State of Canadian skating for the next quad

[gwagner]

I've closely followed canadian skating for the past 40 years, and I think our current state is about as low as it's ever been during that long span. Way back when, we could always count on the mens and pairs to have medal/title contenders, but it seems to me we have no such contenders going into next year (assuming Piper and Paul retire). Looking at each discipline, I am excited to see how Madeline continues to develop, and I like there are several up and coming men with skating talent and multiple quad potential, but do we have any pairs with the "it" factor, and the same for dance?

 

[4rkidz]

I've closely followed canadian skating for the past 40 years, and I think our current state is about as low as it's ever been during that long span. Way back when, we could always count on the mens and pairs to have medal/title contenders, but it seems to me we have no such contenders going into next year (assuming Piper and Paul retire). Looking at each discipline, I am excited to see how Madeline continues to develop, and I like there are several up and coming men with skating talent and multiple quad potential, but do we have any pairs with the "it" factor, and the same for dance?

We have the former junior world champions in Dance, great junior men moving up to senior. Not sure about pairs? I don't think we are in that bad of shape. Lets see how we do in junior worlds.

 

[coppertop1]

And Maddie definitely has potential.

 

[gwagner]

I like Madeline's mental toughness, and her jumping potential (for triples anyway), but her posture and line seems average-- but she is still very young right? she should be able to develop her artistic impression considerably in coming years.

What are people's assessment of the degree of upward potential for Lajoie/Lagha? Do they have the technical skating skills foundation to make a major leap in the next couple of years?

 

[Karen-W]

We have the former junior world champions in Dance, great junior men moving up to senior. Not sure about pairs? I don't think we are in that bad of shape. Lets see how we do in junior worlds.

Yes, I was looking at the Bavarian Open scores for McIntosh/Mimar to see how they stack up to the Jr Worlds field and I think they'll be in the hunt for the podium there. That score was similar to Smirnova/Siianytsia's SB from the JGP, and both teams are only about 7-8 points behind Golubeva/Giotopoulos-Moore's SB, which they got at Golden Spin, which was a senior event. And, of course, D'Alessandro/Waddell are going to battle for gold with Wolfkostin/Chen in dance (and would have been contending even with the Russians). All is not completely dire for Canada, I don't think, though the ranks are a little thin, across all disciplines at the moment.

 

[Wyliefan]

What are people's assessment of the degree of upward potential for Lajoie/Lagha? Do they have the technical skating skills foundation to make a major leap in the next couple of years?

They have a lot going for them, including good speed and good lifts. They need to work on their levels and especially their connection. A lot will depend on the programs they get. I think their team has worked hard to disguise their lack of connection, but at some point they're going to have to address it and not just cover it up.

 

[dramagrrl]

I don't personally think that L/L have a lack of connection. In some of their earlier FDs, such as their Imagine Dragons program, I think they showed good connection with each other, and that was when Zach was still developing his presentation/performance skills, which I think have come a long way since then. Marjorie has also been improving in terms of doing the opposite, which is toning down her sometimes OTT expression.

I think one of the big factors in terms of whether they will or can rise internationally will be the fact that we now only have two Worlds slots for Canada in ice dance, and will likely not be able to get three back for a few years. If Piper and Paul decide to stick around until Montreal Worlds, those two spots are almost certainly going to go to them and to F-B/S, which means that L/L will lack experience in the most important competition of the season until G/P retire or until they can overtake F-B/S. That could be quite damaging politically in terms of them being seen as a rising senior team as well.

 

[mackiecat]

There are a lot of nicely developing women in the Jr and Novice level. Even farther down in pre-Juv to pre-Nov the level of jumps completed has been increasing

 

[Wyliefan]

With many teams retiring or taking time off, I don't expect it to take too long for Canada to get the third dance spot back.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

With many teams retiring or taking time off, I don't expect it to take too long for Canada to get the third dance spot back.

Assuming that AIM gives both teams strong programs next year, with all of the potential retirements in the dance top 12, L&L and F-B could potentially finish 6th & 7th in 2023 and gain back the third spot.

 

[skategal]

As much as I like FB/S, I’m not sure Nick has much left in the tank and I can see L/L overtaking them next season and potentially being Canada 1 if Piper and Paul do indeed retire (not compete next season.)

 

[honey]

Are G/P expected to continue? I would have assumed not. I don’t think they’ve said too much publicly though one way or another.

I love F-B/S, but something really looks off right now. I’m guessing injury that they are not talking about (maybe his knee is a problem again?). They were just so messy at the Olympics and again at worlds. I really hope they can be healthy and continue at least for another couple of seasons. And also hope they have better material if they continue .

 

[Jonas]

Looking forward to seeing more of Deanna Stellato and Maxime Deschamps next season! I'm probably getting waaaaaaaay ahead of myself here, but I see no reason why they couldn't claim the Canadian title next season -- and that's even WITH James & Radford, should they opt to stay in!

Your thoughts...

 

[Colonel Green]

If Piper and Paul decide to stick around until Montreal Worlds, those two spots are almost certainly going to go to them and to F-B/S, which means that L/L will lack experience in the most important competition of the season until G/P retire or until they can overtake F-B/S.

Gilles & Poirier are all but retired; at a minimum, not competing next season.

 

[kates8]

Are G/P expected to continue? I would have assumed not. I don’t think they’ve said too much publicly though one way or another.

I love F-B/S, but something really looks off right now. I’m guessing injury that they are not talking about (maybe his knee is a problem again?). They were just so messy at the Olympics and again at worlds. I really hope they can be healthy and continue at least for another couple of seasons. And also hope they have better material if they continue .

Nik said yesterday on CBC TV interview that he hurt his back in practice at the Worlds which probably affected his performance and stamina. In the same TV program P&P stated that they had not decided their future yet.

 

[Habs]

Are G/P expected to continue? I would have assumed not. I don’t think they’ve said too much publicly though one way or another.

I love F-B/S, but something really looks off right now. I’m guessing injury that they are not talking about (maybe his knee is a problem again?). They were just so messy at the Olympics and again at worlds. I really hope they can be healthy and continue at least for another couple of seasons. And also hope they have better material if they continue .

F-B & S have confirmed he was dealing with a back injury at Worlds.

 

[Andora]

Skate Canada emptied the tank for 2018. They threw everything they had at 2010 as well, but I'm not sure what the difference after that was, outside of COVID.

Speaking of COVID, I was reminded in another thread how debilitating this was to Canadian skaters, more than other major federations. Lack of competition, ice time - it would have been a problem for experienced top tier athletes (KMT, G&P suffered from this, imho) but it possibly derailed skaters coming up who weren't yet established. I wonder what skaters like Roman Sadovsky or L&L would have looked like had they been able to develop with regular competition and uninterrupted training.

Life after 2018 was always going to be tough for Canadian skating. I've said it before, I know, but that was an exceptional graduating class. Still, COVID isn't all to blame. I question if Skate Canada suffers from funding issues OR a clueless top-heavy organization that's spinning its wheels and thinks it's trying.

I guess we'll have a better idea of where problems really lie next season.

 

[mackiecat]

In Ontario, considering that only Jr and Sr ranked competitors could train during Covid, it amazing that Provincials had the entries they did. Lots of talent lower level skaters quit. ( Michelle Lee being one)
Even for those who could train, there were issues. If you normally trained in a public rink, they were mostly closed. The rinks open were very limited. in the old Western Ontario only the Moir’s rink, Brantford and Hamilton were open. Central was a bit better but remember commuting in GTA is a pain. Off the top of my head, TCCS, Granite, YRSC, oakville, CIA rink, North York were open. There was a rink in Ottawa open too

Young skater overcoming training bumps as Nationals approach - Windsor News Today

A Windsor-Essex figure skater has jumped through as many hoops as double-axels as he trains for this week's national championships.

blackburnnews.com

 

[Colonel Green]

Speaking of COVID, I was reminded in another thread how debilitating this was to Canadian skaters, more than other major federations. Lack of competition, ice time - it would have been a problem for experienced top tier athletes (KMT, G&P suffered from this, imho) but it possibly derailed skaters coming up who weren't yet established. I wonder what skaters like Roman Sadovsky or L&L would have looked like had they been able to develop with regular competition and uninterrupted training.

Gilles & Poirier actively benefited from the pandemic, arguably. 2021 Worlds was their finest hour (and certainly, COVID helped clear the way to that bronze).

Still, COVID isn't all to blame. I question if Skate Canada suffers from funding issues OR a clueless top-heavy organization that's spinning its wheels and thinks it's trying.

The problem was that they got exceptionally unlucky pretty much across the board with their developing prospects.

 

[overedge]

@Andora I vote for "clueless and top-heavy". Although another factor that might come into play is what happens with the Own The Podium funding and other support that depends on medals as a measure of performance. Between clubs taking a hit because of rinks being closed, and that funding potentially being reduced, the next couple of years may not be good.

 

[Lemonade20]

@Andora I vote for "clueless and top-heavy". Although another factor that might come into play is what happens with the Own The Podium funding and other support that depends on medals as a measure of performance. Between clubs taking a hit because of rinks being closed, and that funding potentially being reduced, the next couple of years may not be good.

Totally agree, it won't change overnight

 

[coppertop1]

Skate Canada emptied the tank for 2018. They threw everything they had at 2010 as well, but I'm not sure what the difference after that was, outside of COVID.

I think the difference is that while we did have something retirements and teams splitting up in 2010 (Joannie Rochette, Dube/Davison, Archetto/Hay). Many of out young skaters were at their peak and we also had some new faces. Virtue/Moir and Patrick Chris began their reign. Duhamel/Radford and MT/M both began their careers. Kaetlyn Osmond entered the senior ranks in 2012. So,we were able to build for Sochi. Come Pyeongchang, all of our skaters who were young and at their peak were now veterans and retiring. We also had some bad luck. Gabby Daleman has had a number of health problems as injuries. Seguin/Bill were expecting to pick up the mantle in pairs, but Bilodeau abruptly ended their partnership. Aurora Cotop has been plagued by injuries. Part of it is Skate Canada relying too heavily on its veterans and not funding our young skaters.

 

[Colonel Green]

Part of it is Skate Canada relying too heavily on its veterans and not funding our young skaters.

They did fund young skaters. Those young skaters just, for the most part, didn't get anywhere for a variety of reasons. Fingers crossed that Wesley Chiu doesn't get derailed by growth spurts like every other promising young male skater over the past six years.

 

[kwanfan1818]

By the time she was dumped, Seguin had suffered from multiple concussions, and, in retrospect, has said that stopping was likely life-saving. Whatever I might think of him, I'm glad she didn't continue, for her health's sake.

 

[coppertop1]

By the time she was dumped, Seguin had suffered from multiple concussions, and, in retrospect, has said that stopping was likely life-saving. Whatever I might think of him, I'm glad she didn't continue, for her health's sake.

Yeah, the issue is more how he handled it, but thar seems to be a problem in pairs. But it was definitely better for her health that she retired. Its unfortunate.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Thanks to corrupt judging, abuse and doping, the sport seems to no longer have the sparkle and allure it once had.

With Russia out of the scene, for now, perhaps singles skaters may see medal possibilities in training towards the world stage again. For the women in particular, knowing that they needed a triple axel and several quadruple jumps just to be competitive, would be a very high mountain to climb.

 

[coppertop1]

I like Madeline's mental toughness, and her jumping potential (for triples anyway), but her posture and line seems average-- but she is still very young right? she should be able to develop her artistic impression considerably in coming years.

What are people's assessment of the degree of upward potential for Lajoie/Lagha? Do they have the technical skating skills foundation to make a major leap in the next couple of years?

I think developing her second mark will be the key for her to maintain the top ten. She's not far off.

I thought L/L are good technically skaters. Again, developing thar second marketing will help.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I think developing her second mark will be the key for her to maintain the top ten. She's not far off.

I thought L/L are good technically skaters. Again, developing thar second marketing will help.

Her final placement must be a bit frustrating for Schizas in Montpellier, because in both segments she actually placed tenth. It was due to movement above and below her after the short program which resulted in her final 12th place.

ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2022 - Women

www.isuresults.com

 

[coppertop1]

Her final placement must be a bit frustrating for Schizas in Montpellier, because in both segments she actually placed tenth. It was due to movement above and below her after the short program which resulted in her final 12th place.

ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2022 - Women

www.isuresults.com

And less than a point out of tenth. Ouch. She'll get there. It's not like the 90s, where our women were scraping the bottom.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

And less than a point out of tenth. Ouch. She'll get there. It's not like the 90s, where our women were scraping the bottom.

I like her skating, and she isn't afraid of competing, either. I believe Schizas has landed a triple axel (albeit in a harness) as well.