The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

[chantilly]

Random ice dance comment.
Watching the US Ice Dance competition I taped yesterday and The Shibs were there to receive a Hall of Fame induction.
Shocked to hear Alex state his age as 31!
They still look like teenagers.
Not exaggerating if I was their server at a restaurant I’d card them both and then doubt the validity of their ID’s
Anyway great for them.

US ice dance is in great shape.

Lots of great teams in the top 7-8.

I still think C/B FD has an issue in the middle. It just for me loses momentum or interest.
There are some beautiful moves and movement. It just for me doesn’t seem to work as a whole.
They also really IMO drop the performance on the twizzles and step sequences.
G/P we’re lovely and while I think the program choreo is ok, it’s not outstanding. However they do deliver it very well.
I have to go back and watch again but I think I too preferred Zingas and partner. They definitely have something special.

I do like C/P too especially since I’m loving seeing Scott and Madison as their coaches, but they aren’t standing out to me as fierce competition in the next generation.
Time will tell, but for me personally there are more interesting and better teams coming up.

Excited to see the showdown(if it happens) between G/P and C/B at 4CC

 

[Andora]

I actually like that there isn't a team running away with every competition. Equally competitive teams makes for a more exciting competition. 2014 Worlds where the podium was decided by fractions was fun to watch.

Agreed.

What I would love is to know who the judges are going to decide is the top team, so I can better manage expectations when a team with great skating skills isn't marked accordingly vs. a more acrobatic team. Like, what direction is ice dance judging going in?

If you imagine Charlene as a gothic witch or better yet a scorpion, it might be more interesting to you. I'm just so happy it is not a soft and flow (my computer refuses to let me type a "y" after word "flow") program! I'm loving the return of more dramatic programs this year. Lots of great ones at Euros.

I loooooove G&F's FD. But I love goth-ish music, and I'm just happy they're doing this theme justice.

I do think G&F are just too introverted (for Italians) compared to other current top teams. Madison Chock and Piper Gilles will straight up devour the audience and could probably sell ice to folks living in arctic conditions.

 

[VGThuy]

A fan cam from Project Runway alum Nick Verreos of Maia and Alex accepting their Hall of Fame honors:

Nick Verreos on Instagram: "FIGURE SKATING HALL OF FAME 🥇🥇The OUTSTANDING @maiashibutani @alexshibutani @shibsibs Induction into the @usfigureskating Hall of Fame ⛸️ T the 2023 US Figure Skating Championships #ToyotaUSChamps @sapcenter #sanjose"

44 Likes, 1 Comments - Nick Verreos (@nickverreos) on Instagram: "FIGURE SKATING HALL OF FAME 🥇🥇The OUTSTANDING @maiashibutani @alexshibutani @shibsibs Induction into the @usfigureskating Hall of Fame ⛸️ T the 2023 US Figure Skating Championships #ToyotaUSChamps @sapcenter #sanjose"

www.instagram.com

 

[topaz]

European Ice Dance gave me LIFE this weekend. What an incredible competition. Hell, I may be taking myself to next year's Euros.

 

[PRlady]

I really thought I would prefer US Nats dance to Euro dance but it was the other way ‘round. The contrast in styles at Euros was fabulous. And a couple of the US teams (Pate/Bye, Flores) had serious errors. But getting to see both (thanks to good scheduling by US!) was such a treat.

I feel sorry for Pairs fans these days. Dance is really Russians, who?

 

[Spikefan]

European Ice Dance gave me LIFE this weekend. What an incredible competition. Hell, I may be taking myself to next year's Euros.

Next year there will be even more intriguing teams. So happy France got the third spot and Czech/Finland a second. Then the junior GBR team going senior.

 

[Colonel Green]

With Piper & Paul missing 4CC due to her surgery, we now have a bronze medal battle of Home Country Advantage vs. Most Powerful Coaches Advantage.

 

[deegee]

With Piper & Paul missing 4CC due to her surgery, we now have a bronze medal battle of Home Country Advantage vs. Most Powerful Coaches Advantage.

while i do wish piper a full recovery, part of me is hopeful that this means that i won't have to live in a world where piper gilles has a world gold and madison hubbell does not.

 

[cris]

while i do wish piper a full recovery, part of me is hopeful that this means that i won't have to live in a world where piper gilles has a world gold and madison hubbell does not.

Completely agree. Just that a world where Chock has a gold medal and Hubbell doesn't is in no way better.

 

[skategal]

Hubbell could have had a gold medal this season if they had decided to stay one more year.

It was their decision not to so they must be okay with that.

 

[kwanfan1818]

If you knew how much she was not made of drama, lol.
"competent but bland", uncharismatic", "transparent, especially compared to her partner" were the compliments made to her dramatic skills throughout her junior career.

I remember how pissed off Moir was when they were edged out by Wing/Lowe in 2006 for an Olympic team spot. But Virtue looked juniorish particularly in the Latin SD and especially compared to Moir, who even then had the "it" factor, which was so obvious in le Mercier when I saw them live in Richmond, and Demougeot was as described, which was appropriate, since she was a junior. It's so much harder on the woman when the man has "it" and the woman is still developing, while a male partner can be the lift and carry guy, as long as the woman shines, and he doesn't fall over.

.. Until she is ready. All that in Villard's style which is to live the music, not act on it. First results started to be visible last year.

Which is such good coaching to see that one partner might be precocious, but that the other will catch up, and to have the patience to develop them. Demougeot's come into her own this season.

 

[deegee]

Hubbell could have had a gold medal this season if they had decided to stay one more year.

It was their decision not to so they must be okay with that.

sure, but why couldn't they have considered my feelings this one time

 

[deegee]

Completely agree. Just that a world where Chock has a gold medal and Hubbell doesn't is in no way better.

true, but i feel like g/f have a fighting chance for gold if g/p struggle with lack of training, etc.

 

[Andora]

I don't think H&D had it in them to go another year. They may have been ready for a break from each other, too. They're pursuing different lives, he went and got married PDQ, etc.

They may each have times they're not okay with it, but I think they're more at peace than not. And Madison can certainly channel any lingering feelings she has about retiring into her coaching.

true, but i feel like g/f have a fighting chance for gold if g/p struggle with lack of training, etc.

G&P looked so ready at the beginning of the season. That can be hard to maintain, so hopefully an upside to her surgery is they're better able to peak at worlds, and have an excellent foundation. But...

No disrespect to G&P and C&B, but I am kinda hoping G&F can squeak out a win at worlds. C&B are my second choice (bad Canadian, I know...)

 

[yurokis40]

I think its smart to skip 4cc canadian ice dance teams get historically lowballed there that saps their momentum weaver and poje anyone. I`m sure Gilles and Poirier will be at worlds, this gives another chance to showcase lauriaut and legac who are having a great season. BTW i think LALA can surprise and win silver there.

 

[VGThuy]

I don't mind Piper having a world title even if it means Madison Hubbell, a skater who I consider superior in terms of edges and power, doesn’t have one because 1) Hubbell isn’t competing this year while Gilles is, and 2) I’ve liked G/P’s FDs more in the past five years than I have of H/D’s during their last four seasons.

 

[chantilly]

I don't mind Piper having a world title even if it means Madison Hubbell, a skater who I consider superior in terms of edges and power, doesn’t have one because 1) Hubbell isn’t competing this year while Gilles is, and 2) I’ve liked G/P’s FDs more in the past five years than I have of H/D’s during their last four seasons.

My feelings as well.

H/D were also competing against, arguably two of the best ice dancing teams of all time in the last decade.

Winning a gold medal was pretty challenging(although I think it’d be a cakewalk for them now if they were competing)

They also suffered from mistakes at crucial times and sadly poor material or material that didn’t work IMO.

Their last season was their best in a long while based on all the things I’ve stated above.

 

[trainingdogs82]

I don't mind Piper having a world title even if it means Madison Hubbell, a skater who I consider superior in terms of edges and power, doesn’t have one because 1) Hubbell isn’t competing this year while Gilles is, and 2) I’ve liked G/P’s FDs more in the past five years than I have of H/D’s during their last four seasons.

Yes IMO Hubbell & Donohue had struggled with their packaging ever since 2018, where their programs were perfectly suited to their strengths and their look, but they did not build from there in that regard.

And this is also just talking about the womens respective skills, but Paul is probably a stronger skater than Zach if we are being real.

 

[deegee]

but g/p have had some duds the last quad, too (the fd after 'vincent' that felt like a rehash of 'vincent', both of their programs last year plus that AWFUL rd outfit, and this year's programs are fine but nothing to write home about). and the thing that h/d never have had to struggle with is their command of their skills. for me, g/p have been fortunate to have packaging and choreography that elevates their team's skill sets in a way that the skills themselves don't elevate them.

(i hope we're all recognizing that we're sharing personal reflections about skaters at the very top of their field. by no means am i saying gilles can't skate)

 

[chantilly]

but g/p have had some duds the last quad, too (the fd after 'vincent' that felt like a rehash of 'vincent', both of their programs last year plus that AWFUL rd outfit, and this year's programs are fine but nothing to write home about). and the thing that h/d never have had to struggle with is their command of their skills. for me, g/p have been fortunate to have packaging and choreography that elevates their team's skill sets in a way that the skills themselves don't elevate them.

(i hope we're all recognizing that we're sharing personal reflections about skaters at the very top of their field. by no means am i saying gilles can't skate)

Ice dancing is a competitive and judged sport.

H/D yes have more power and deeper edges. But they didn’t always compete well.

They actually lost IMO fair and square at Skate Canada one season.
I saw it live and H/D were throwing up snow a lot in their FD.

And they had mistakes in crucial moments. How is that having command of their skills.

And Gilles isn’t as inferior as some want us to believe.

Ice Dance is about the whole of the package.

Skating skills are only one part of skating.

I’ve liked all of G/P’s programs last few years except for last year.

As for this years material being “ nothing to write home about “ well I couldn’t disagree with you more.

I think it’s their best work yet. Vincent for me is a close second.

And like someone said above Paul is a superior skater to Zach. It’s been said by many an expert.
So then to me they are even in skills.

 

[dancefan17]

Did we ever find out which country Smart/Dieck are representing? Or did I miss the announcement?

 

[chantilly]

Did we ever find out which country Smart/Dieck are representing? Or did I miss the announcement?

I think it was pretty sure Germany. But I don’t remember if it was ever 100% confirmed

 

[Karen-W]

Did we ever find out which country Smart/Dieck are representing? Or did I miss the announcement?

I think it was pretty sure Germany. But I don’t remember if it was ever 100% confirmed

Nothing has been announced by either of them yet.

 

[sap5]

I don't mind Piper having a world title even if it means Madison Hubbell, a skater who I consider superior in terms of edges and power, doesn’t have one because 1) Hubbell isn’t competing this year while Gilles is, and 2) I’ve liked G/P’s FDs more in the past five years than I have of H/D’s during their last four seasons.

I don't mind Madi Hubbell not having one because I'm loving how she's jumped into coaching. I hope that she will be able to earn many world titles as a coach in the near future.

 

[litenkyckling]

I actually really admire the way that Madi and Zach retired - they knew that they could go for a world title but were also happy and content with what they had achieved. I think the key is that they knew when they’d had their time and that their achievements were altogether enough for them.

 

[Dobre]

Cross-posting(ish) from the Bavarian Open thread:

Grimm & Savitskiy win the junior event.

Neset & Markelov's powerful pirate program finishes over the adorable nutcracker program in the free. (Both great programs, IMO).

Bekker & Hernandez take the bronze, with a 2/3 split between the RD and FD.

Tali & Frasca come 4th in both dances.

And Kishimoto & Tamura hold on for 5th place.

Interesting mix of results we have heading into Junior Worlds.

 

[Andrea82]

I see that Yuri Kliushynkov (Azerbaijan) fell in love with Neset/Markelov's FD in the last two months.
He went from giving them 6.5 in all Components at Santa Claus Cup to 7.75-8.00 today
PCS for N/M raised from 42.5 to 44.78 between SCC and BO. Yuri jumped from 39.0 (lowest of the Santa Claus panel) to 47.0 (highest of Bavarian open, outscoring the US judge).

Cross-posting(ish) from the Bavarian Open thread:

Grimm & Savitskiy win the junior event.

Neset & Markelov's powerful pirate program finishes over the adorable nutcracker program in the free. (Both great programs, IMO).

Bekker & Hernandez take the bronze, with a 2/3 split between the RD and FD.

Tali & Frasca come 4th in both dances.

And Kishimoto & Tamura hold on for 5th place.

Interesting mix of results we have heading into Junior Worlds.

Mrazek siblings are set to compete at Egna Trophy next week.
Simova/Aksenov will also be there in the Junior event after a couple of months of skating seniors.
Kudryavtseva/Karankevich are heading the Ephesus Cup junior lineup.

The desperate quest for Senior Worlds TES race is on.
Verhaegh/Van Geffen and new Belgian team Shilling/Baeten came very close at Bavarian Open.
Shilling/Baeten will try again in Egna next week. Jakucs/Galli will also try there.
Verhaegh/Van Geffen are set for Ephesus Cup.

Then I would suppose everybody will do Challenge Cup as last opportunity.

Sassi/Morini, Bjorkli/Koszuta and Zaroian/Grudev arę the other teams with a realistic prospect (all missing RD score). Sassi/Morini are not named in the announcement of Swiss World team (not even with the *TES pending like the Men sub). So I would suppose they aren't trying to get it.

 

[Dobre]

Who is aging up besides Bashynska & Beaumont?

 

[Andrea82]

Who is aging up besides Bashynska & Beaumont?

Also Lim/Quan, Bekker/Hernandez, SImova/Aksenov

 

[Dobre]

Thanks, @Andrea82 .

Current World Standings placements from which these teams need to/would need to pull up in order to make the top 24 for guaranteed berths on the GP:

Bashynska & Beaumont: 26th.
Lim & Quan: 31st.
Bekker & Hernandez: 44th.
Simova & Aksenov: 47th.

(As far a SB scores go, the highest ranked current junior score is Mrazkova & Mrazek's home score from JGP Czech Skate. Currently 25th. The next is Bashynska & Beaumont in 31st. Junior teams still face a substantial point deficit via the current scoring system).