Slate | The Once Unthinkable Revolution Coming to Figure Skating

[Theoreticalgirl]

There's a feature over at Slate today regarding the possibility of same gender teams in skating:

A Once Unthinkable Revolution Is Coming to Figure Skating. Is the Sport—and the World—Ready?

Some of its biggest stars think so.

slate.com

 

[eusebius]

There's a feature over at Slate today regarding the possibility of same gender teams in skating:

A Once Unthinkable Revolution Is Coming to Figure Skating. Is the Sport—and the World—Ready?

Some of its biggest stars think so.

slate.com

Wow! I stan Hubbell/Papadakis

 

[MacMadame]

That was a great, in-depth article!

 

[caseyedwards]

i watch some gymnastics and they have same sex teams of guys but one guy is always much smaller than the other! Like I would say 150 lbs and 110 lbs

 

[Trillian]

This is a great article and I’m a fan of everyone involved, but I keep thinking about Madison Hubbell’s quotes in particular. “Your worth in the sport is not tied to one particular stereotype,” coming from a world-class coach, is really something. I can imagine her being such an empowering influence on her students in the long-term.

 

[Aimless]

Really thoughtful informed article. There’s hope that our sport can and will evolve.

 

[PRlady]

This is a great article and I’m a fan of everyone involved, but I keep thinking about Madison Hubbell’s quotes in particular. “Your worth in the sport is not tied to one particular stereotype,” coming from a world-class coach, is really something. I can imagine her being such an empowering influence on her students in the long-term.

I was a huge H/D fan but never realized what a thoughtful, mature person Madison is. So glad she’s gone into coaching.

 

[Tesla]

That clip and those pictures are lovely.

 

[Cachoo]

Great job Slate!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Hector Giotopoulos Moore / ANL

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

What a detailed, interesting read, I learned a lot. So refreshing. Also, this part…………

Some worry about the exposure that would come with being part of a same-gender team. Émile Couture, a 21-year-old Canadian figure skater, said he stepped away from competitive ice dance feeling uninspired by skating with a female partner. Earlier this year, he uploaded a unique profile on Icepartnersearch.com. “I am actually looking for another guy to compete with on a national level in Canada,” his bio reads. “My short-term goal would be to successfully compete at Nationals next year as the first man-man couple and pioneer this new challenge.”

 

[Finnice]

Wow, such a great article! I hope our beloved sport will emcourage same-sex dancers and pairs. Long live the diversity!
And how I would love to see Papadakis and Hubbel to perform together. Such a great skaters ans wise women.

 

[rfisher]

Wow, such a great article! I hope our beloved sport will emcourage same-sex dancers and pairs. Long live the diversity!
And how I would love to see Papadakis and Hubbel to perform together. Such a great skaters ans wise women.

Dance, maybe, but female pair teams probably not because women don't typically have the upper body strength to do the lifts or throws. A male-male team could certainly work.

 

[Trillian]

And how I would love to see Papadakis and Hubbel to perform together. Such a great skaters ans wise women.

I was excited to read that they plan to post full programs on social media. I could see this being beneficial in the way that they’re probably hoping (“let’s normalize this for younger skaters”). But in a more general sense, I could also imagine their videos reaching an audience that doesn’t usually pay much attention to skating.

Hubbell also made a remark about people in skating needing to envision an audience beyond wealthy, white, heterosexual people. Obviously some of us have known that for quite a while, but it’s exciting to see someone with such a high profile in the the sport a) calling it out in the media, and b) working on a project that might have a chance of drawing in some of that audience.

 

[Pink Cats]

Dance, maybe, but female pair teams probably not because women don't typically have the upper body strength to do the lifts or throws. A male-male team could certainly work.

I tend to agree with you though I have seen videos for cheer/acrobatic teams where a female is doing the lifting they still had the issue of a very short & small liftee verse a much taller and larger lifter.

 

[just tuned in]

That clip and those pictures are lovely.

Great article, and I look forward to more same-same couples on the ice, with all the magic those partnerships can make.

That said, I do not agree that Papadakis and Hubbell have "the same lines" or whatever they are quoted as saying. Hubbell is twice the size of Papadakis. Gave me a Mommy-Daughter vibe. (And I have no doubt that Hubbell could throw Papadakis halfway down the rink, if they both wanted to...)

 

[overedge]

Dance, maybe, but female pair teams probably not because women don't typically have the upper body strength to do the lifts or throws. A male-male team could certainly work.

That could be fixed by changing the elements in pairs or how they're valued. Once upon a time pair skating was about unison and timing, not about lifting or throwing a partner.

 

[Desperado]

I enjoyed reading this article SO MUCH. I’m impressed that a non-skating publication did such a great job (the author is a former figure skater) and excited about the bigger reach it offers.

Can’t wait to see full routines. In the very shallow end, my first thought was “I hope they get matching boots” which is totally superficial.

P.S. Maddie got white boots for the SOI ensemble numbers, she may still have them.

 

[Sylvia]

The author's website: https://www.taliabarrington.com/

 

[MacMadame]

Dance, maybe, but female pair teams probably not because women don't typically have the upper body strength to do the lifts or throws. A male-male team could certainly work.

Sorry, but no. Not every female is 5'4 or less and doesn't strength train.

There is no reason a tall woman couldn't lift a tiny woman. Or a tall non-binary person couldn't lift a short person of any gender.

That could be fixed by changing the elements in pairs or how they're valued. Once upon a time pair skating was about unison and timing, not about lifting or throwing a partner.

Or just open up skating to more body types that can do typical pair elements.

 

[MacMadame]

I enjoyed reading this article SO MUCH. I’m impressed that a non-skating publication did such a great job (the author is a former figure skater) and excited about the bigger reach it offers.

Her bio says she did ballroom dance and coached ballroom dance. Where did you hear she was a figure skater and how far did she test?

 

[Desperado]

Her bio says she did ballroom dance and coached ballroom dance. Where did you hear she was a figure skater and how far did she test?

I clicked on her name and got this: https://slate.com/author/talia-barrington

 

[Sylvia]

From the Tracings database (she was an ice dancer in GBR): https://tracings.net/barr-powe.html

ETA: https://skatingscores.com/gbr/dance/talia_barrington_darren_powell/

 

[vireo]

I tend to agree with you though I have seen videos for cheer/acrobatic teams where a female is doing the lifting they still had the issue of a very short & small liftee verse a much taller and larger lifter.

For some elements a size/weight difference will be advantageous, perhaps even necessary, no matter the genders of the performers. Overhead lifts in pairs, for example.

We see this in cheerleading and acrobatic troops, whether mixed or same gender. It's almost always one of the smaller people who is thrown, catapulted, or ends up balanced on top of the pyramid.

 

[Karen-W]

Personally, I think y'all are nuts if you think you'll see these sort of partnerships competing at Worlds or the Olympics in the next quarter century. Figure skating is far too conservative of a sport for any kind of rapid change to the existing gender structures within the elite levels of the sport. It will be an oddity that appears in shows and in some videos that perhaps go viral, but it will take a loooong time for this to gain any traction.

 

[Alilou]

Personally, I think y'all are nuts if you think you'll see these sort of partnerships competing at Worlds or the Olympics in the next quarter century. Figure skating is far too conservative of a sport for any kind of rapid change to the existing gender structures within the elite levels of the sport. It will be an oddity that appears in shows and in some videos that perhaps go viral, but it will take a loooong time for this to gain any traction.

Yeah, no, IDK - there's a whole new generation coming up who are so much more open to gender diversity. I agree it will take time, but don't think it will take 25 yrs. 10 maybe.

 

[tony]

Personally, I think y'all are nuts if you think you'll see these sort of partnerships competing at Worlds or the Olympics in the next quarter century. Figure skating is far too conservative of a sport for any kind of rapid change to the existing gender structures within the elite levels of the sport. It will be an oddity that appears in shows and in some videos that perhaps go viral, but it will take a loooong time for this to gain any traction.

No, it's not. Figure skating is a sport where many of the participants have identified as LGBTQ, whether out or not, since the very early days of the competitive side of it. The older generation is dying out with their bigoted ways. Things have already progressed tremendously in the last 10 or so years. It won't take that long until we see a team breaking that barrier.

 

[victorskid]

There's a feature over at Slate today regarding the possibility of same gender teams in skating:

A Once Unthinkable Revolution Is Coming to Figure Skating. Is the Sport—and the World—Ready?

Some of its biggest stars think so.

slate.com

The author is married to Jordan Cowan of On Ice Perspectives - he was promoting her article on Twitter

 

[Trillian]

That could be fixed by changing the elements in pairs or how they're valued. Once upon a time pair skating was about unison and timing, not about lifting or throwing a partner.

Or just open up skating to more body types that can do typical pair elements.

Yes, but I think the point here is that decreasing the emphasis on what we consider “typical pair elements” now might also help open the sport to more body types. Even if we take gender out of the equation, the way pairs is scored right now still favors a significant size difference between the partners. And since there’s a practical limit on how many very tall or very muscular lifting partners are going to be able to land consistent triples, that tends to lead to one partner being very small instead. IMO this is one of the biggest issues limiting the development of pairs skating, and just opening up the sport to all genders wouldn’t completely fix it. Change the scoring so that we’re not incentivizing extreme size differences so much, and we might see more skaters who fall somewhere in the middle of the size spectrum. Plus, skaters would have more options in terms of potential partners.

 

[Cachoo]

Yes, but I think the point here is that decreasing the emphasis on what we consider “typical pair elements” now might also help open the sport to more body types. Even if we take gender out of the equation, the way pairs is scored right now still favors a significant size difference between the partners. And since there’s a practical limit on how many very tall or very muscular lifting partners are going to be able to land consistent triples, that tends to lead to one partner being very small instead. IMO this is one of the biggest issues limiting the development of pairs skating, and just opening up the sport to all genders wouldn’t completely fix it. Change the scoring so that we’re not incentivizing extreme size differences so much, and we might see more skaters who fall somewhere in the middle of the size spectrum. Plus, skaters would have more options in terms of potential partners.

I think it is what I felt refreshing about seeing girls dance with one another in ballroom dancing contests in the UK. There is a dearth of partners if one must do boy/girl. Being able to participate is fantastic.