The aftermath of DG's resignation - what next for the FFSG?

[VarBar]

In other news Nathalie Péchalat is running for President of the FFSG : here is the L'Equipe article. Gwendal Peizerat is surprised, doesn't know yet if he will run against her (source).

Hmm, I thought the newer generation would stand firm behind Gwendal because being divided doesn't help them at all. The article says Nathalie enjoys the support of some of the sports leagues and skating clubs and I have to wonder if it's the same skating clubs that voted for Didier when Gwendal ran against him.

I personally don't trust Nathalie because of her husband's ties with Polanski and possibly others like him. I'm afraid the Old Guard might be trying to just use her for damage control, in order to save what can still be saved. Hopefully she will prove me wrong if she wins the election.

 

[Dobre]

Ucar won the election to be the athletes' representative but Pechalat was placed on it initially instead, which I read was because he was still competing. (It was kind of odd because we hadn't heard prior to the election that competing athletes couldn't serve, though of course it makes sense that they would have less time).

 

[Orm Irian]

Gabi Papadakis has placed her support behind Nathalie Pechalat's candidacy.

 

[PRlady]

Nothing new in here for us but another example of unusually prominent media coverage: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...mail&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_opinions

 

[Nmsis]

Hmm, I thought the newer generation would stand firm behind Gwendal because being divided doesn't help them at all. The article says Nathalie enjoys the support of some of the sports leagues and skating clubs

The schedule is tight :

- Somewhere between the 20th and the 26/27th of february : results of the administrative inquiries from the Sport Ministry

- By the 28th/29th of february, all the candicacies should be sent to the FFSG.

- March 14 : General Assembly of the FFSG and elections for the Conseil Fédéral (4 people quitted as Gailhaguet wasn't leaving) and the President.

I think Peizerat (and the group of skaters he is part of) is waiting for the Ministry to give its conclusions and then will adapt the strategy. Enter the race or build something else.

I think this early Pechalat candidacy iis meant to try to save the FFSG, to tell the Ministry before it takes a decision : think of me as the solution. I'm the consensual candidate that will be able to bring the clubs together toward a renewal. Don't blast it and let me do it. Consider that before you issue your conclusions.

I'm not found of the manner (she was part of the group) and I'm not found of the goal.

The Sport Ministry has THE occasion to set things right. Gailhaguet has been threatened by multiple ministers who disliked him very much. But during his presidencies, he has met 11 Sports Ministers. He "outlived" every single one of them.
So right now, there is one who is willing to fight the fight and has the momentum to clean the fed.
And as it is now, the next president will have next to no power, unless s/he asks the General Assembly another General Assembly to revoke the Conseil Fédéral and vote for a new one who will be able to revoke the members of the Bureau Exécutif and vote for new ones. All of this with a good representation of the clubs at the Assembly, otherwise the vote is invalid.
That's A LOT of procedures, A LOT of "if", A LOT of places for people who want to derail things or stay in power to block or deviate the machine.

Péchalat never had to fight the Gailhaguet system.
Those who are cautious did. They came in good faith and lost against it.
At least, wait until the Ministry give its conclusions instead of pushing its hand in one direction.
Now, the presidents of the club are going to be thankful to Nathalie because fundamentally, they are not revolutionaries.

 

[Orm Irian]

I dunno. Whether the administrative inquiry says that the FFSG can continue as the French ice sports federation or that it cannot, it will need a president in place - to lead it into the future and do the necessary house-cleaning, or to handle the legal winding-up of the organisation. Pechalat might as well put her name forward now as later.

 

[Nmsis]

Laetitia Hubert has given an interview, saying she told her club and the Fed about Beyer in 1994 (harassment, physical violence) and again in 2000 when the administrative inquiry about Beyer happened.
So she doesn't feel a special need to talk about it now since she already did. And she focuses on what should be done to prevent those violences in the future.

An ice dancer, Isabelle Sarech recounts how she was raped by her coach identified as Gérard G. in the 80s when she was 16yo. She is slightly older than Peizerat. Here she is at the Trophée Lalique.



There has also been a lot of testimonies in other sports : swimming, handball, rock climbing, horse riding, ...



There is also an article in L'Equipe about Péchalat's project, about giving more importance to "the other sports" within the federation, ie speed skating/short-track, curling and bobsleigh/luge/skeleton and keeping the current FFSG management team more or less as it is.

 

[hanca]

Wow, the list of the girls and the rapes...I have no words. Clearly we are not talking about the age of consent being a bit foggy, if the girls were raped. That makes me wonder whether Cipres with his penis picture, did he really realise that it was wrong to send it? If he was growing up in a culture where all this is going around him, it may be that the picture seemed quite harmless to him. (I am not trying to make excuses for him, but his behaviour in context of what is happening. Our values are formed by what we observe around us, and what we see happening becomes our ‘normal’ ).

 

[Orm Irian]

That makes me wonder whether Cipres with his penis picture, did he really realise that it was wrong to send it? If he was growing up in a culture where all this is going around him, it may be that the picture seemed quite harmless to him.

He certainly seems to have grown up in a culture (and specifically a club) where this sort of behaviour was normalised among older male coaches, but it's important to remember, too, that so did a lot of other male French skaters of his generation, and so far as we know, none of those male skaters - in pairs, dance or singles - has as yet had similar allegations made against them. Because they may have come up steeped in similar atmospheres, but they had other people and society at large telling them that that sort of behaviour was not okay, and that women were people not targets, and they also had their own better natures, and so far as we can tell they appear to have paid attention to those, kept their egos and senses of entitlement under control, and grown up into decent human beings who do not abuse children. Just like all the drunk male skaters at that party who did not crawl into teenage Ashley Wagner's bed while she was sleeping and attempt to rape her.

Cultures can definitely enable people who already have a tendency to become rapists and abusers, but I'm afraid they don't create them out of whole cloth except in some very extreme circumstances. These circumstances were horrific and completely unacceptable, but they weren't that particular kind of extreme.

 

[ivagall]

There is also an article in L'Equipe about Péchalat's project, about giving more importance to "the other sports" within the federation, ie speed skating/short-track, curling and bobsleigh/luge/skeleton and keeping the current FFSG management team more or less as it is.

I can't read the article, but this bit makes it sound like Péchelat becoming president would pretty much change nothing within the FFSG, when there clearly is a lot to be changed.

 

[hanca]

He certainly seems to have grown up in a culture (and specifically a club) where this sort of behaviour was normalised among older male coaches, but it's important to remember, too, that so did a lot of other male French skaters of his generation, and so far as we know, none of those male skaters - in pairs, dance or singles - has as yet had similar allegations made against them. Because they may have come up steeped in similar atmospheres, but they had other people and society at large telling them that that sort of behaviour was not okay, and that women were people not targets, and they also had their own better natures, and so far as we can tell they appear to have paid attention to those, kept their egos and senses of entitlement under control, and grown up into decent human beings who do not abuse children. Just like all the drunk male skaters at that party who did not crawl into teenage Ashley Wagner's bed while she was sleeping and attempt to rape her.

Cultures can definitely enable people who already have a tendency to become rapists and abusers, but I'm afraid they don't create them out of whole cloth except in some very extreme circumstances. These circumstances were horrific and completely unacceptable, but they weren't that particular kind of extreme.

I am not saying that he didn’t know that raping a woman is wrong; what I meant is that his values regarding any smaller sexual offences (e.g. sending sexual material) may have been a bit skewed. After all, if in their culture men not only sleep with girls and boys of any age, but are not even worried about sharing this info publicly and publishing a book about it; in comparison sending pictures may seem like nothing.

Saying that other current French male skaters are growing in the same culture and don’t have any allegations made against them, that doesn’t mean much at this stage. How many of them have been training abroad? If some of them sent pictures like that in France, would the girls come forward, or would they consider it normal? Furthermore, take notice that the girls who are coming forward are mostly skaters from years ago. The current female skaters are still quiet. Is it because it is not happening any more, or is it because they are more worried about their skating careers? (Personally, I think it is the latter, and that may also explain why the current French male skaters don’t have similar allegations against them, at this moment. The difference with Cipres is that he did it abroad and the society there doesn’t consider that acceptable, whereas in France it has been accepted.)

 

[Nmsis]

He certainly seems to have grown up in a culture (and specifically a club) where this sort of behaviour was normalised among older male coaches

Morgan Ciprès grew up within the club of Dammarie-les-Lys, 40 km south-east of Paris, with his coach Claude Péri.
He was 19yo when he left for Paris and Les Français Volants club.
He spent 4 years there, then left for Russia for a season.
He came back for a season then left for Florida (in 2016)

 

[okokok777]

Wow, the list of the girls and the rapes...I have no words. Clearly we are not talking about the age of consent being a bit foggy, if the girls were raped. That makes me wonder whether Cipres with his penis picture, did he really realise that it was wrong to send it? If he was growing up in a culture where all this is going around him, it may be that the picture seemed quite harmless to him. (I am not trying to make excuses for him, but his behaviour in context of what is happening. Our values are formed by what we observe around us, and what we see happening becomes our ‘normal’ ).

I think it's important to note that there are other allegations against Cipres that have yet to made public (it looks like the information will be periodically released by media sources upon approval by Andrea Lewis).

but it's important to remember, too, that so did a lot of other male French skaters of his generation, and so far as we know, none of those male skaters - in pairs, dance or singles - has as yet had similar allegations made against them.

There have been other allegations made against other French male skaters of his generation - they just haven't been made public yet. There are also French male skaters of his generation who grew up in similar environments who have expressed disgust at that behavior. The circumstances around Cipres' case are a bit extraordinary due to the mountain of evidence (including confessions) proving his guilt & the fact that at least some of act happened in the US.

Cultures can definitely enable people who already have a tendency to become rapists and abusers, but I'm afraid they don't create them out of whole cloth except in some very extreme circumstances. These circumstances were horrific and completely unacceptable, but they weren't that particular kind of extreme.

I 100% agree with this assertion regarding the relationship between actions, atmosphere and culture - while it can enable people who are already predisposed to abusing others, it does not "create" abusers.

 

[hanca]

I 100% agree with this assertion regarding the relationship between actions, atmosphere and culture - while it can enable people who are already predisposed to abusing others, it does not "create" abusers.

I absolutely agree with that. I don’t want my post to be interpreted that I am looking for any mitigating circumstances for Cipres or excusing his behaviour. I am just trying to understand how it could have come to it. The bottom line is, what he did is wrong and there should be consequences for his actions.

 

[okokok777]

There is also an article in L'Equipe about Péchalat's project, about giving more importance to "the other sports" within the federation, ie speed skating/short-track, curling and bobsleigh/luge/skeleton and keeping the current FFSG management team more or less as it is.

Here is a machine translation of the pertinent sections:

The announcement of Péchalat's candidacy caught some of her former comrades on the French team off guard, who thought they could count on her assistance to the assembled collective to propose a project to overhaul the Federation (with Gwendal Peizerat, Philippe Candeloro and Sarah Abitbol, one of the skaters who accused Gilles Beyer, former national trainer, of rape and sexual assault ...): "We are surprised but we support it, even if it's a bit unorthodox" ,commented Peizerat, who ran unsuccessfully for the presidency in 2014. "Nathalie disassociated herself from this collective from the start," said those around her, explaining that the champion remains silent for the moment,in order to "work your program".

One of Péchalat's ideas is to make more room for the small disciplines of the Federation of ice sports (luge, bobsleigh, curling ...), which would be hardly compatible, according to her, with a group of skaters. She would also have no intention of undertaking a major clean-up within the FFSG and would therefore keep the team put in place by Gailhaguet, to ensure broad support. Which also shows a certain sense of realpolitik.

The following section of a RMC Sport article gives a bit more context to Peizerat's reaction:

However, for the past two weeks, a group of several athletes from different FFSG sports has been reactivated after the various sexual scandals that have affected skating. "A resistance group," as Gwendal Peizerat calls it, "made up of about fifteen people to propose a project to overhaul the Federation. Nathalie was part of it, she decided to launch herself into this huge project alone. We're surprised, but we're encouraging it, even if it's a bit maverick.

I'm not going to lie - I think that Nathalie's plan to retain most of the FFSG management team is awful & the "surprise" campaign announcement makes me deeply uncomfortable. The entire system has to be overhauled and de-certification is the only effective path to change.

 

[Coco]

I was a fan of her dance and am a fan of her commentary, but hasn't she worked with Didier for the past few years? I thought I remembered him defending himself by pointing to her efforts recently.

 

[Firedancer]

Here is a machine translation of the pertinent sections:



The following section of a RMC Sport article gives a bit more context to Peizerat's reaction:



I'm not going to lie - I think that Nathalie's plan to retain most of the FFSG management team is awful & the "surprise" campaign announcement makes me deeply uncomfortable. The entire system has to be overhauled and de-certification is the only effective path to change.

I agree with others. The people currently in place need to go or there will be no change.

 

[Orm Irian]

There have been other allegations made against other French male skaters of his generation - they just haven't been made public yet.

...to be honest, I should have anticipated that. There's always more than one.

 

[allezfred]

hasn't she worked with Didier for the past few years?

Well anybody who wants to be involved with ice sports in France has had to work with Didier Gailhaguet so if you were to disqualify on that basis....

 

[MsZem]

Has Pechalat actually laid out her vision and proposals for the FFSG, or has the coverage so far been mostly speculation?

I can't really see Papadakis getting behind a continuation of DG's approach, but maybe there's stuff I'm not aware of.

 

[okokok777]

I was a fan of her dance and am a fan of her commentary, but hasn't she worked with Didier for the past few years? I thought I remembered him defending himself by pointing to her efforts recently.

Nathalie Pechalat is the figure skating representative of Colosse aux pieds d'argile, an association that combats sexual violence in sports. During his pre-resignation press conference, Didier claimed that he was handling the issue of sexual abuse in figure skating and stated that he had implemented preventative actions & interventions through Colosse aux pieds d'argile. Later that day, the organization completely denied his comments and stated that Pechalat had been trying to make an intervention with Colosse aux pieds d'argile into the FFSG for 3 years - Didier rejected it and claimed that "We have no problems in our federation" (Source: February 5th L'Equipe Article)

Has Pechalat actually laid out her vision and proposals for the FFSG, or has the coverage so far been mostly speculation?

I can't really see Papadakis getting behind a continuation of DG's approach, but maybe there's stuff I'm not aware of.

According to a February 14 L'Equipe Article, her plans include:

One of Péchalat's ideas is to make more room for the small disciplines of the Federation of ice sports (luge, bobsleigh, curling ...), which would be hardly compatible, according to her, with a group of skaters. She would also have no intention of undertaking a major clean-up within the FFSG and would therefore keep the team put in place by Gailhaguet, to ensure broad support. Which also shows a certain sense of realpolitik.

 

[MsZem]

According to a February 14 L'Equipe Article, her plans include:

One of Péchalat's ideas is to make more room for the small disciplines of the Federation of ice sports (luge, bobsleigh, curling ...), which would be hardly compatible, according to her, with a group of skaters. She would also have no intention of undertaking a major clean-up within the FFSG and would therefore keep the team put in place by Gailhaguet, to ensure broad support. Which also shows a certain sense of realpolitik.

Yes, I saw that. That's doesn't really answer my question: has Pechalat stated anything about her plans, or is the information we have based on indirect knowledge/speculation? Because what you included in your post kind of sounds like someone might be trying to undermine her, rather than a representation of her own agenda.

 

[Coco]

Thanks @okokok777 , that is the story I was thinking about.

 

[okokok777]

Yes, I saw that. That's doesn't really answer my question: has Pechalat stated anything about her plans, or is the information we have based on indirect knowledge/speculation? Because what you included in your post kind of sounds like someone might be trying to undermine her, rather than a representation of her own agenda.

The article didn't state where they got that piece of information from. The people who were directly quoted in the article include:

- Didier Lucine (technical director of Annecy Skating Club and well-known critic of Gailhaguet - supports Nathalie)

- Pascal Girardot (president of Lyon Glace Patinage, one of the biggest figure skating clubs in France - supports Nathalie) He even compares her favorably with Gwendal:

Pascal Girardot, president of Lyon Glace Patinage, one of the biggest clubs in France, judges for example the position of the skater more consensual than that of Gwendal Peizerat, historical opponent of the former president and more distant from the skating world than Péchalat: "We must not build on hatred, but on awareness."

- Gwendal Peizerat

- Valentina Marchei (former Italian singles skater and pairs skater - supports Nathalie)

- Astrid Guyart (French fencer and friend of Nathalie - supports Nathalie)

- Sebastian Boueilh (founder of Colosse aux pieds d'argile - supports Nathalie)

The timing and surprise nature of Nathlie's announcement was already quite controversial. Here is an expansion on Gwendal's response:

The Olympic ice dance champion at the Salt Lake City Olympics was taken aback by this announcement. But the risk now of seeing several big names come face-to-face poses the question of the division of votes and a collective failure. As a new era begins for ice sports, we should not spoil everything for those who openly opposed the old system masterfully led by Didier Gailhaguet . "That's why, we will wait for the program and the project led by Nathalie and we will decide. If it suits us, we will not come face to face with it. For us, the important thing is the project", supports Gwendal Peizerat.

And here is an expansion of Philipe's response:

The surprise is shared by Philippe Candeloro , who belongs to the same working group: "We learned about the application from the press, it upsets us a bit because we worked together ... And we thought there would be a collective decision to to embark on this election. But I dare not imagine that it could go all alone in the mouth of the wolf. " Alban Préaubert, a former skater who had left the executive office in disagreement with Didier Gailhaguet's position , could be one of his supporters. He did not respond to our requests.

But Philippe Candeloro wonders: "I can't explain to myself that she could have gone there like that. So she may have been supported by a team in place who told her" We are ready to "welcome", I don't know ... In any case, she will have to surround herself with good people. " For the moment, Philippe Candeloro is not closing the door to a future candidacy: "It is not a decision to be taken lightly and if I were to go there tomorrow, it would be with my comrades but not against Nathalie."

She also received support from Maryvonne Del Torchio, interim president of the FFSG and president of the federal council:

One thing is certain, in front of Nathalie Péchalat, there will not be Maryvonne Del Torchio, president of the federal council and who heads the federation by interim after the resignation of Didier Gailhaguet, of whom she is a close friend. When contacted, she confirmed that we were only acting: "I am not running for president and I confirmed it to the minister yesterday. Nathalie's candidacy is excellent news and I will be ready to work alongside her if she asks me the request."

Source: BFMTV

Note: The "resistance group", which included Gwendal, Philipe, Nathalie and Sarah, were creating plans to rebuild the federation after de-certification. Another reason that Nathalie's announcement has been so controversial within certain groups is that certain people fear that it may sway the Ministry of Sports to not de-certify the FFSG since the Ministry hasn't announced the results of their investigation yet (i.e. Nathalie would be seen as a viable "third option"). TBH this, tied with the surprise campaign announcement and the fact that L'Equipe originally published the investigative report about sexual abuse in sports & has been frequently updating the public about the cases, makes me more inclined to believe the L'Equipe statements about her plans. However, I'm more than willing to listen to any direct announcements that she makes about her actions, decisions & plans.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think Pechalat's pivot is a slicker version of the SLC "resolution" over Pairs. A few heads will roll temporarily, but nothing substantial will change.

 

[Immortelle]

How can anyone call Gwendal Peizerat “distant from the sport”??? He won an Olympic gold medal and has been vocal in exposing the faults in the French system and supporting the victims of abuse!

 

[Orm Irian]

I'm in two minds from what I've read about Pechalat's plans so far. I do think that her point about building up the other ice-sport disciplines that Didier shorted (both financially and in other ways) in order to build up figure skating is excellent and very necessary, and getting those sports on board as allies with bigger voices will help with the housecleaning project. But unless all she really expects to have to do is wind things up, not sweeping the structure clean and changing the management is a big problem, because soon enough it'll be business as usual. I know that not everyone in the FFSG management is/can possibly be corrupt and/or intentionally complicit with the abuses that have occurred - it's just statistically hugely unlikely - but unfortunately even just proximity can end up getting you tarred with the same brush in situations like these, because people make assumptions about what you knew and when you knew it, and the project of repairing the organisation might need more than a few such people to be let go along with the bad apples in the name of rebuilding trust.

On the other hand, some of the criticism I'm seeing of Pechalat putting her name forward has a kind of 'How dare the woman strike out on her own to do this, doesn't she know her job is to support the men?' undertone to it. We all know that Candeloro, for example, has long-standing grudges against Didier - very valid ones, to be sure, but it raises the question of his own motivations too. If I were a French skater right now I think I'd rather have someone who was motivated by some form of objective desire to contribute well in charge than someone whose interest might possibly drop off after they 'won' their personal fight. Peizerat I'm more inclined to trust; maybe Peizerat and Pechalat working as a team would be best...

And I think a lot of female skaters might respond positively to the idea of having a woman in charge, especially one who's tried to intervene on behalf of sexual abuse victims before. It may feel safer for them.

 

[tylersf]

I pick Surya Bonaly, Philippe Candeloro or Brian Joubert.

 

[MacMadame]

I pick Surya Bonaly, Philippe Candeloro or Brian Joubert.

Surya Bonaly lives in Las Vegas in the US. I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to move back to France in order to take on this headache.

Brian Joubert has made many troubling statements on this issue including a spirited defense of Didier and how it's not fair people are criticizing him. He can go screw himself.

 

[okokok777]

Surya Bonaly lives in Las Vegas in the US. I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to move back to France in order to take on this headache.

Brian Joubert has made many troubling statements on this issue including a spirited defense of Didier and how it's not fair people are criticizing him. He can go screw himself.

Surya has also defended Didier on Instagram - here is a machine translation of her post:

I understand that the President of Ice Sports made mistakes but I find it unbearable that we speak of Mr. Gailhaguet in this way; he has never abused his students or raped anyone; on the other hand there are 3 different scum 3 different Rapists on the loose who are Guilty or Guilty For more than 30 years that have made several skaters suffer in silence and no one pronounces their names in a loop on TV or newspapers and other media .... So Stop now . Clean up in the federation yes it's obvious; but stop beating on him like that . Before 2000 there were other presidents...

While I am sympathetic of her position (Didier was her coach and father figure), I wouldn't want her to be president of the FFSG. At this point, my top choice would be Gwendal Peizerat.