Surya Bonaly Profiled On "Losers"

Watched it. I didn’t know the argument with Didier was literally happening prior to the free skate in Albertville and the fallout was immediate. I knew she showed up to Worlds a total mess and unprepared, but I thought the drama happened following the Olympics rather than in the middle of it.

I also know she still really feels like she should’ve won in 1994, and we see that she worked hard between the ‘93 and ‘94 season and maybe that’s why in her head (and her team), she felt she really deserved it. But I think most of us would argue here that the case should’ve been made in 1993.

Anyways, she comes across as a lovely woman and she seems very happy with her life.

BTW- I interviewed Yuka Sato a few months ago and at the end, I asked her about the dynamic between the two, and Yuka told me a story about how she had fallen asleep in between shows or rehearsals backstage, and Surya took her jacket and put it over Yuka to keep warm. She said she was always very caring with everybody and there was never any tension between the two even directly following Worlds.
 
Just watched this with my morning coffee and I thought it was wonderfully put together! :)
 
Tony Wheeler said:
I also know she still really feels like she should’ve won in 1994, and we see that she worked hard between the ‘93 and ‘94 season and maybe that’s why in her head (and her team), she felt she really deserved it. But I think most of us would argue here that the case should’ve been made in 1993.
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After watching this, I'm still perplexed by her reaction at 94 Worlds. She did have some jump mistakes - a hand down and a two-foot underrotation on a 3/3 combo, plus the basic skating and speed issues. It was still a 5-4 decision. I felt like they were just scratching the surface with all the issues going on behind the scenes.

I liked seeing her skating with her fiance, especially the roller skating! That roller rink is only like a mile from my house LOL
 
Tony Wheeler said:
BTW- I interviewed Yuka Sato a few months ago and at the end, I asked her about the dynamic between the two, and Yuka told me a story about how she had fallen asleep in between shows or rehearsals backstage, and Surya took her jacket and put it over Yuka to keep warm. She said she was always very caring with everybody and there was never any tension between the two even directly following Worlds.
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I love that story. I do remember from ManleyWoman's podcast that Yuka said even during the whole podium situation, she didn't harbor any ill-will towards Surya as it was happening. She mostly felt bad for her because she knew how upset she was. I think every skater has probably been there except they usually put on a brave face. I still think Yuka should have won hands-down at 1994 Worlds. It was 1993 Worlds that seems the most debatable. Surya even skated better at 1995 Worlds outside of the SP.
 
I will watch this tonight. Love Surya :respec:

VIETgrlTerifa said:
It was 1993 Worlds that seems the most debatable. Surya even skated better at 1995 Worlds outside of the SP.
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I agree esp re: 1993. Surya winning in Prague sets up an interesting "What if?" IMO. Baiul wouldn't have been reigning WCH going into Lillehammer - I wonder if that would have changed the perceptions at the Olympics?
 
I haven't watched the Surya episode yet, but Mr. Habs and I are big curling fans, so we watched the Al Hackner/Pat Ryan curling episode. It was fantastic.
 
It's a good mini-documentary. Very enjoyable. I was intrigued that they said she had technique down, as part of the problem was her flat entry into lutz and flips. I honestly believe she wuzrobbed of placement more often than not, given what she could do. But I also put her a bit in the Johnny Weir category - massive talent, enjoyable to watch, and just not clean (in different ways, but the same end result). I'd love to see young Surya under COP - I think the rewards are so much easier to see cause-effect under COP. I'd like to believe with that kind of system, she would have been driven to accumulate points and we'd have seen that reflected in her technique, artistry, etc. As a fan, I'm so happy to see her happy; she deserves it!

FYI, the first entry in the series, about the actor and boxer Mike Bentt, is superb. This series snuck in on Netflix so quietly, I hope they get to make more.
 
I always loved watching Surya Bonaly - good, bad, up or down. She was always entertaining, and I'm glad to see that she turned out to be quite a lovely individual. I wonder that if she had gotten better coaching, her career might have been even greater?
 
Thanks for sharing that. I've always loved Surya even in her pro years. She still had that the quality of skating she was famous for, and it was a pleasure to watch her.

Thought I would share this here. Surya skated to I Can Do It by Barbra Streisand at the 1999 Improv-ice championships. She did her famous back-flip. Totally loved it. :)

Surya Bonaly -1999 Improv-ice
 
I think she was even more fun in the pro years, where you could wear costumes as outrageous she would please, do her backflips and splits on ice and just perform. She looked much happier in that era.
 
VenusH. said:
I think she was even more fun in the pro years, where you could wear costumes as outrageous she would please, do her backflips and splits on ice and just perform. She looked much happier in that era.
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Her basic skating also improved in that era. She was definitely fun to watch in person as a pro.
 
I’m always like if tptb all agreed she could not skate how did they come up with second place at worlds as a ceiling?!? Coincidence three times in a row?! Lol
 
I thought this was enjoyable and quite well done overall! Very random, disconnected thoughts:

1. I always thought Suzanne Bonaly looked like an olde wytch, but young Suzanne looked quite stylish. :lol:
2. My perceptions of the family, though, are no less strange than they were before. (The picture of Surya sleeping in the van! :yikes: )
3. WTF was with all of those weird animated cartoon versions of programs? To cut down on TV right fees? They showed plenty of other clips, though.... Couldn't figure out if this was a creative choice or a money-saving one.
4. Didier Gailhaguet's English is almost unaccented, which is very rare for a French person. I never noticed this before. Did he spend significant time in the US, Canada, or Britain?
5. Surya's jumps were even more atrocious than I remembered, and not just the "quads" and triple-triple combinations. I had to cover my eyes on virtually every landing. The majority would be << under COP.
6. She did, however, do some quality jumps under Gailhaguet -- clips of her double axel and triple salchow from 1992 showed excellent height, and flow in and out. These went away when mama took over. If she had stayed with Gailhaguet, I wonder if the quality of the rest of her jumps would have improved over time.

All in all, I thought this was a fair, balanced portrayal of Surya - and it did not touch at all on the Reunion Island story, the strange pidgin sign language she and her mother used, or her mother's constant adjusting of her boots and blades.
 
I watched it tonight. It was really good and very interesting. I agree that her jumps were so dodgy. But nice to see that she is happy and still involved with coaching.
 
Can't get this in Canada. Would appreciate a link, if anyone can post it.

meggonzo said:
After watching this, I'm still perplexed by her reaction at 94 Worlds. She did have some jump mistakes - a hand down and a two-foot underrotation on a 3/3 combo, plus the basic skating and speed issues. It was still a 5-4 decision. I felt like they were just scratching the surface with all the issues going on behind the scenes.
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Don't remember that incident, but do remember when she took a silver medal off - IIRC?

Surya's mom was absolutely toxic. IIRC she made up a story about Surya that she had been adopted in Africa, when she was actually adopted in France? Something to that effect?
 
Japanfan said:
Can't get this in Canada. Would appreciate a link, if anyone can post it.



Don't remember that incident, but do remember when she took a silver medal off - IIRC?

Surya's mom was absolutely toxic. IIRC she made up a story about Surya that she had been adopted in Africa, when she was actually adopted in France? Something to that effect?
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Her Worlds performances and fluff are easy to find on YouTube.
 
Oh I just wrote about this in the Off topic Netflix topic, because I hadn't seen this thread, so to summarize it here too:

I watched the Netflix episode about Surya and really enjoyed it. I also thought it gave a very balanced overview of her career and it gave me lots of insight why she acted as she did. She seemed a bit lost in her career and maybe missing outside input due to being coached by her mom all the time. Her fiancee seems really nice and I like the little peaks into her current life at the end.

Louis said:
I always thought Suzanne Bonaly looked like an olde wytch, but young Suzanne looked quite stylish. :lol:
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I was also a bit surprised that her parents seemed such "hippie" types in those old pictures and then Suzanne turned out to be such an uber-ice-skate-mom including the look of :EVILLE: ...

5. Surya's jumps were even more atrocious than I remembered, and not just the "quads" and triple-triple combinations. I had to cover my eyes on virtually every landing. The majority would be << under COP.
6. She did, however, do some quality jumps under Gailhaguet -- clips of her double axel and triple salchow from 1992 showed excellent height, and flow in and out. These went away when mama took over. If she had stayed with Gailhaguet, I wonder if the quality of the rest of her jumps would have improved over time.

All in all, I thought this was a fair, balanced portrayal of Surya - and it did not touch at all on the Reunion Island story, the strange pidgin sign language she and her mother used, or her mother's constant adjusting of her boots and blades.
Click to expand...

I did feel that Suryas mom was not really "touched" very much in the documentary and I suppose there's probably a reason for that. Maybe Surya and/or her mom didn't really want to have that topic covered very much (I have absolutely no idea how their relationship is today). There was one person commentating who mentioned something about her being the "problem" and not seeing any point in artistic development, but I think that was about all being said and Surya didn't talk about her at all.
But they did seem to imply that both her technical and artistic development was hindered by her being coached only by her mom all those years.
 
Miezekatze said:
Oh I just wrote about this in the Off topic Netflix topic, because I hadn't seen this thread, so to summarize it here too:

I watched the Netflix episode about Surya and really enjoyed it. I also thought it gave a very balanced overview of her career and it gave me lots of insight why she acted as she did. She seemed a bit lost in her career and maybe missing outside input due to being coached by her mom all the time. Her fiancee seems really nice and I like the little peaks into her current life at the end.



I was also a bit surprised that her parents seemed such "hippie" types in those old pictures and then Suzanne turned out to be such an uber-ice-skate-mom including the look of :EVILLE: ...



I did feel that Suryas mom was not really "touched" very much in the documentary and I suppose there's probably a reason for that. Maybe Surya and/or her mom didn't really want to have that topic covered very much (I have absolutely no idea how their relationship is today). There was one person commentating who mentioned something about her being the "problem" and not seeing any point in artistic development, but I think that was about all being said and Surya didn't talk about her at all.
But they did seem to imply that both her technical and artistic development was hindered by her being coached only by her mom all those years.
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Correction...Surya was not only coached by her Mom. After she left Didier she worked with Andre Brunet and Alain Giletti in France and then Frank Carroll and Tatiana Tarasova in the States. Her skating improved a great deal after she left Didier. I could especially see the influence of Frank Carroll on her skating. She was training with Frank when she won her first controversial silver in Prague.

Surya's Mom is so often made out to be a villain but she encouraged Surya to work with other coaches and paid for the lessons...no villain in my book.
 
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Watched it last night. Maybe it's the COP system, but after being used to it for 15 years, I was kind of shocked at how POOR her basic skating was. And I don't know if it was on purpose but they kept showing multiple clips of her landing < and << jumps. It was strange to hear Scottie, Tara and others almost repeat or reinforce the lie that "the judges" had something against her, and used her skin color as the reason. Frankly seeing her now from 2019 eyes, and knowing how fluid Yuka Sato was, there really was no comparing Surya and Yuko. And Surya's WC94 performance was filled with UR/DG. Because I'm white I really can't speak for how a black skater felt back then. But sometimes when you're the 'only one' in a group (I've felt it being gay) you might tend to focus on that if your results aren't what you want. But Surya surely had to have been told (though I doubt Didier would have told her) her that it is her BASIC SKATING that is the problem. Spend time on edging and crossovers, like four hours a day, and jumps and spin for 2 hours.

I kind of wished they'd have focused more on Mama.
 
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I was more annoyed with Pete Biver making it sound like Surya objectively skated better than Yuka when the opposite was true. He knows better but has some propaganda to sell. Scott and Tara didn't really do much to provide real insight but rather feed into some cliches. They really love the spotlight. There's probably not some TV opportunity they won't turn down.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I was more annoyed with Pete Biver making it sound like Surya objectively skated better than Yuka when the opposite was true. He knows better but has some propaganda to sell. Scott and Tara didn't really do much to provide real insight but rather feed into some cliches. They really love the spotlight. There's probably not some TV opportunity they won't turn down.
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YES!! And didn't they say he was a coach?!?! Totally took me by surprise to hear his opinions.
 
Surya and Tonya Harding were my favorite skaters and why I took up skating. I was always a fan of athletic vs. princess.

I loved this except for the weird cartoon stuff. Learned a few new things. Cried all over again when she took off the medal.

I loved seeing her do a death spiral. Come back and do a Deanna, LOL.
 
WillyElliot said:
Watched it last night. Maybe it's the COP system, but after being used to it for 15 years, I was kind of shocked at how POOR her basic skating was. And I don't know if it was on purpose but they kept showing multiple clips of her landing < and << jumps. It was strange to hear Scottie, Tara and others almost repeat or reinforce the lie that "the judges" had something against her, and used her skin color as the reason. Frankly seeing her now from 2019 eyes, and knowing how fluid Yuka Sato was, there really was no comparing Surya and Yuko. And Surya's WC94 performance was filled with UR/DG. Because I'm white I really can't speak for how a black skater felt back then. But sometimes when you're the 'only one' in a group (I've felt it being gay) you might tend to focus on that if your results aren't what you want. But Surya surely had to have been told (though I doubt Didier would have told her) her that it is her BASIC SKATING that is the problem. Spend time on edging and crossovers, like four hours a day, and jumps and spin for 2 hours.

I kind of wished they'd have focused more on Mama.
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I got the feeling that she was valued specifically for her unusual athleticism and "exotic" race. Hence the fake origin story. Certainly a lot of money and thought went into the elaborate costumes and hairdos that Peggy found so exotic. Didier was obviously trying to get skating's attention for his "different" black star. Maybe she would have been better off if they had all treated her like any other skater and just focused on her skating. That kind of obsession with her race, though well meant (maybe... as much for Didier and Team France's benefit as hers, though), might be even more discombobulating than overt racism, being harder to process.

I only became a serious fan in the IJS era so it's hard for me to fully understand a story line built around "failing to deliver what the judges wanted." I was puzzled by the contrast between messy jumps and sky-high expectations too. But she was wonderful in the clip from 1993 Worlds and the emotion of her loss to Baiul there with much lower tech content was easier to understand. Overall I saw a confused, wildly talented young woman trying her hardest to meet the conflicting expectations of her mother, her coach(es) and the judges and almost pulling it off. Today skaters rarely dominate the way they did in the 6.0 era, or for as long, and the attitude that only gold is good enough is a bit foreign to me (though not when I watch Russian ladies). But missing that final step on the ladder again and again, together with the only semi-successful marketing of her race, answered my question about how Surya could be seen as a failure. It's a complicated word to use of her but I can make sense of it now.
 
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