Shibutanis thread 3: Evolution

[VGThuy]

I really like the change to Alex's costume. They look like they go together now and it just adds something.

They look like they are performing with more energy, especially in the second step sequence. And I am glad they changed the choreographic lift. They lost points to Chock & Bates on that at Nationals.

It looks a bit simple, but at least now it's not labored and rushed and these elements are graded on GOE only, so it makes sense for them to go with something they know they can execute well.

 

[Bellanca]

Very interesting considering the comments of Mark H. on The skating lesson about the Shibs not being as good people as they appear and he implying that they are having some kind of drama at Canton .

I second that e(motion) for double the !!

Honestly, f*ck them.

Right on!

They never gloat over wins but talk about how hard they have worked to get where they are and how much more they want to grow.

The Shibs never rest on their laurels. They are always challenging themselves. I am excited to see what goodies they have in store for us. They just keep getting stronger,

Role Models! Extraordinaire!

More good work by the Shibs: they will be Sports Envoys in Korea after 4CC:
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexShibutani/status/831677602351812609

Wow! That's a huge deal.

Yes!

What an honor and stepping stone for future great things!

HUGE honor! Congratulations, Maia & Alex! Keep bringing the class!

 

[chapis]

Maia and Alex are in second place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ivISwC0gWI

 

[VGThuy]

And I think they and V/M got the loudest crowd reactions. C/B had a pretty great reaction too.

 

[suki]

And I think they and V/M got the loudest crowd reactions. C/B had a pretty great reaction too.

Okay, I dare not say this on any other ice dance thread, but I think the Shib's SD is more groundbreaking and fresh than V/M's Prince. There, I said it and now I feel better.

 

[VGThuy]

Okay, I dare not say this on any other ice dance thread, but I think the Shib's SD is more groundbreaking and fresh than V/M's Prince. There, I said it and now I feel better.

It really is. I don't think a lot of people get just how authentic it is with the music edit and the moves they were doing. Part of it is the Shibs low-key style. People think hip hop dancing is just B-boy style when there are so many other styles in hip hop.

 

[chapis]

Damn, 3 level 3 http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/fc2017/fc2017_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

 

[VGThuy]

But they received the highest GOEs of the night and some judges actually dared to score them higher than V/M on some PCS categories, even if they didn't score them higher than V/M in PCS overall. They need to feel extremely encouraged by this. The lower levels is something they can easily work on to fix (as they did after GPF 2015-2016 to Nationals/4CC/Worlds). GOE and PCS not so much.

 

[chapis]

But they received the highest GOEs of the night and some judges actually dared to score them higher than V/M on some PCS categories, even if they didn't score them higher than V/M in PCS overall. They need to feel extremely encouraged by this. The lower levels is something they can easily work on to fix (as they did after GPF 2015-2016 to Nationals/4CC/Worlds). GOE and PCS not so much.

they got level 3 in the blues pattern at gpf and nationals . But yes, it is great they are getting high GOEs and PCS, though I don´t like they depend of something so subjective.

 

[VGThuy]

they got level 3 in the blues pattern at gpf and nationals . But yes, it is great they are getting high GOEs and PCS, though I don´t like they depend of something so subjective.

I have faith they'll work on it and get it if last season taught me anything.

 

[douglasottawa]

I love them so much but I do almost wonder after the GPF what they have to do exactly. They skated perfectly there, had all level 4s, very high GOE on every single element, very high PCS, and it still was only good enough for 3rd, behind Papadakis & Cizeron who had a very subpar SD for their standards, and well behind a currently just on fire Virtue & Moir.

 

[VGThuy]

I love them so much but I do almost wonder after the GPF what they have to do exactly. They skated perfectly there, had all level 4s, very high GOE on every single element, very high PCS, and it still was only good enough for 3rd, behind Papadakis & Cizeron who had a very subpar SD for their standards, and well behind a currently just on fire Virtue & Moir.

I think they need to really hit all their levels and keep winning the judges over. Also, they need to skate as if the elements they're doing look a bit more dangerous (which is what C/B do well). The Shibs are usually so clean and secure in how they execute (even if they lose levels) that it comes off as too controlled for a lot of people. They need to not lose control, but make it look like they're skating less controlled. I also think they could keep working on their actual dance ability and speed on the ice. I think speed does a lot to make people think there's abandon.

 

[douglasottawa]

I think they need to really hit all their levels and keep winning the judges over. Also, they need to skate as if the elements they're doing look a bit more dangerous (which is what C/B do well). The Shibs are usually so clean and secure in how they execute (even if they lose levels) that it comes off as too controlled for a lot of people. They need to not lose control, but make it look like they're skating less controlled. I also think they could keep working on their actual dance ability and speed on the ice. I think speed does a lot to make people think there's abandon.

That all sounds right, and I agree with executing their moves in a way that make them look a bit more dangerous as silly as that might sound. I think it is part of what Davis & White did effectively to help them surpass Virtue & Moir.

I think another thing that also might hurt them is they cant quite totally free from Chock & Bates. They are U.S #1 right now, but Chock & Bates still continue to remain threats. I thought after the GPF they might have finaly broken totally clear and the short dance results at Nationals looked that way bigtime, but then C&B post this huge FD score to win the FD, and are right back in contention again. So the USFSA has to split their support between 2 top teams, while Virtue & Moir, Papadakis & Cizeron, Capellini & Lanotte get full support from home. Bobrova & Soloviev might be back to that too now.

 

[VGThuy]

Marina needs to politick as she has never politicked before.

 

[douglasottawa]

Marina needs to politick as she has never politicked before.

I almost feel a bit gutted for Marina with Virtue & Moir's comeback going almost stunningly stellar, since it must be hard for her. I hope it isnt, and she is able to remember they were her students long time and be relatively happy for them, while still remaining competitive and doing all she can to get her teams competitive with/beating them. Maybe I am overassumming she and Virtue & Moir ended on bad terms, I dont really know that for sure. Just they made some comments at the Sochi post event press that all but screamed "we are never working with Marina again".

 

[chapis]

I watched that interview with C/B, and Madison said something very true, the pressure to be competing against each other really help/motivate them a lot to both teams. I am sure they want surpass to P/C and V/M but it is difficult and they could even to think is impossible but to have to other team breathing on your neck I think is even more motivating

And about Marina, she should be extra motivated to help to Maia and Alex to surpass to Tessa and Scott, to show us that it was not her fault V/M losing to D/W.

 

[VGThuy]

I watched that interview with C/B, and Madison said something very true, the pressure to be competing against each other really help/motivate them a lot to both teams.

And about Marina, she should be extra motivated to help to Maia and Alex to surpass to Tessa and Scott, to show us that it was not her fault V/M losing to D/W.

Send Marina a text please. That should light a fire under her.

 

[DreamsofBliss]

Okay, I dare not say this on any other ice dance thread, but I think the Shib's SD is more groundbreaking and fresh than V/M's Prince. There, I said it and now I feel better.

I don't really see VM's SD as groundbreaking or fresh, but it is very crowd pleasing with accessible music that carries special significance to a wide audience after Prince's death. The Shibs music seems to have been a barrier for some, but I see more and more people liking it as the season goes on, while VM really have very little they can add to theirs.

 

[VGThuy]

I will say Tessa and Scott really dance to the music which makes what they're doing with their blades really impressive. The Shibs have really improved the dancing in their SD from Skate America.

 

[gk_891]

Good to see them in 2nd place. But it's quite close between the teams in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Barring some sort of disaster, V&M will likely win the gold here. It'll be interesting to see who places 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Hopefully all the teams will hit their free dances and it'll be interesting to see who will come out on top.

 

[douglasottawa]

Wonderful short dance by the Shibs. Good enough to put them 2nd in this super strong field and keep a bit of pressure on V&M. The most encouraging thing is the significant PCS between them and Chock & Bates which was not happening even after Nationals last year. Their PCS are about the same ahead of C&B as behind V&M.

 

[sap5]

Okay, I dare not say this on any other ice dance thread, but I think the Shib's SD is more groundbreaking and fresh than V/M's Prince. There, I said it and now I feel better.

The music of the Shibs SD is by far the best. A truly thoughtful mix, as I've posted before. My issue is that they still don't sell it enough. You can have a low-key style, but you still need to bring it, and I'm not talking face or overly sharp movements or all the other WTF-ness we're seeing from many of the teams. It's an attitude of "we own this program, and this entire competition." It's exactly the attitude both Frank Sinatra and Jay-Z had/have, to be honest. And it's the attitude V/M put out with their Prince SD.

 

[VGThuy]

I think a bit more dancing in-between the elements and more moves in the middle of the SBS that matches the great opening and ending moves would fix that issue honestly.

 

[chapis]

I wonder if their problems with the levels are because they are always so precise, clean and clear that is very evident when they make a mistake. Like their twizzles, they are always perfect, the day they fail it will be very notorious.

 

[suki]

I give as much credence to the theory that Marina somehow was responsible for V/M's "loss" in 2014 as I do to sightings of Big Foot, Yetis, and space probes of humans by little green creatures. D/W just got better and outskated them for two seasons straight. No magic. Just hard work and talent.

 

[chapis]

I give as much credence to the theory that Marina somehow was responsible for V/M's "loss" in 2014 as I do to sightings of Big Foot, Yetis, and space probes of humans by little green creatures. D/W just got better and outskated them for two seasons straight. No magic. Just hard work and talent.

I don´t know, D/W are the flashy type of skaters, precisely what VIETgrlTerifa was saying, teams making to judges/people to believe that they are doing a difficult thing while it is not true.

 

[DreamsofBliss]

I will say Tessa and Scott really dance to the music which makes what they're doing with their blades really impressive. The Shibs have really improved the dancing in their SD from Skate America.

Fair enough but dancing well and performing well and taking ownership of the program doesn't make it groundbreaking. And I'm not really seeing anything new from competition to competition.

The Shibs and VM have had different careers and are at different points in their careers. It makes sense VM are more confident in general in their presentation. I hope the Shibs can get there, too.

I don´t know, D/W are the flashy type of skaters, precisely what VIETgrlTerifa was saying, teams making to judges/people to believe that they are doing a difficult thing while it is not true.

I disagree, however, I would argue it must take talent to fool so many people for so long that you are better than you are if that's the case.

 

[chapis]

Fair enough but dancing well and performing well and taking ownership of the program doesn't make it groundbreaking. And I'm not really seeing anything new from competition to competition.

The Shibs and VM have had different careers and are at different points in their careers. It makes sense VM are more confident in general in their presentation. I hope the Shibs can get there, too.



I disagree, however, I would argue it must take talent to fool so many people for so long that you are better than you are if that's the case.

You'd be amazed, and there are some teams right now doing the same.

 

[justtojoke]

 

[DreamsofBliss]

You'd be amazed, and there are some teams right now doing the same.

There are a lot of talented teams in ice dance