kwanfan1818
RIP D-10
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I watched the CDs despite the music.
The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023
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Would anyone care to post the final top-24 SB list? I would do it, but I have a lot of Worlds still to watch so I can't go onto the ISU homepage right now due to the risk of spoilers.
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Lots of questions looking ahead to next season. On the European side, we don't even know if Guignard & Fabbri will be skating next year, do we? We don't know if the Russians will still be out. And, most importantly, we don't know what the programs will look like. I feel like the fact that Euros won't be in home territory is the least of the unknowns. Smart & Dieck will likely try to get into the game (and likely have a lot of learning to do as well). Reed & Ambrulevicius, the Finns, and Taschlerova & Taschler all took the opportunities available during a post-Olympic season and proved themselves in multiple competitions. What that will mean for next season's podiums is anyone's guess, but I feel like all three teams did themselves a solid.
On the 4CC side, we don't know how things will evolve with Hawayek & Baker and Wang & Liu. I don't think we know if Muramoto & Takahashi will continue, do we? Or Chock & Bates. We do know Canada will have three teams at Worlds.
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Lots of questions looking ahead to next season. On the European side, we don't even know if Guignard & Fabbri will be skating next year, do we? We don't know if the Russians will still be out. And, most importantly, we don't know what the programs will look like. I feel like the fact that Euros won't be in home territory is the least of the unknowns. Smart & Dieck will likely try to get into the game (and likely have a lot of learning to do as well). Reed & Ambrulevicius, the Finns, and Taschlerova & Taschler all took the opportunities available during a post-Olympic season and proved themselves in multiple competitions. What that will mean for next season's podiums is anyone's guess, but I feel like all three teams did themselves a solid.
On the 4CC side, we don't know how things will evolve with Hawayek & Baker and Wang & Liu. I don't think we know if Muramoto & Takahashi will continue, do we? Or Chock & Bates. We do know Canada will have three teams at Worlds.
Here it is...but it can be a spoiler if you have not finished watching Worlds!
1 Madison CHOCK / Evan BATES 226.01
2 Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI 219.85
3 Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER 219.49
4 Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON 214.73
5 Laurence FOURNIER BEAUDRY / Nikolaj SOERENSEN 214.08
6 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER 202.46
7 Marjorie LAJOIE / Zachary LAGHA 202.40
8 Caroline GREEN / Michael PARSONS 201.44
9 Allison REED / Saulius AMBRULEVICIUS 199.20
10 Juulia TURKKILA / Matthias VERSLUIS 198.21
11 Natalie TASCHLEROVA / Filip TASCHLER 196.39
12 Evgeniia LOPAREVA / Geoffrey BRISSAUD 192.85
13 Christina CARREIRA / Anthony PONOMARENKO 191.31
14 Marie-Jade LAURIAULT / Romain LE GAC 189.07
15 Kana MURAMOTO / Daisuke TAKAHASHI 188.87
16 Emilea ZINGAS / Vadym KOLESNIK 184.10
17 Loicia DEMOUGEOT / Theo LE MERCIER 182.00
18 Jennifer JANSE VAN RENSBURG / Benjamin STEFFAN 181.50
19 Maria KAZAKOVA / Giorgi REVIA 181.22
20 Katarina WOLFKOSTIN / Jeffrey CHEN 180.46
21 Eva PATE / Logan BYE 179.63
22 Emily BRATTI / Ian SOMERVILLE 179.14
23 Lorraine MCNAMARA / Anton SPIRIDONOV 179.03
24 Katerina MRAZKOVA / Daniel MRAZEK 177.36
2 Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRI 219.85
3 Piper GILLES / Paul POIRIER 219.49
4 Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSON 214.73
5 Laurence FOURNIER BEAUDRY / Nikolaj SOERENSEN 214.08
6 Kaitlin HAWAYEK / Jean-Luc BAKER 202.46
7 Marjorie LAJOIE / Zachary LAGHA 202.40
8 Caroline GREEN / Michael PARSONS 201.44
9 Allison REED / Saulius AMBRULEVICIUS 199.20
10 Juulia TURKKILA / Matthias VERSLUIS 198.21
11 Natalie TASCHLEROVA / Filip TASCHLER 196.39
12 Evgeniia LOPAREVA / Geoffrey BRISSAUD 192.85
13 Christina CARREIRA / Anthony PONOMARENKO 191.31
14 Marie-Jade LAURIAULT / Romain LE GAC 189.07
15 Kana MURAMOTO / Daisuke TAKAHASHI 188.87
16 Emilea ZINGAS / Vadym KOLESNIK 184.10
17 Loicia DEMOUGEOT / Theo LE MERCIER 182.00
18 Jennifer JANSE VAN RENSBURG / Benjamin STEFFAN 181.50
19 Maria KAZAKOVA / Giorgi REVIA 181.22
20 Katarina WOLFKOSTIN / Jeffrey CHEN 180.46
21 Eva PATE / Logan BYE 179.63
22 Emily BRATTI / Ian SOMERVILLE 179.14
23 Lorraine MCNAMARA / Anton SPIRIDONOV 179.03
24 Katerina MRAZKOVA / Daniel MRAZEK 177.36
World Team Trophy scores will count for WS. I guess all the WTT likely entries are already in the top 24 except if Lim/Quan shows up with an already smooth senior RD.
25 Carolane SOUCISSE / Shane FIRUS 176.35
26 Hannah LIM / Ye QUAN 174.39
27 Mariia IGNATEVA / Danijil Leonyidovics SZEMKO 174.23
28 Shiyue WANG / Xinyu LIU 174.11
29 Oona BROWN / Gage BROWN 173.74
30 Yuka ORIHARA / Juho PIRINEN 173.17
31 Marie DUPAYAGE / Thomas NABAIS 173.15
32 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT 171.61
33 Holly HARRIS / Jason CHAN 170.20
34 Haley SALES / Nikolas WAMSTEEKER 170.11
35 Phebe BEKKER / James HERNANDEZ 169.07
36 Alicia FABBRI / Paul AYER 168.86
37 Molly LANAGHAN / Dmitre RAZGULAJEVS 167.00
38 Misato KOMATSUBARA / Tim KOLETO 166.06
39 Victoria MANNI / Carlo ROETHLISBERGER 165.49
40 Mariia NOSOVITSKAYA / Mikhail NOSOVITSKIY 163.01
41 Leah NESET / Artem MARKELOV 162.59
42 Mariia HOLUBTSOVA / Kyryl BIELOBROV 162.38
43 Darya GRIMM / Michail SAVITSKIY 161.42
44 Natacha LAGOUGE / Arnaud CAFFA 160.43
45 Anna SIMOVA / Kirill AKSENOV 159.14
46 Celina FRADJI / Jean-Hans FOURNEAUX 157.11
47 Sandrine GAUTHIER / Quentin THIEREN 156.92
48 Leia DOZZI / Pietro PAPETTI 156.88
49 Lily HENSEN / Nathan LICKERS 155.30
50 Elisabetta LECCARDI / Mattia DALLA TORRE 154.71
26 Hannah LIM / Ye QUAN 174.39
27 Mariia IGNATEVA / Danijil Leonyidovics SZEMKO 174.23
28 Shiyue WANG / Xinyu LIU 174.11
29 Oona BROWN / Gage BROWN 173.74
30 Yuka ORIHARA / Juho PIRINEN 173.17
31 Marie DUPAYAGE / Thomas NABAIS 173.15
32 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT 171.61
33 Holly HARRIS / Jason CHAN 170.20
34 Haley SALES / Nikolas WAMSTEEKER 170.11
35 Phebe BEKKER / James HERNANDEZ 169.07
36 Alicia FABBRI / Paul AYER 168.86
37 Molly LANAGHAN / Dmitre RAZGULAJEVS 167.00
38 Misato KOMATSUBARA / Tim KOLETO 166.06
39 Victoria MANNI / Carlo ROETHLISBERGER 165.49
40 Mariia NOSOVITSKAYA / Mikhail NOSOVITSKIY 163.01
41 Leah NESET / Artem MARKELOV 162.59
42 Mariia HOLUBTSOVA / Kyryl BIELOBROV 162.38
43 Darya GRIMM / Michail SAVITSKIY 161.42
44 Natacha LAGOUGE / Arnaud CAFFA 160.43
45 Anna SIMOVA / Kirill AKSENOV 159.14
46 Celina FRADJI / Jean-Hans FOURNEAUX 157.11
47 Sandrine GAUTHIER / Quentin THIEREN 156.92
48 Leia DOZZI / Pietro PAPETTI 156.88
49 Lily HENSEN / Nathan LICKERS 155.30
50 Elisabetta LECCARDI / Mattia DALLA TORRE 154.71
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Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Lim/Quan are only about 3 points away from 24th, so it's very possible they could exceed their current score at WTT.
Rhumba d’Amour
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Wolfkostin & Chen have split, so there’s also that
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Yes, but the SB list will not reflect that. WS list will and they'll be dropped when the season end list is published in June.
if they bother communicating it (if they find new partners by June, they will be more likely to do so). Isabella Flores/Dimitry Tsarevski are still in the World Standings.
Same for the retirements. Some couples are taken out, some others are still there (at the bottom of the standings).
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kwanfan1818
RIP D-10
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I don't remember them removing anyone from the SB list, though, even when they've been removed from the WS list. Does anyone know of an example? That may be because it's so rare for skaters to be removed before they drop off.
For World Standings, it seems that if the Federation tells the ISU that there's an official retirement, they'll be removed, otherwise, they'll eventually drop off the list after a few years when their points go to zero. It's really annoying, though, when there is an acknowledged split in the Top 24 -- and usually at least one of them has a new partner lined up if continuing -- but the ISU isn't told officially in time for GP selections, taking away a spot that would have been guaranteed from someone just outside the list. (There are usually a few in WS 24 that aren't in SB 24.)
For World Standings, it seems that if the Federation tells the ISU that there's an official retirement, they'll be removed, otherwise, they'll eventually drop off the list after a few years when their points go to zero. It's really annoying, though, when there is an acknowledged split in the Top 24 -- and usually at least one of them has a new partner lined up if continuing -- but the ISU isn't told officially in time for GP selections, taking away a spot that would have been guaranteed from someone just outside the list. (There are usually a few in WS 24 that aren't in SB 24.)
I see that a year after Wolfkostin/Chen, Bratti/Somerville, and McNamara/Spiridinov all finished back to back at Cup of Austria, the international judges still can't decide between the mid-tier U.S. teams. Four of them bing, bing, bing, bing on the SB list. (In part, of course, because none of them get to participate in the post season when the scores rise; but still . . .)
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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This is part of why I remain skeptical about what sort of a sophomore splash Zingas/Kolesnik will have next season. Bratti/Somerville were the hot new US team 15 months ago and they've settled in with the rest of the mid-tier US teams. I'm honestly expecting the same for ZingKol.
RoseRed
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I think Guignard/Fabbri will probably continue, if I had to guess. The comments I've seen from them this season have seemed to lean that way, from what I remember. They've sounded very interested in continuing until 2026. It's definitely not a sure thing though. But I do think they're more likely to continue than Chock/Bates, for example.
A few small things from the Worlds post-FD press in terms of teams plans. The teams didn't say too much (and I'm just going by Jackie Wong's tweets about it, but there were a couple interesting points.
Not too surprising. Guignard/Fabbri are the only ones I could have seen being prepared to commit one way or another (if they were sure about staying in), but it makes sense that none are.
Not too much to take from that since they're all general, but G/F do seem a little more concrete / thinking about skating it themselves compared to the others, though that may just be because I already think they're the most likely to stay in.
Gilles/Poirier just not even being ready think about it makes sense, given how tough their prep for Worlds sounds like it was with Piper's surgery and everything. That's also why I feel like I have no idea if they'll stay in - because I don't think they know. A home worlds would be a big draw for sure.
With Chock/Bates, I'm leaning to them being done, especially since they finally got that World title. But who knows. I wouldn't be shocked if they stayed in. They'd also enjoy Worlds in Montreal, I'm sure.
On the one hand, I agree. Zingas & Kolesnik will have to go out on the GP and face the real music; that's for sure. I expect ups & downs as one usually gets with new teams. They'll still have Igor, but they will have a lot more international skates & it will give us (and the judges at U.S. Nationals) a much more complete view. On the other hand, she was even more of an unknown than Bratti at the start of this season & what Z/K did accomplish this season got them onto the map for CS and GP invites so this was a success for Z&K. It's just . . . I have real doubts that they will be scoring within a point & a half of a clean Carreira & Ponomarenko FD.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Same. And I doubt they'll be beating a clean CarPon RD. That was an unexpected gift at Nats and I think if Anthony can make some significant progress in the off-season, they're going to be in the medal hunt on the GP next fall.
Yes, that quote about the RD from Guignard & Fabbri is an encouraging one. I know we had talked about the possibility that they might take time off to start a family in the middle of the quadrennium & then come back for a home Olympics so I was wondering if they had said anything at all about next season.
kwanfan1818
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I saw a video interview with Guignard and Fabbri earlier this season, and I may be mis-remembering, but I thought Fabbri said that they would like to stay in until 2026 if they remain healthy along the way. Granted, 2026 is years away, and they could just decide they don't want to continue for other reasons, but that health check was their plan.
screech
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If we're talking music from Montreal natives, which 'avant garde' team will do their FD William Shatner's version of 'Rocket Man'?
We'll also probably have an unfortunate ton of "Je Suis Malade" as Lara Fabian lives in Montreal.
I wouldn't hate hearing some Andy Kim...
In dance though? It would be tacky as the piece was made famous by a Canadian dance team. (I could see Russian choreographers thinking that would be a good reason, but there may not be any Russian teams there and if there are, it will be a team that's higher up the food chain & not so likely to use imitation).
She may get her citizenship & they may have more flexibility in their training situation next year.
litenkyckling
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They will also have to contend with super original and complicated Igor choreography
Well, to be fair, there wasn't a whole lot of original choreography at U.S. Nationals this year. (The Browns had about the only original Latin RD). I'd like to think we might get a little MORE next season, please.
Spiralgraph
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I tend to agree but I don't want to think that Z/K will not improve either. That fourth place finish as a new team will surely motivate them to work hard and keep developing their strengths. And assuming that H/B return, which I hope they will, that will have an effect on how these teams rank amongst themselves. It may be an unpredictable Nationals 2024.
Trivia:
7 different dance teams have finished in 4th place at U.S. Nationals in the past 8 years. Only one team has repeated a fourth place finish during that time. (Green & Parsons). If you go back nine, Hawayek & Baker did it with a two year hiatus in between.
7 different dance teams have finished in 4th place at U.S. Nationals in the past 8 years. Only one team has repeated a fourth place finish during that time. (Green & Parsons). If you go back nine, Hawayek & Baker did it with a two year hiatus in between.
ice coverage
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As I think Karen already knows (but maybe others do not), the four consecutive U.S. couples on the 2022-23 ISU SB list are:
20 Katarina WOLFKOSTIN / Jeffrey CHEN USA ISU CS Budapest Trophy 2022 16/10/2022 180.46
21 Eva PATE / Logan BYE USA ISU CS U.S. International FS Classic 2022 15/09/2022 179.63
22 Emily BRATTI / Ian SOMERVILLE USA ISU GP Skate Canada International 2022 29/10/2022 179.14
23 Lorraine MCNAMARA / Anton SPIRIDONOV USA ISU CS U.S. International FS Classic 2022 15/09/2022 179.03
Z/K are ahead by a bit:
16 Emilea ZINGAS / Vadym KOLESNIK USA ISU CS 54th Golden Spin of Zagreb 2022 10/12/2022 184.10
Head to head at 2023 Nats, Z/K were ahead of B/S and McN/S by over eight points, with W/C and P/B further behind.
We shall see what next season brings, but I am hopeful that Z/K can keep their momentum going, internationally and nationally.
For me, it is a separate question how Z/K will fare in comparison to Carreira/Ponomarenko, who also have their own momentum going.
My expectation would be that both couples will continue on an upward trajectory.
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Former Lurve Goddess
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I dare a voidy, avant garde team to skate to 1990s Montreal ska band Me, Mom and Morgentaler.
It's my understanding that Guignard & Fabbri plan to stay in for their home country Italian Olympics in 2026
I am curious how you are defining upward trajectory.My expectation would be that both couples will continue on an upward trajectory.
ice coverage
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If you're asking me to make a more detailed prediction, my crystal ball
is not giving me any specifics. 
As a general thing, I think a trajectory that overall could be characterized as upward could look like the emoji I used above:
.Meaning that it would not need to be a completely straight line upward, IMO.
No, I mean . . .If you're asking me to make a more detailed prediction, my crystal ball
1. Do you mean improved skating?
2. Or defeating teams that have defeated those teams or finished above higher ranked teams from this season?
3. Or placing higher nationally?
4. Or placing higher at the major international level?
5. Or neither but placing better in smaller events?
My thoughts on each of these would be different. I expect the top one for both teams. I think some are very plausible. (2 & 5 for different teams). I think some are very much long shots (3 and, in part because of 3, 4) & I wouldn't describe those two as on my expectation list at all; but I'm curious what your definition of "upward trajectory" is because I think it could lead to an interesting conversation. Obviously a whole lot comes down to what Chock & Bates and Hawayek & Baker decide to do in their careers.
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SidelineSkater
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I could see Chock/Bates sticking around for the Olympics. They didn't have great Olympic memories in 18, and a slip in the RD in 22 took them out of bronze contention (realistically they and H/D were fighting for 3rd, despite both teams winning their segments in the team event). I think they want that medal. Considering they had a late start to the season and had to rework and re-market their FD this year, they were able to rise to the top. I think all three World medalists see themselves as podium contenders in the dance event, and quite possibly all in the hunt for a team medal. If C/B stay around and medal in both, they'll be tied for the most Olympic medals for a US ice dance team. And could possibly end up with the most World medals too for US dance.
I know there's a huge buzz around here that Fear/Gibson are being pushed up for a World/Olympic podium, but I think they're peaking at top 5 teams - unless any of the top 3 retire/don't compete.
Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out in three years!
I know there's a huge buzz around here that Fear/Gibson are being pushed up for a World/Olympic podium, but I think they're peaking at top 5 teams - unless any of the top 3 retire/don't compete.
Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out in three years!
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