The Shibutanis Thread 4: Ready for Paradise

Finally watched the whole press conference. One guy went up to them and asked them if they were fluent in Japanese. They had looks on their faces that my siblings and I have when we're asked to translate Vietnamese that is a bit more advanced than the conversational Vietnamese-English hybrid we can speak to our families back at home.
 
H/D ubers are saying nonsense.

Though is obvious that Maia and Alex were faster than H/D, the slow argument has been used for so long that it is expected that some people continue to use it. But to say that Maia and Alex have tacky costumes :rolleyes:, it is the most ridiculous comment I've read in a long time :lol:.

I guess I see why people like H/D (but their sexiness is overrated IMO, Vanessa she is not) but I am not seeing where they are better technicians or have better programs.
 
Congrats on the two level 4 step sequences! I don’t think they got the NtMiSt level 4 this season before now. That’s huge for them. Have they ever gotten both step sequences level 4 in the SD before?
Boston's world I think.


I’m sure they’re disappointed about the missed opportunity to break 80 (could it have happened with rhumba pattern 4 and better twizzle GOE?) but that gives them another goal to work towards for Olympics.
With max level everywhere ? Of course they would have broken the 80s.

It’s interesting to think that last year at the GPF they had a near perfect performance in the SD and got 77. This year, with 2 significant mistakes they got 78. I think it says a lot about their continuing progress and the quality of their skating and programs this season.
Shibs did get better, but the BV in the SD in general have also increased. The FD too. That's why Worlds record are breaking more and more. If you compare to 2014 Olympics, it was the same BV in the FD until Worlds 2016 and I think it was the same BV in the SD until last season..? (Not sure about the SD).
 
Finally watched the whole press conference. One guy went up to them and asked them if they were fluent in Japanese. They had looks on their faces that my siblings and I have when we're asked to translate Vietnamese that is a bit more advanced than the conversational Vietnamese-English hybrid we can speak to our families back at home.

Yeah, my Vietlish doesn't go super far either. I understand about 95 percent of the language when I'm spoken to, but forget trying to do anything beyond Pre-K level if I'm the one trying to speak/read/write.

I always think that I want to improve but I don't put in the time to do it, so I guess I really don't. Do the Shibs have any desire to learn Japanese to a fluency level? I don't think I have ever heard them talk about it -- I think for one, they're actually second or third generation? Judging from hearing their parents, I don't think they're immigrants, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
Boston's world I think.



With max level everywhere ? Of course they would have broken the 80s.


Shibs did get better, but the BV in the SD in general have also increased. The FD too. That's why Worlds record are breaking more and more. If you compare to 2014 Olympics, it was the same BV in the FD until Worlds 2016 and I think it was the same BV in the SD until last season..? (Not sure about the SD).

Thanks for the reply! I’m not super confident about my expertise in the technical side of ice dance yet, so I tend to phrase things as questions and uncertainties rather than statements. I’m glad I was right about some things and appreciate the clarification about the increase in BV for the SD. I did indeed forget to take that into account.
 
Finally watched the whole press conference. One guy went up to them and asked them if they were fluent in Japanese. They had looks on their faces that my siblings and I have when we're asked to translate Vietnamese that is a bit more advanced than the conversational Vietnamese-English hybrid we can speak to our families back at home.

I sympathize. I always cringe when someone requires me to speak Urdu. It was my first language but I was really young when we moved to the US and now my accent isn’t good and I struggle with vocabulary. I can barely understand anything on the news LOL.
 
Thanks for the reply! I’m not super confident about my expertise in the technical side of ice dance yet, so I tend to phrase things as questions and uncertainties rather than statements. I’m glad I was right about some things and appreciate the clarification about the increase in BV for the SD. I did indeed forget to take that into account.

Actually, the base values in the SD and FD are the same this season as it was last season. The SD had an increase from the 2015-2016 season and the FD added one more choreo element from 2015-2016 to last season which continued this season. So your original post was correct. I don’t think the Shibs ever hit a level 4 for the no touch step so this may have been the first. In the 2015-2016 season when they got all level 4s for the SD, there wasn’t a no touch step. There was a full Ravensburger and a full partial step.
 
Actually, the base values in the SD and FD are the same this season as it was last season. The SD had an increase from the 2015-2016 season and the FD added one more choreo element from 2015-2016 to last season which continued this season. So your original post was correct. I don’t think the Shibs ever hit a level 4 for the no touch step so this may have been the first. In the 2015-2016 season when they got all level 4s for the SD, there wasn’t a no touch step. There was a full Ravensburger and a full partial step.

It seems I know more than I think I know :lol:

Thank you for the further clarification (y)
 
Others have said already, but lol. I was digging all the mutual respect towards each of the three US teams, and how fans were able to point out good things about each of the three teams' programs through the GP series.
Then, Shibs go head-to-head against H/D and boom, the knives are out.
 
Others have said already, but lol. I was digging all the mutual respect towards each of the three US teams, and how fans were able to point out good things about each of the three teams' programs through the GP series.
Then, Shibs go head-to-head against H/D and boom, the knives are out.

I really respect and enjoy H/D (there are performances of theirs I love to re-watch), but I do think the Shibs at their best or when both teams are more-or-less equal are better and have shown that time and time again. It's just that SOME H/D ubers really have no respect for the Shibs or their abilities and they come out with the knives out. Those ubers have been gunning for the Shibs for a long time, and it came out aggressively after U.S. Classic and Skate Canada this year in an almost arrogant way. They are now angry after this SD because they've revved themselves up for an "easy" dethroning and it turns out it won't be easy. They probably thought that it would have been easy to dethrone the Shibs because they underestimate and don't fully value them as skaters and as an ice dance team (story of the Shibs' life as they had to fight tooth and nail for every score they get). There's not much one can do about that, but one can dispel myths and false narratives, which I spent some time doing today.

I will say there isn't really a lot of people debating the results or going crazy about it. It's actually a lot less than I thought it would be.
 
Guys, I just did the STUPIDEST thing. I showed up for my night shift tonight but I don’t actually have one tonight. My back to back night shifts are Friday night and Saturday night. Whyyyy :wuzrobbed:wall:

About H/D, I enjoy and respect this team a lot. The improvement they made over the last 2 seasons is marvelous and their FD this year became a favorite of mine from the first viewing at US Classic. I still think the Shibs are a stronger and more reliable team right now, and I particularly think their SD is stronger than H/D’s (not that H/D’s is weak, theirs is very strong too). I thought H/D had the better FD before SA, but now I think program composition and choreography wise, they’re equal. Just my opinion though.
 
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Guys, I just did the STUPIDEST thing. I showed up for my night shift tonight but I don’t actually have one tonight. My back to back night shifts are Friday night and Saturday night. Whyyyy :wuzrobbed:wall:

Oh no. Does this mean you'll be missing the FD?
 
Oh no. Does this mean you'll be missing the FD?

It seems so. I think the FD is in the very early morning hours of Saturday for us in NA right? If so then I won’t be able to. My shifts end at 4am.

I saw those adorable bears with them in the K&C! What amazing fans to get their SD outfits custom made for the teddy bears! I’m happy they’re getting a lot of love in Japan.
 
I really respect and enjoy H/D (there are performances of theirs I love to re-watch), but I do think the Shibs at their best or when both teams are more-or-less equal are better and have shown that time and time again. It's just that SOME H/D ubers really have no respect for the Shibs or their abilities and they come out with the knives out. Those ubers have been gunning for the Shibs for a long time, and it came out aggressively after U.S. Classic and Skate Canada this year in an almost arrogant way. They are now angry after this SD because they've revved themselves up for an "easy" dethroning and it turns out it won't be easy. They probably thought that it would have been easy to dethrone the Shibs because they underestimate and don't fully value them as skaters and as an ice dance team (story of the Shibs' life as they had to fight tooth and nail for every score they get). There's not much one can do about that, but one can dispel myths and false narratives, which I spent some time doing today.

I will say there isn't really a lot of people debating the results or going crazy about it. It's actually a lot less than I thought it would be.

Yup, the ubers who do that have the irritating habit of stating things that are debatable or even flat-out false as if they're a universal truth or an objective fact. Thanks for your responses in the Dance thread. The widespread praise of the Shibs' SD from ubers of other teams speaks to people generally recognizing their quality and strengths. (Some V/M fans speak the same way about P/C as well-- as if it's inarguable fact that they're just vastly superior and therefore even tied scores indicate crooked judging.)
 
I’m curious about how exactly they lost their timing on the rhumba pattern. If I hadn’t been watching the rhumba pattern all season I wouldn’t have even noticed something was amiss, so yay for my slowly developing ice dance technical acuity :D
:rofl:

Guys, I just did the STUPIDEST thing. I showed up for my night shift tonight but I don’t actually have one tonight. My back to back night shifts are Friday night and Saturday night. Whyyyy :wuzrobbed:wall:
:(


I wonder if is the same person who gave them these https://youtu.be/1geA2h2ri4I?t=358 or maybe in Japan you can order those bears. I want a bears with their red costumes :rollin:.
 
My guess is the matching costumes on the bears were hand sewn by a creative fan. We've seen this type of "love" show up before in Japan.
 
My guess is the matching costumes on the bears were hand sewn by a creative fan. We've seen this type of "love" show up before in Japan.

Japanese fans are truly loving with the skaters, Mao recently opened her instagram account and each photo gets a lot of comments, she posted these flowers https://www.instagram.com/p/Ba-0OsxAnrW/?taken-by=maoasada2509 and it got 332 comments, I mean, beautiful flowers but those are just flowers :confused:, and they don`t give the typical emoticon answer, almost all answers seem so long, like each person is writing her a sonnet or something.
 
I always think that I want to improve but I don't put in the time to do it, so I guess I really don't. Do the Shibs have any desire to learn Japanese to a fluency level? I don't think I have ever heard them talk about it -- I think for one, they're actually second or third generation? Judging from hearing their parents, I don't think they're immigrants, but maybe I'm wrong.

Don't know if they have any interest in learning but here's a little clip of Maia speaking a little Japanese, she has an American accent

Anyway just wanted to post this part from the ELTA HD broadcast. In my (objective) opinion I think the best commentators in the game right now, not too talky, very little useless fluff, it's just too bad they're not in English so people never know about them. The commentator said their partial step sequence was performed so well he could tell that it would be a level 4 and he was right, protocols was level 4. During the program he called the lift as level 4 too. This guy is EXCELLENT at calling levels, I've compared what he's called during singles skaters too and he's usually right on the dot. He also said that although there was a little mistake on the twizzle, it was also very difficult because they do so many rotations and that it is still level 4.

I will translate the FD too later on if he says anything interesting too but the commentator enjoyed it a lot at Skate America. He pointed out how their dance spin is beautiful and fast, their straight line lift has interesting positions and praised Maia for being able to change positions effortlessly during the rotational lift.
 
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Don't know if they have any interest in learning but here's a little clip of Maia speaking a little Japanese, she has an American accent

It was really heartwarming how enthusiastically the Japanese audience applauded Maia’s little speech. They definitely seemed to appreciate the effort to speak their language.

Thank you for translating the ELTA commentary for their SD. That was very interesting to know and I find it very impressive that the commentator calls the levels so accurately. I also appreciate how high quality their HD broadcasts are.
 
Don't know if they have any interest in learning but here's a little clip of Maia speaking a little Japanese, she has an American accent

Anyway just wanted to post this part from the ELTA HD broadcast. In my (objective) opinion I think the best commentators in the game right now, not too talky, very little useless fluff, it's just too bad they're not in English so people never know about them. The commentator said their partial step sequence was performed so well he could tell that it would be a level 4 and he was right, protocols was level 4. During the program he called the lift as level 4 too. This guy is EXCELLENT at calling levels, I've compared what he's called during singles skaters too and he's usually right on the dot. He also said that although there was a little mistake on the twizzle, it was also very difficult because they do so many rotations and that it is still level 4.

I will translate the FD too later on if he says anything interesting too but the commentator enjoyed it a lot at Skate America. He pointed out how their dance spin is beautiful and fast, their straight line lift has interesting positions and praised Maia for being able to change positions effortlessly during the rotational lift.

As I don´t speak english or japanese, so the first time I watched that video I thought that Maia spoke perfect, lol.

And it is great that you talk about this commentator because I love him, even without to know what he is saying. I watched Shibs fd performance from SA many times, with this video https://youtu.be/zMrkbFpOPUU?t=168 and I loved his voice, It is very pleasing to the ear, it seemed to me like he was narrating a documentary . And they only speak at the right moments. I am glad to know that his comments are interesting and with knowledge too. I hate how in Eurosports https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amrMjG08uRs&t=15s the music is so low and far, but then when the commentators speak, their voice sounds so loud and annoying and you can barely hear the music :wall:.

---------

This version (SD GPF) has very good sound and without commentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-r0-aw3o6Y
 
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I'm really glad Chinese figure skating commentators are more professional, for other Olympics sports such as aquatics the Chinese commentators will literally be screaming on air, I hate it.

I haven't found CCTV5 commentary for GPF but here's the one for Skate America SP:

Here the male commentator says: "This was a very good program, especially after the NtMSt this section was very exhilarating. They say that good athletes are this way, they can use the music and their body movement to make a complete package to elicit a good response from the audience."

And here is an interesting tidbit, I have time stamped when they speak:
Female commentator: "They are born and raised American athletes of full Japanese descent, they have broken everyone's stereotype that Asians are not good at ice dance. What's happening right now is that the training and choreography [in Asia] have not reached their potential, otherwise [Asia] would also be producing ice dancers as exceptional as [the Shibs] are. It's untrue that Asian skaters aren't as good performers as Western skaters."

Male commentator: "Right, this is very normal. In fact I think ice dancing suits Asians very much, skills wise right now singles and pairs are more advanced but the other American dance team, the lady is is part Filipina (incorrect, Madison Chock is part Chinese-Hawaiian), so she is also of Asian descent."

The rest was just about how Maia and Alex suit each other very well physically and that their look is very aesthetically pleasing. I have rephrased bits of the above to get the meaning across better in English.

ELTA HD is Taiwanese while CCTV is China's National broadcaster. They're similar to ELTA in that they only say the element during the program and then some thoughts after. They're less informative but generally they don't say anything too out there, maybe a little more nationalistic.
 
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That's really great, it shows how the Asian world is looking to Maia and Alex as pathbreakers whose tracings they can follow. :) It is wonderful how many different countries they appeal to. No wonder they are getting all these deals!

I wonder what the background of the Taiwanese commentators is. It's not that easy to analyze levels (or more English-speaking commentators would do it). Is there a wealth of expertise in ice dance there even if we don't see the results of it in international competitions? Or are they just two crazy people who studied in France or the U.K. and got into ice dancing there? :D
 
Yup, the ubers who do that have the irritating habit of stating things that are debatable or even flat-out false as if they're a universal truth or an objective fact. Thanks for your responses in the Dance thread. The widespread praise of the Shibs' SD from ubers of other teams speaks to people generally recognizing their quality and strengths. (Some V/M fans speak the same way about P/C as well-- as if it's inarguable fact that they're just vastly superior and therefore even tied scores indicate crooked judging.)
I think nobody expected P/C (who prefer showcasing other things than romantic connections in their programs) and Shibs (siblings) to came out that strong in the SD this year. Well not only do both of this teams have my favourites SDs (along with the Danes), but you can see that they do the technical very well. Shibs were the only one with both steps level 4 (hence the 78) and P/C won over V/M with the "Shibs method" = being foot-perfect. It's good to see that the cleanest SDs are getting rewarded (or for Shibs, their clean technique because yesterday wasn't their cleanest), because this is what the Short Dance is all about.
 
Congratulations to Maia and Alex on yet another strong performance. So much "noise" surrounding the Grand Prix event, which is understandable. But I expect that Maia and Alex are staying above and beyond it, as they know their goals and how to achieve them. They really are masters at handling competitive challenges and turning the faux narrative of skeptics into motivation, not distraction. For starters, they have had to deal their entire career in particular with what I think is not inappropriate to call "prejudice," against the notion of being a top contender in this sport as a sibling team. Given the preponderance of the history and culture of ice dance, which still pervades the judging hierarchy and mindset, but is something they share little to no indigenous connection to (by not being caucasian and having central casting blonde girl + brunette boy look) they lacked another obvious advantage. I do not underestimate how much in the way of character and grit it has required for them to persist and prevail, becoming the legit pioneers that they are as the first ice dancers of Asian backgrounds to win and medal at Grand Prix and ISU championship events. At times it must have seemed it required them to be 110% better just to be on a level playing field from the "perception" standpoint with international judges especially. I mean seriously, would you have bet on a pair of Asian siblings making it to the top echelons of the sport of ice dance?

I don't think it is a stretch to believe that Maia and Alex bring an exceptional level of smarts and dedication to their craft. Especially during this current Olympic cycle, they committed themselves to doing everything they could to become champions. This has included doing things differently from others, not just following instructions from coaches, and certainly not listening to arm chair critics who flippantly speculate on coaching changes at the drop of a dime, expecting that whatever coaching school in vogue is the panacea and could "fix them.". By taking ownership of their material to a level none of their peers even approach, putting incredible and dedicated effort into discovering their own identities and defining their path in this highly subjective and political sport, they not only "fixed" themselves, they achieved the unprecedented. The unexpected. And they did it the hard way. They earned it.

To me, they show such guts and the kind of core spirit of champions. I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been for them after the short dance at Worlds last year, not to mention the several years that they endured with so much grace, persisting in their goal of always improving step by step. Being ranked third in the short dance in terms of both PCS scores and total GOE, only to get so punished by the technical panel (the level 2 in PsT and level 3 in footwork, versus the levels 3 and 4 they received at both the GPF and Four Continents) cost them 3.0 points just in base value. If they merely attained these same levels that they had earned throughout the season, it would have actually put them 2nd after the short dance. To speculate on "what if's" is reflexive, but clearly THEY did not dwell. Instead, they were 5th after the short, and 3rd amongst the US teams. The feeling in their stomachs and hearts must have been so hard to swallow. How it must have been so frustrating and discouraging, especially given the amount of thought they put into every ounce of their programs, from each beat of the music, blending the two disparate themes (blues + hip hop = really?), bringing fresh insights to choreography, and even costuming which surprised, raised the bar and helped make everything classy and cohesive.

But, they rose to the occasion like the competitors that they are. The pressure of final group at worlds must be immense. And they showed their mettle! So much fortitude. They delivered. They made a believer out of me and I continue to always believe in them. Looking forward to them showing what champions are made of during the Free dance and the rest of this season.
 
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Congratulations to Maia and Alex and another strong performance. So much "noise" surrounding the Grand Prix event, which is understandable. But I expect that Maia and Alex are staying above and beyond it, as they know their goals and how to achieve them. They really are masters at handling competitive challenges and turning the faux narrative of skeptics into motivation, not distraction. For starters, they have had to deal their entire career in particular with what I think is not inappropriate to call "prejudice," against the notion of being a top contender in this sport as a sibling team. Given the preponderance of the history and culture of ice dance, which still pervades the judging hierarchy/mindset, but is something they share little to no indigenous connection to (by not being caucasian and having central casting blonde girl + brunette boy look) they lacked another obvious advantage. I do not underestimate how much in the way of character and grit it has required for them to persist and prevail, becoming the legit pioneers that they are as the first ice dancers of Asian heritage to win Grand Prix and ISU championship events. At times it must have seemed it required them to be 110% better just to be on a level playing field from the "perception" standpoint with international judges especially. I mean seriously, would you have bet on a pair of Asian siblings making it to the top echelons of the sport of ice dance?

I don't think it is a stretch to believe that Maia and Alex bring an exceptional level of smarts and dedication to their craft. Especially during this current Olympic cycle, they committed themselves to doing everything they could to become champions. This has included doing things differently from others, not just following instructions from coaches, and certainly not listening to arm chair critics who flippantly speculate on coaching changes at the drop of a dime, expecting that whatever coaching school in vogue is the panacea and could "fix them.". By taking ownership of their material to a level none of their peers even approach, putting incredible and dedicated effort into discovering their own identities and defining their path in this highly subjective and political sport, they not only "fixed" themselves, they achieved the unprecedented. The unexpected. And they did it the hard way. They earned it.

To me, they show such guts and the kind of core spirit of champions. I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been for them after the short dance at Worlds last year, not to mention the several years that they endured with so much grace, persisting in their goal of always improving step by step. Being ranked third in the short dance in terms of both PCS scores and total GOE, only to get so punished by the technical panel (the level 2 in PsT and level 3 in footwork, versus the levels 3 and 4 they received at both the GPF and Four Continents) cost them 3.0 points just in base value. If they merely attained these same levels that they had earned throughout the season, it would have actually put them 2nd after the short dance. To speculate on "what if's" is reflexive, but clearly THEY did not dwell. Instead, they were 5th after the short, and 3rd amongst the US teams. The feeling in their stomachs and hearts must have been so hard to swallow. How it must have been so frustrating and discouraging, especially given the amount of thought they put into every ounce of their programs, from each beat of the music, blending the two disparate themes (blues + hip hop = really?), bringing fresh insights to choreography, and even costuming which surprised, raised the bar and helped make everything classy and cohesive.

But, they rose to the occasion like the competitors that they are. The pressure of final group at worlds must be immense. And they showed their mettle! So much fortitude. They delivered. They made a believer out of me and I continue to always believe in them. Looking forward to them showing what champions are made of during the Free dance and the rest of this season.

Great and excellent post!!, I agree totally, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
That was hard to look at :(, since the warm up they looked so serious. Alex is probably sick, maybe that's why they changed the lift. This must be something psychological, I am a very healthy person but almost always the day I go out on a trip, I get sick. Well, even so their skating was very decent, I hope that they will be 100% in the nationals. Massimo was very supportive.

Anyway, their circular step seq looked great, right? but only L3
 
Alex was breathing very hard in the K&C. I don't think it was psychological. They are too well trained. Something was wrong that they didn't want to publicize.
 
Alex was breathing very hard in the K&C. I don't think it was psychological. They are too well trained. Something was wrong that they didn't want to publicize.

I meant, psychological pressure can cause physical illness. When I have my period, I never have any discomfort, not even the slightest, but a year ago I left on a trip, almost lost the plane because I got menstrual colic that did not allow me to move, I could not get out of bed.
 

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