Survivor Season 35 Heroes vs Healers vs Hustlers starts 9/27/17

[Sally1214]

Chrissy just rubs me the wrong way, so glad she did not win, even though on paper she is a deserving winner. I feel the linking of her to being a mom equals hero was ‘stretched’
She comes across as phony.

I was okay with Chrissy not winning ... even though I thought she probably deserved it, based on her game play. But I strongly disagree with her "mom equals hero was stretched." If there is EVER anyone who puts others before themselves, denies themselves for the love of others, it is MOTHERS. From the instant that newborn is placed in her arms, a mother would give her life at any second for that child and all the others that follow. A mother NEVER stops putting others first ... even after her children are adults. Mothers are true heroes. Mothers are the heroes who raised/loved/supported/and would die for the veterans (who are their sons & and daughters). What mother would not have given her own life in place of fallen son or daughter? So .... no, it was not a "stretch." It is time that credit is given where it is well overdue.

 

[purple skates]

I told DH last night that I thought the final three would be Devon, Ryan and Chrissy, and that Devon would win and Chrissy would get no votes. Next week we will see if my power of prediction is correct.

^ Apparently my power of prediction ain’t too hot.

ETA: I’m with @smurfy. I wasn’t impressed with Chrissy’s whole “mothers are heros” thing either. Being a good mother isn’t heroic, it’s what millions of women do every day. To me, bring a hero is going above and beyond - so being a veteran does not necessarily mean you’re a hero either. I’m both a mom and a veteran, and I’m no hero.

 

[Erin]

I would be SOOOOO pissed right now if I was Chrissy! What a bullsh*t set-up by the producers.

I don't think Chrissy has anything to be pissed about, as I doubt she would have beat Devon anyway. Devon is the one who could be pissed but he seemed to take everything in stride. Very impressed with his attitude about the whole fire thing. Lots of people would have been upset to hear the twist and/or that he wasn't the one being picked but Devon immediately understood why he had to be the one make fire and saw it as an opportunity. And when it didn't work out, continued to maintain his positive attitude.

As finales go, this was neither the best nor the worst. I was hoping for a Devon win so I was a bit disappointed and didn't care for the twist. But the final 3 all had a case to be there even if Ryan's game fizzled in towards the end.

 

[Jenny]

Agree that final twist was to keep Ben in the game, or at least give him a shot. Calling it an "advantage" for Chrissy was most definitely not - she got to pick one person to go with her, but without it, she was choosing *both* the people to go with her. I guess they didn't like that Ben was going out so obviously, so no tension going into TC, and blah blah the veteran story.

However, much as I was hoping Ben would not win, he really was impressive in the last 3rd of the game - the idols, his double agent act, his read of the others, and his challenge skills - he didn't win, but sure came close. Some comments on social media this morning are VERY annoyed that instead of speaking to any of the other players, there was a lengthy piece on Ben to "justify" his win.

Still don't like Chrissy, but to winning all the final challenges. Bit annoyed with the whole "woman's record" thing as Survivor has always been an equal game, just a little too Alex Trebek for me. (And was I the only one wanting them to say whose record she tied? Amanda? And I'm assuming on the men's side it would be Ozzy or going back to Jeff's boyfriend from the beginning, what was his name Cody or something like that?).

But back to Chrissy, also props that she looked smokin' at the finale, but also agree with all of you that she laid the mom thing on WAY too thick. Especially given who she was talking to - mostly young people without families. Even the one other mother didn't vote for her. I'm guessing that she thought of herself as a mom figure to all the 20somethings, when in reality most of them found her condescending and controlling (which does not go over well with millennials as any marketer will tell you).

Agree also that it was good that Ryan got called out, and he should have known better. He may have been a superfan, but in the history of Survivor I think he'll go down as someone who pretty much accidentally made one pivotal move early in the game that got him to the end.

As for next season, agree that it's a bit weird to focus on mistakes of the past with such a young cast, but whatever, we'll see.

 

[Prancer]

Exactly. Once Dr. Mike left, I think the producers scrambled, bellowed for some parchment and started screaming at all the staff, "How do we get Ben to the final three? HOW DO WE GET BEN TO THE FINAL THREE??!!"

By law, they can't do that. Everything in the game has to be explictly written out before the game begins. That doesn't mean that they aren't allowed to have several options for each stage of the game that they can (and do) swap in and out, but they can't make something up as they go along if it can directly affect game play.

That said....

Jeff says that the last half of the game is great and the ending is jaw-dropping . . . I am calling it now--male winner.

Jeff hype=male winner every time.

However, much as I was hoping Ben would not win, he really was impressive in the last 3rd of the game - the idols, his double agent act, his read of the others, and his challenge skills - he didn't win, but sure came close. Some comments on social media this morning are VERY annoyed that instead of speaking to any of the other players, there was a lengthy piece on Ben to "justify" his win.

But that's the way they've been doing the finale show for a while. Jeff thinks it's boring to talk to the "losers."

I miss the days when he made sure everyone got to say something.

(And was I the only one wanting them to say whose record she tied? Amanda?

I think he said there were four women who were tied at four wins? Kelly Wigglesworth from the first season held the record on her own for a long time, I know that.

Did Dr. Mike vote for Chrissy? I wondered if he put a heart around her name the way she put a heart around his.

 

[Jenny]

By law, they can't do that. Everything in the game has to be explictly written out before the game begins. That doesn't mean that they aren't allowed to have several options for each stage of the game that they can (and do) swap in and out, but they can't make something up as they go along if it can directly affect game play.

By law? Perhaps it depends on if Survivor is classified as reality/entertainment or a competition (like say Jeopardy)? On another CBS show, Big Brother, there was a season where a very popular player who was part of a very popular showmance was about to get voted out, and then suddenly there was a fan vote that gave him a power never seen before and it saved his game. If they didn't make that up on the spot then they must've had it in the books as a just-in-case move.

I know several people who work on Big Brother Canada, and while yes there is a very big book on how it's done that plots out the season, I think the producers also have a lot of leeway to mix things up on the fly in the name of entertainment.

Did Dr. Mike vote for Chrissy? I wondered if he put a heart around her name the way she put a heart around his.

Ryan - Devon
Chrissy - Ashley, Mike
Ben - Desi, Cole, JP, Joe, Lauren

 

[Prancer]

By law? Perhaps it depends on if Survivor is classified as reality/entertainment or a competition (like say Jeopardy)?

Unless things have changed in recent years, it is by law a game show/competition and is governed by those laws, which are quite strict about gameplay ever since the 1950s quiz show scandals. Mark Burnett and company didn't know what they were doing the first season and got into some trouble, and have been very careful since then to toe the line.

 

[Habs]

I think he said there were four women who were tied at four wins? Kelly Wigglesworth from the first season held the record on her own for a long time, I know that.

Kelly was one for sure, and Jenna Morasca is another. I'm blanking on the other.

(And was I the only one wanting them to say whose record she tied? Amanda? And I'm assuming on the men's side it would be Ozzy or going back to Jeff's boyfriend from the beginning, what was his name Cody or something like that?).

The men's record in a single season is five. Ozzy and Colby did that for sure. I'm confident to say Tom Westman in Palau is another, and possibly Terry Dietz.

ETA: I found it: http://survivor.answers.wikia.com/wiki/Who_has_won_the_most_individual_immunity_challenges

And I was right. Just missed Kim on the women's side and Mike Holloway & Brad Culpepper on the men's.

 

[Jenny]

Here's what Jeff says about the fire challenge, and it actually makes a lot of sense:

This idea came about to solve a problem that has bothered me for years. If someone plays a great game and gets to the final four, it has always bothered me that the other three can simply say, “We can’t beat him, so let’s all just vote him out.” So this year we decided to make a change. If you get to final four, you are guaranteed a shot to earn your way to the end. And if you are the one to win the final four challenge, you are in charge of who you take and who you force to fight for it in a fire-making showdown. And of course, it goes without saying, we got lucky with a huge million dollar showdown between Ben and Devon. It was electric. And yes, that will be a new format change and will appear in next season, Survivor: Ghost Island.

Full interview here.

 

[Erin]

Kelly was one for sure, and Jenna Morasca is another. I'm blanking on the other.


The men's record in a single season is five. Ozzy and Colby did that for sure. I'm confident to say Tom Westman in Palau is another, and possibly Terry Dietz.

ETA: I found it: http://survivor.answers.wikia.com/wiki/Who_has_won_the_most_individual_immunity_challenges

And I was right. Just missed Kim on the women's side and Mike Holloway & Brad Culpepper on the men's.

Thank you - someone on another board had said it was Kelly Wigglesworth and Jenna Morasca, but Kim Spradlin was the first name that came to my mind, so I feel satisfied to know I was partly right also.

 

[sk8pics]

I actually got a little teary eyed when Ben made it into the final 3 and when he won. Chrissy rubbed me the wrong way, and while Ben was also annoying at times, I thought he really fought with his back against the wall the last several weeks of the show. He didn’t have anyone helping him the last 4 tribal councils, it was all up to him. Including in the fire making challenge. I liked Ryan originally but he really did not do that much and was fortunate to form an alliance that helped him get all the way to the end.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Exactly. Once Dr. Mike left, I think the producers scrambled, bellowed for some parchment and started screaming at all the staff, "How do we get Ben to the final three? HOW DO WE GET BEN TO THE FINAL THREE??!!"

Is it possible to rig flint? I think they rigged the flint. (/sarcasm off)

 

[BaileyCatts]

Here's what Jeff says about the fire challenge, and it actually makes a lot of sense: .........

Okay, if that's his deal then it should be the person who gets the final Immunity win gets a spot in the Final 3, but then the 3 remaining players ALL have to make fire. First two to get fire ..... get the Final 3 spots so 'everyone' has a fair chance. No one gets a free pass but the Immunity winner.

 

[Jenny]

@BaileyCatts agree, especially as it was positioned as an advantage for the immunity winner when it wasn't. I guess if this was a brand new game, then it would be a bonus for the final immunity winner to get to "share it" with someone else, but this is Survivor, and they spent the whole game planning otherwise, so it turned out to be a disadvantage.

Interesting when you think back to TC the week before, and Jeff asked each of them if they had a final 3 in mind, and one by one, they all did. Oh, Jeff.

Lots of buzz on social media that fans and bloggers are pissed that Jeff didn't talk to the rest of the cast, and instead filled the time with promos for the next season, BenBenBen, and random fan comments that contributed nothing. I think Prancer already said that Jeff says no one wants to hear from losers, but that's obviously not true. Perhaps they think that social media and blogger interview now cover fan interest in the players?

 

[Jenny]

Ryan's EW interview is interesting.

Several of them have now said that one of the issues with the fire challenge is that whoever won it was going to make a spectacular display to the jury, saving themselves and earning their way into the final TC - they've speculated that had Devon won it, he would have won the game.

Ryan also points out that by Chrissy choosing him, the perception was that he was "taken" to the final rather than earning it. His plan was to be sitting next to Chrissy and Devon, and then take credit for forming alliances with each of them at the beginning and earning his way to the end.

 

[Prancer]

I think Prancer already said that Jeff says no one wants to hear from losers, but that's obviously not true.

That wasn't exactly the way he put it; it was more that that interesting players were the ones who made it to the end and there were reasons that the ones who didn't make it didn't make it. But again, this isn't a new attitude for the show--anyone remember the RupertRupertRupert focus of Pearl Islands?

I noticed that the reunion show started late and didn't run an hour the way it used to, so the fact that they showed more of the game and less of the reunion might have played a role in the lack of interaction.

At least Sia wasn't on this one .

 

[Fridge_Break]

I finally watched the finale. Meh.

 

[tony]

Ryan's EW interview is interesting.

Several of them have now said that one of the issues with the fire challenge is that whoever won it was going to make a spectacular display to the jury, saving themselves and earning their way into the final TC - they've speculated that had Devon won it, he would have won the game.

Ryan also points out that by Chrissy choosing him, the perception was that he was "taken" to the final rather than earning it. His plan was to be sitting next to Chrissy and Devon, and then take credit for forming alliances with each of them at the beginning and earning his way to the end.

Way after the fact, but I agree with Ryan on all of his points and I think this was a very stupid decision by producers. If someone is that much of a threat going into the final four and can't win the final immunity, then why should they get a second chance? It's no different when they begin on separate tribes and someone is obviously dominant and seen as a threat, or when they merge and there is fear that one person is going to win every immunity challenge so they become the target/get voted out. So I'm not sure why it changes at the final four. I hope after this next season they realize this is stupid.

Another thing that I've always noticed but thought it was really apparent this season is Jeff likes to point things out or raise questions during tribal council to put targets on specific people. Or he points out an eye roll or look of disgust that otherwise wouldn't be seen. Of course, I heard that tribal councils go on for hours and maybe he does this to everyone equally but we just see the relevant parts on the broadcast.

The best thing would be to have a season of self-proclaimed super fans and have no twists at all. No idols, no advantages, no tribe swap, etc. They will all be going crazy looking for something or anticipating a twist.

 

[BaileyCatts]

.........The best thing would be to have a season of self-proclaimed super fans and have no twists at all. No idols, no advantages, no tribe swap, etc. They will all be going crazy looking for something or anticipating a twist.

OMG I LLLOOVVVEEE this idea!!! Too watch them all go scrambling around searching for Idols, doing the calculations of when swaps or merges occur, looking for clues at reward challenges that aren't there ..... oh I would LOVE it!!!! Get that idea to the show stat!!!

 

[Jenny]

I love the idea too, but I think today's players are savvy enough that they'd soon realize that no clues were coming and no idols were to be found. When no switch happened, they'd hunker down for the inevitable merge, and with nothing to mess up their game plans, it might be a boring season of one or two strong alliances picking off players one by one.

I wonder what it would be like to go straight to individual immunity challenges. And mix them up more as in the earlier seasons so that they never know who will be the threat - some are puzzle only, some physical only, some mental/endurance etc. Maybe even skills tests - firemaking, fishing, local knowledge etc.

I also like the idea of having them divided into tribes but living on the same beach. I think that happened for one TC cycle only way back in Thailand, no? Did I miss another? Anyway, the idea being that they'd be free to conspire and align with anyone, but then rely on tribe members to keep them safe.

 

[Prancer]

I also like the idea of having them divided into tribes but living on the same beach. I think that happened for one TC cycle only way back in Thailand, no? Did I miss another?

In Thailand, the one beach/two tribe thing only lasted for one day, I think? The infamous fake merge episode that did in Shii-Ann?

One World was the one where they put both tribes (one male, one female to start) on the same beach. It did not go well, IIRC, and I am not surprised they haven't done it again.

 

[Habs]

I also like the idea of having them divided into tribes but living on the same beach. I think that happened for one TC cycle only way back in Thailand, no? Did I miss another? Anyway, the idea being that they'd be free to conspire and align with anyone, but then rely on tribe members to keep them safe.

In One World both tribes lived on the same beach, but other than Kim dominating the game and that being the first appearance of Colton, I don't remember much else about that season.