of countries [to the USA]. Called him an asshole all over social media, if I remember correctly. She already couldn't stand him.

Actually, she said he's full of shit and told him that he hasn't achieved anything himself.

https://x.com/SkatingLesson/status/1547609200397733888

 

[On My Own]

Ash Ketchum, you so full of shit.
You have no conscience, no honor.
You don’t respect others, because haven’t achieved anything yourself.
Your statements humiliate the people around you.
Shame on you.

Me several episodes after this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t4v8vYEczo

I was the one who brought that up here.

And so yes. I don't believe Eteri - or TAT, or USFSA, or some of the skaters mentioned for the matter - are doing this with any good intention in mind. It's because they hate Lease.

 

[overedge]

And once again, why does the motivation matter? He said something "vile" as USFS so aptly put it. What's the alternative? That even if they already dislike him, they should hold their tongues when he insults dead children?

 

[On My Own]

In the usual fashion for this forum, I have to wonder where I said that.

If you believe that abuse enablers and abusers wouldn't want to take down someone who calls out abuse, then enjoy that thought.

I will continue to hope for better representatives for this sport, and I'm not going to applaud some of these people for their statements against Lease, nor do I believe they're doing it in good faith.

Sorry that your countries' federations and many of your coaches and athletes don't have any credibility for the rest of the world, I guess.

 

[misskarne]

In the usual fashion for this forum, I have to wonder where I said that.

If you believe that abuse enablers and abusers wouldn't want to take down someone who calls out abuse, then enjoy that thought.

I will continue to hope for better representatives for this sport, and I'm not going to applaud some of these people for their statements against Lease, nor do I believe they're doing it in good faith.

Sorry that your countries' federations and many of your coaches and athletes don't have any credibility for the rest of the world, I guess.

Of course. But if you think Dave Lease actually gave a fcuk about any of the victims of abuse other than as a piece of salacious gossip to act superior about because he got a scoop before others....I've a bridge to sell you.

 

[On My Own]

Of course. But if you think Dave Lease actually gave a fcuk about any of the victims of abuse other than as a piece of salacious gossip to act superior about because he got a scoop before others....I've a bridge to sell you.

You, overedge, and others can 100% post that - and certainly a lot of you have repeatedly, without my saying anything about it - but if you can post that, then it deserves to be pointed out that the converse could hold true, too.

And there's more evidence towards the converse than things like how Dave Lease must have been faking death threats. It's just plainly true that TAT, Eteri, and USFSA care very little about children. It's plainly true that Cizeron, Fournier-Beaudry, and Flores have been involved in rather sketchy situations (to put it mildly), for them to suddenly be all 'we are such amazing people for posting/sharing these comments and statements' in "support" of it. This is rather ridiculous.

And this applies to some of the people here who have clear vendettas against Lease as well. Don't lose yourselves so far into that vendetta, that you cheer on USFSA and the likes about these kind of statements.

 

[YourBorneo]

It's quite ridiculous that his show is called "The Skating Lesson." Have you SEEN videos of his skating? It's totally beginner level.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, but the idea that anyone who skates so poorly would give a skating lesson is really delusional. And Jonathan Beyer is even less credible as a skating analyst.

I know the title came to light when Jennifer Kirk was on the show with him, but she's been gone for a long time.

Maybe the real “skating lesson” Dave taught the world is how to avoid becoming the type of toxic skating fan and person that he is.

 

[pachelbel]

You, overedge, and others can 100% post that - and certainly a lot of you have repeatedly, without my saying anything about it - but if you can post that, then it deserves to be pointed out that the converse could hold true, too.

And there's more evidence towards the converse than things like how Dave Lease must have been faking death threats. It's just plainly true that TAT, Eteri, and USFSA care very little about children. It's plainly true that Cizeron, Fournier-Beaudry, and Flores have been involved in rather sketchy situations (to put it mildly), for them to suddenly be all 'we are such amazing people for posting/sharing these comments and statements' in "support" of it. This is rather ridiculous.

And this applies to some of the people here who have clear vendettas against Lease as well. Don't lose yourselves so far into that vendetta, that you cheer on USFSA and the likes about these kind of statements.

Thanks for being one of the few voices of reason.


Dave Lease deserves to be called out for his callous comments. Also true is this mutual jerk off session from people and organizations that have abused skaters themselves, silenced victims, and chosen to ignore their part in perpetuating an actual danger in this sport is disgusting. And those cheering for those people like Tarasova, Tutberidze, IAM, and the USFS have lost sight of the plot in their aim to carry out this personal vendetta.

Their objectives in calling Dave out were clear and the praise from the skating world to those call outs make it clear that they were right in doing the bare minimum to deflect their part in perpetuating serious abuse. Trash all around.

In the same way people and I think Dave wasn’t calling out this abuse for altruistic means but rather personal gain, it’s funny that people are choosing to ignore the fact that these other monsters aren’t doing the same by commenting on Dave. Personal vendettas are clear and quite pathetic.

No one deserves any praise IMO. And in carrying out this trash parade, it seems people have moved on from the benefit show and the real importance in honoring the deceased to continue hounding on some asshat gossip mongerer that people have known about for more than a decade.

 

[VGThuy]

I agree with most of the responses here, even the ones that seem to conflict with one another. I think there are many layers and we don’t really know any entity or person’s true intentions… or if they even know it themselves. Many things can be true at one time and then not true later. One thing I really agree on is that the skaters deserve a real advocate who isn’t afraid to discuss some of the major issues and concerns surrounding the sport… and they need one that is better than Dave Lease.

For a while, it seemed people flocked to TSL because it was really the only consistent skating fan program out there, and it has that tabloid reality tv show trash appeal that gets so many to watch. It does appeal to the less savory aspects of human nature, and these days, that‘a a winning formula. The numbers aren’t that great outside of skating but in the skating community, it was big.

 

[On My Own]

And in carrying out this trash parade, it seems people have moved on from the benefit show and the real importance in honoring the deceased to continue hounding on some asshat gossip mongerer that people have known about for more than a decade.

I think one of the most ridiculous things I saw was the criticism of Lease criticising the skating and song choices at the event... I mean, okay. That's the epitome of self aware, I guess.

Dave Lease insults people. If this were 2017, I'd have been totally shocked that he insults, except shortly after I discovered a giant chunk of people on the English side of this fandom that also insults people. And that when you insult them back, it's ': (((((( why are you so rude and nasty to me and my favorites'... like, okay. Maybe you shouldn't have been in the first place? Maybe you shouldn't have told me I'm just too stupid to get the genius behind your comments and the comments from your favorite commentators, or whatever.

And maybe Dave Lease is only a manifestation of the culture you willfully participate in much of the time, just that you don't like it when it happens to you. I used to see it all the time on Goldenskate - Americans and Canadians insulting Asian and Russian skaters all the damn time, and then the most perfect victims when you insulted them back. Mods did nothing, and deleted your posts instead.

So even beyond what I said - and I do stand by it - I don't buy that a lot of it is happening in good faith. Organizations, TAT, Eteri, others obviously couldn't give a shit about victims. But even beyond that, the people celebrating this... People wanted him gone, because they see themselves in the mirror when they see him. Quite a lot of them do.

 

[cailuj365]

Idk what's going on here with these posts above. Sure, Dave Lease highlights important issues, but he's also extremely catty and mean and deserves to get called out for all of the hateful things he also says. I'm glad he got rebuked.

I'm not saying that USFSA or Eteri don't also have their major problems, we all know that, and someone bigger than them with actual weight and power should call them out for those issues so they can feel the consequences, but I'm not upset at them for also calling out Dave Lease/TSL at this time.

Let's just say that everyone needs a smack down at some point for bad behavior, and this was TSL's.

 

[Tinycities]

I think one of the most ridiculous things I saw was the criticism of Lease criticising the skating and song choices at the event... I mean, okay. That's the epitome of self aware, I guess.

Dave Lease insults people. If this were 2017, I'd have been totally shocked that he insults, except shortly after I discovered a giant chunk of people on the English side of this fandom that also insults people. And that when you insult them back, it's ': (((((( why are you so rude and nasty to me and my favorites'... like, okay. Maybe you shouldn't have been in the first place? Maybe you shouldn't have told me I'm just too stupid to get the genius behind your comments and the comments from your favorite commentators, or whatever.

And maybe Dave Lease is only a manifestation of the culture you willfully participate in much of the time, just that you don't like it when it happens to you. I used to see it all the time on Goldenskate - Americans and Canadians insulting Asian and Russian skaters all the damn time, and then the most perfect victims when you insulted them back. Mods did nothing, and deleted your posts instead.

So even beyond what I said - and I do stand by it - I don't buy that a lot of it is happening in good faith. Organizations, TAT, Eteri, others obviously couldn't give a shit about victims. But even beyond that, the people celebrating this... People wanted him gone, because they see themselves in the mirror when they see him. Quite a lot of them do.

It’s common here too in the pbp threads. Taste is subjective and unfortunately this is a judged sport that also has subjective parameters. No one will have the same favorites.

Edit: also, people assume that because the pbp threads are behind a paywall that people won’t see their comments. DLs stream was also behind a paywall, and that wasn’t seen as a justifiable reason.

At this points it’s also just a problem with the culture of the fandom.

 

[On My Own]

Edit: also, people assume that because the pbp threads are behind a paywall that people won’t see their comments. DLs stream was also behind a paywall, and that wasn’t seen as a justifiable reason.

At this points it’s also just a problem with the culture of the fandom.

Frankly I'm not even sure I care all that much if North Americans scratched each others eyes out at this point. It's the false 'we are just so pleasant unlike Dave Lease' and then you see they've been shit for years on their profiles, or some 'sassy' skaters who run a certain other podcast with skins thinner than Lease's who are shit to foreign skaters, and expect nothing in return, yeah. Look in the mirror. And keep your bs to your own athletes. Sorry you yourself lack that bit of self awareness, and that you and your fans justify all your bs and mean 'jokes' that no one but your clique that's mentally stuck in high school despite being twice the age of the average senior finds at all funny or self-aware, and expect nobody else to have the same kind of right to speak, I guess. And sorry I care more about Olympic athletes spewing shit than a nobody like Lease being mean spirited.

 

[PRlady]

Frankly I'm not even sure I care all that much if North Americans scratched each others eyes out at this point. It's the false 'we are just so pleasant unlike Dave Lease' and then you see they've been shit for years on their profiles, or some 'sassy' skaters who run a certain other podcast with skins thinner than Lease's who are shit to foreign skaters, and expect nothing in return, yeah. Look in the mirror. And keep your bs to your own athletes. Sorry you yourself lack that bit of self awareness, and that you and your fans justify all your bs and mean 'jokes' that no one but your clique that's mentally stuck in high school despite being twice the age of the average senior finds at all funny or self-aware, and expect nobody else to have the same kind of right to speak, I guess. And sorry I care more about Olympic athletes spewing shit than a nobody like Lease being mean spirited.

Since you say you don’t like skating these days and are often furious with anglophones here, I’m sure there are Asian or Russian message boards where you might be happier.

 

[On My Own]

Since you say you don’t like skating these days and are often furious with anglophones here, I’m sure there are Asian or Russian message boards where you might be happier.

I'm sure that's the case, but I will stick to this one. I like many of the posters.

 

[overedge]

I honestly don't get this perspective that criticizing Dave is more about having a convenient excuse to carry out a vendetta, rather than about being appalled at these particular comments.

And I really don't get this perspective that his critics are shifting attention away from this tragedy by calling him out. Dave said terrible things about some of the victims. Calling that out is about being truthful and respectful about what happened, not a diversion from the awfulness of what happened.

 

[bardtoob]

Dave said terrible things about some of the victims. Calling that out is about being truthful and respectful about what happened, not a diversion from the awfulness of what happened.

Yes, agreed.

The accident would be no less tragic if it weren't skating related, only the individuals or organizations most close would change. Perish the thought this could happen to some other jr. league sport.