The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

[screech]

Where is the dancing in chock and bates fd all I see a series of acrobatic tricks 95% done by chock, I guess its lets screw canada again at worlds the minute the usfs and judges heard about piper surgery the politicking went into overdrive pathetic.

I didn't watch the FD but I read a lot of comments by people saying that while C/B are engaging to watch, especially in person, they do a lot more two-foot skating and posing than FB/S, and that FB/S also have a lot more speed and flow across the ice.

 

[angi]

Thou shalt always know better than to compare scores from different events.

Thou knows that But thou also knows how much momentum impacts ice dance, and while G/F's scores stagnated from competition to competition, for the most part, FB/S's scores increased so there's a clear trajectory to observe as well. And overall aside from the top 2 I don't think the judges were overly generous in their scoring so I can't even say it was an event with massive overscoring like some senior Bs are.
But I do agree with you that G/F's chances are still better than those of FB/S, but if FB/S skate as strong as they did at 4CC and slightly improve their already very good levels, they can have a real shot at Bronze, even if not as high as G/F.

 

[yurokis40]

I didn't watch the FD but I read a lot of comments by people saying that while C/B are engaging to watch, especially in person, they do a lot more two-foot skating and posing than FB/S, and that FB/S also have a lot more speed and flow across the ice.

Lajoie and lagha had the stronger skating skills as well even ben agosto admited it, even if bock win the world title this year its the last hurrah for them, even if they stick around one more with there greatest even there not gonna repeat Marie france will go all in for her canadian teams next year, and no amount of us politicking will change the outcome. two medals in montreal next year the canadanes and lala.

 

[Andora]

This year, I finally get the sense that judges are willing to reward FB&S IF they skate clean. IF they had done that with some consistency this season, then the competition for podium spots would have been a bit more intense. As it stands, they could play spoiler if any of the established top three waver enough. Imagine what they could do if they didn't have the ability to place anywhere from 2nd to 6th (or worse) on any given day. Here's hoping they stick around next year and push further!

With Laurence competing so well injured, I wonder if that's just their natural state at this point?

 

[Colonel Green]

It is a gut punch that LaLa won’t be at Worlds.

I'm disappointed for them, definitely.

But one should also say, they are probably overall the most fortunate junior team of their generation in terms of the transition to senior assignments. National podium in their first senior season and immediate ticket to 4CC + Worlds (though Worlds got cancelled), actually made it to Worlds in their second senior season, first Olympics in Year 3. Michael Parsons is only scheduled to make his Worlds debut in Year 6 of seniors, and it will be Year 9 before he has a crack at the Olympics; Carreira & Ponomarenko are still waiting (assuming, as we all hope, that Kaitlin & Jean-Luc are well-enough to go this year).

 

[her grace]

L/L benefited from Virtue/Moir’s return, which subsequently cleared the field of a lot of Canada’s senior dance teams. With that generation gone, there was space for them to have an immediate impact.

It’s all in the timing.

 

[chantilly]

L/L benefited from Virtue/Moir’s return, which subsequently cleared the field of a lot of Canada’s senior dance teams. With that generation gone, there was space for them to have an immediate impact.

It’s all in the timing.

True but honestly the senior teams that retired weren’t that great.
La/La has already surpassed Soucisse and Firus and Lau/LeGac(already a recognized senior world team)

And I’d argue close on the heals on G/P and FBS/S

I still they would have had the rise they did, regardless of the senior team’s middling around the top 3 when V/M came back.

 

[trainingdogs82]

Lajoie and lagha had the stronger skating skills as well even ben agosto admited it, even if bock win the world title this year its the last hurrah for them, even if they stick around one more with there greatest even there not gonna repeat Marie france will go all in for her canadian teams next year, and no amount of us politicking will change the outcome. two medals in montreal next year the canadanes and lala.

Are you just assuming Gilles & Poirier are retiring? I think there is almost no chance that happens with worlds in Montreal next year. Maybe after Montreal worlds depending on everything, but no way before then, particularly with some great results this season.

In fact even in a worst case scenario Gilles & Poirier were to miss worlds (very unlikely IMO) or not medal at worlds (still unlikely) this season, I think it is still almost a lock they would be at worlds next year with it being in Montreal. Only a chronic injury would ever stop that.

 

[Colonel Green]

Are you just assuming Gilles & Poirier are retiring? I think there is almost no chance that happens with worlds in Montreal next year. Maybe after Montreal worlds depending on everything, but no way before then, particularly with some great results this season.

In fact even in a worst case scenario Gilles & Poirier were to miss worlds (very unlikely IMO) or not medal at worlds (still unlikely) this season, I think it is still almost a lock they would be at worlds next year with it being in Montreal. Only a chronic injury would ever stop that.

I think the only way Gilles & Poirier don't continue on to Montreal at this point is if they win Worlds this year and are ready to be done. Which has gotten less likely with them missing Four Continents, obviously.

 

[Dobre]

I guess that makes sense.

I love Green & Parsons but it makes me gnash my teeth that they could get that high when Marjorie & Zach don't have the chance.

Green & Parsons didn't have the chance last season and were stronger than Marjorie & Zach all that year. L&L have had multiple opportunities to compete at Worlds + an Olympics while their comparable competition could not attend.

Anyway, while I do think Green & Parsons are capable of competing with Turkkila & Versluis and Reed & Ambrulevicius, I don't expect it to happen. It will be G&P's first year at Worlds. Worlds is a LOT. That first experience is something you simply have to do in order to understand the environment. And on top of that Hawayek & Baker may not make it, which would place a lot of extra pressure on the younger U.S. teams who did not get anywhere near the set up that H&B have had over the past quadrennium. I felt for G&P at Nationals, as it had to be mentally rough to have the team they were chasing suddenly out and yet everyone under the sun chasing you. Anyway, I think G&P have good ice coverage and are very capable of earning higher footwork levels than T&V and R&A; but T&V have classic lines that bring in the GOE and R&A have a great FD. They've both been there before. G&P will be getting the experience for the first time, and usually a certain amount of learning needs to happen before teams have the confidence to reach their potential at Worlds. Particularly, if the berths for the following season are actually dependent upon where those young teams finish. (Lopareva & Brissaud will be somewhat in that position as well, though they went to one Worlds. Still 20-21 was a weird year).

 

[thvu]

A year is a long time. It’s not easy to train and live as a world class athlete. If Piper and Paul win Worlds, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they retired. It’s not even a given that they stay if they don’t win.

 

[topaz]

A year is a long time. It’s not easy to train and live as a world class athlete. If Piper and Paul win Worlds, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they retired. It’s not even a given that they stay if they don’t win.

True, but a chance to go out on top in your home country's worlds. That's some real motivation for Piper and Paul.

Honestly, the way Laurence/Nick skated the FD at 4 continents, they have a shot a the podium. Heck, Nick was talking about reworking some items in the FD because "They want to win a world title".

 

[topaz]

I'm going to look into my crystal ball and make prediction. I think Laurence/Nick have a legit shot at the podium.

The Italians have the most difficult program of any team(outside of L/L) in my opinion. The intricate/difficult transitions and holds throughout both their programs are really excellent. However, they lack that "IT" performance quality and some charisma on the ice. If Laurence/Nick can achieve level 4/3 on all their elements they have a good chance of outscoring the Italians in PCS.

 

[Karen-W]

A year is a long time. It’s not easy to train and live as a world class athlete. If Piper and Paul win Worlds, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they retired. It’s not even a given that they stay if they don’t win.

I sort of think the same way with regard to Gilles/Poirier. They didn't make the decision to stay in this season until very, very late - and actually surprised many of us here because they'd kind of hinted they were leaning toward retiring. If they don't win Worlds this year, especially against the IAM teams like Chock/Bates, Fournier Beaudry/Soerensen and Fear/Gibson coming on even stronger for a Worlds in their home/training town, they might feel like retiring on the high of a World silver this year.

 

[Dobre]

I think they'll stay through Montreal at least.

Skate Canada keeps people in forever.

 

[trainingdogs82]

I think the only way Gilles & Poirier don't continue on to Montreal at this point is if they win Worlds this year and are ready to be done. Which has gotten less likely with them missing Four Continents, obviously.

True, I could see maybe then. But I could also see that giving them more impetus to try for a home country worlds in Montreal next year. It is hard to say.

I guess it will be interesting to see what Gilles & Poirier do regardless. Chock & Bates too to some extent.

 

[BlueRidge]

Green & Parsons didn't have the chance last season and were stronger than Marjorie & Zach all that year. L&L have had multiple opportunities to compete at Worlds + an Olympics while their comparable competition could not attend.

I wasn't actually making an argument just expressing my emotions. I was just disappointed that they don't get to go. Its just how things work. It just seems like they should be there and have the chance this year. Its unusual for Canada not to have the spot for them to go. Its not unfair, just irritating that it is the reality.

all y'all are way more serious about arguing stuff than I anticipate...this happens all the time

 

[Cayuse]

all y'all are way more serious about arguing stuff than I anticipate...this happens all the time

It's the constant DEBATE in FSU that makes it fun to follow along!

 

[BlueRidge]

It's the constant DEBATE in FSU that makes it fun to follow along!

Indeed!

As far as the debate, my position is its just the breaks that LaLa don't get to go to Worlds. Its disappointing to their fans because in almost any other year Canada would have another spot. This would have been a good year for them to be competing at Worlds. Particularly against direct competitors like GrePar, but it has nothing to do with any unfairness or Green & Parsons getting some unfair advantage. Its just how it is and its too bad!

Now given that Canada only got two spots last year, one might have thought this would portend a changing of the guard in Canadian ice dance, giving LaLa a chance to move up. And LaLa certainly did what they needed to do, but GilPo and FB&S recharged and went all out. I'm particularly impressed with how FB&S upped their game, but that's true of GilPo as well. So I am happy to have been able to see that even if it gave no opening to Marjorie & Zach for this year.

 

[skategal]

I love all the top 3 Canadian dance teams but LaLa is the only one I can watch without fear that they will splat or make a major mistake.

They are all different and I appreciate them all so much for different reasons.

FB/S have my heart though.
Me watching FB/S

 

[BlueRidge]

I love all the top 3 Canadian dance teams but LaLa is the only one I can watch without fear that they will splat or make a major mistake.

They are all different and I appreciate them all so much for different reasons.

FB/S have my heart though.
Me watching FB/S

Try being a fan of Chock & Bates. I'm debating whether I can watch worlds. I mean yeah they are doing great lately, but history...long history...

Early in the season everyone was talking about this being a year like 2014 with a close competition and a surprise winner. I'm thinking how (skate gods do not listen) imagine if that surprise is FB&S?

 

[skategal]

Try being a fan of Chock & Bates. I'm debating whether I can watch worlds. I mean yeah they are doing great lately, but history...long history...

Early in the season everyone was talking about this being a year like 2014 with a close competition and a surprise winner. I'm thinking how (skate gods do not listen) imagine if that surprise is FB&S?

I’m kind of glad it’s in Japan and I most likely won’t be able to watch live.

 

[clairecloutier]

My take from Skate America & 4CCs is that Chock/Bates are better than a lot of people are giving them credit for. I’m so impressed with the refinement of their line and unison this season; every moment is like a picture. Their gala number was lovely.

FB/S are great too, as are L/L. I really loved seeing both their free dances back-to-back in practice, very beautiful.

I have to say though, watching live, the female ice dancer who stands out almost the most to me is Caroline Green. What’s unique about Caroline (to me, anyway) is that she skates very “big.” She feels very powerful on her own terms, independent of Michael. I don’t know where G/P will place at Worlds, but I do think, from their GOE/PCS, that the judges respect them a lot and rightfully so. The areas to work on for them right now are details and consistency and connection.

ETA: Carreira/Ponomarenko also impressed with their new elegance and maturity. Great improvement from the last time I saw them live, at last year’s Nationals. The dominant vibe of both their programs is this sort of mid-century old-school-type glamour, which suits them very well IMO.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Me watching FB/S

Same! In some ways, I wish they were still a top ten rather than top 5 team, as that was less anxiety-inducing.

 

[sap5]

Anyway, while I do think Green & Parsons are capable of competing with Turkkila & Versluis and Reed & Ambrulevicius, I don't expect it to happen. It will be G&P's first year at Worlds. Worlds is a LOT. That first experience is something you simply have to do in order to understand the environment. And on top of that Hawayek & Baker may not make it, which would place a lot of extra pressure on the younger U.S. teams who did not get anywhere near the set up that H&B have had over the past quadrennium. I felt for G&P at Nationals, as it had to be mentally rough to have the team they were chasing suddenly out and yet everyone under the sun chasing you. Anyway, I think G&P have good ice coverage and are very capable of earning higher footwork levels than T&V and R&A; but T&V have classic lines that bring in the GOE and R&A have a great FD. They've both been there before. G&P will be getting the experience for the first time, and usually a certain amount of learning needs to happen before teams have the confidence to reach their potential at Worlds. Particularly, if the berths for the following season are actually dependent upon where those young teams finish. (Lopareva & Brissaud will be somewhat in that position as well, though they went to one Worlds. Still 20-21 was a weird year).

At Charlie White's first Worlds, he and Meryl ended up in 7th place. Maybe he knows what to say/do to help Green/Parsons place very high as well.

 

[BlueRidge]

Same! In some ways, I wish they were still a top ten rather than top 5 team, as that was less anxiety-inducing.

Don't tell anyone I said this, but I kind of feel that way about Marjorie and Zachary not being at Worlds. No anxiety.

 

[nuge]

I have to say though, watching live, the female ice dancer who stands out almost the most to me is Caroline Green. What’s unique about Caroline (to me, anyway) is that she skates very “big.” She feels very powerful on her own terms, independent of Michael. I don’t know where G/P will place at Worlds, but I do think, from their GOE/PCS, that the judges respect them a lot and rightfully so. The areas to work on for them right now are details and consistency and connection.

ETA: Carreira/Ponomarenko also impressed with their new elegance and maturity. Great improvement from the last time I saw them live, at last year’s Nationals. The dominant vibe of both their programs is this sort of mid-century old-school-type glamour, which suits them very well IMO.

The Skating lesson say different. Caroline skates small because of the height. They disliked C/P too.I actually thought Christina Anthony were great this year.

 

[chameleonster]

The Skating lesson say different. Caroline skates small because of the height. They disliked C/P too.I actually thought Christina Anthony were great this year.

The Skating Lesson says a lot of things, and are entitled to their opinions but. Well, let's just say we often disagree.


I really am looking forward to seeing the battle for 6th-10th. All teams with different strengths and styles. The teams that just miss the top ten will be fabulous as well, and there are a number of rematches I'll be interested in seeing. Turkkila/Versluis are on a serious rise this season, and I'll be interested in seeing where this is going at worlds.

 

[miffy]

It is really sad L/L can’t go. They have come on so much this season.

Meanwhile GB have wasted our 2nd spot as we didn’t have anyone else to send Canada might as well have had it…

 

[litenkyckling]

The Skating lesson say different. Caroline skates small because of the height. They disliked C/P too.I actually thought Christina Anthony were great this year.

Ha TSL have literally 0 dance knowledge anyway - they rarely have nice things to say, rarely make time to talk about dance and when they do they never seem to enjoy the teams that dance fans really love (if that makes sense?).