Seguin/Bilodeau, Firus out of Worlds

I think Kevin would have got the spot if he had the SP minimum. Why else would they have sent him out again?
 
pinky166 said:
Unless it actually was his decision? I'm not convinced it wasn't.
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I have a hard time believing this was on his own initiative. He's 23 years old and has never competed at the worlds before.

Also, in my own experience, elite athletes tend to be fairly confident in themselves - and their ability to do well. For someone at Firus' level to think "nah, I'll let another guy go, he'd probably do better than me..." is difficult to believe.

mag said:
I think Kevin would have got the spot if he had the SP minimum. Why else would they have sent him out again?
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I have the same sense...which actually makes me more annoyed - and happier that Nam is going than I would be if they'd pulled the same shenanigans and sent Kevin instead.
 
mag said:
I think Kevin would have got the spot if he had the SP minimum. Why else would they have sent him out again?
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I think Kevin would have gotten the spot if he earned a higher score than Nguyen - but even if he had achieved the minimum score in the short at Sportland he would still be about 13 points behind Nguyen's lowest score this season - given his combined score last weekend. I do not think he would have earned the spot even if he had earned the required SP score. He would have had to prove to SC that he could be a contender for a top 10 finish and if he is 15 points behind Nguyen (as he is right now), it is highly unlikely that he would achieve that ranking at Worlds given the added pressure.
 
If SC does not believe in Firus in the first place, they should have sent Nguyen to 4CC too. Many skaters from North America performed poorly at 4CC because they were tired. It is not fair that only Nguyen was given benefit of the doubt.
 
Wait.. I'm not sure I understand. This is the 2016 Worlds, so why does it matter if we get 2 or 3 spots at the end? The Olympic qualifier is NEXT year's worlds, so wouldn't that be more important for securing spots than this one? In other words, did Firus really have to w/d from this year's competition?
 
This reminds me of Tarasova taking Euro away from Menshov and giving it to her beloved Kovtun. Kovtun did well at Euro, but bombed at Worlds.
 
Very surprised and disappointed for these three, particularly for Firus since his withdrawal was not injury related.
 
:respec:I can totally see a Canadian skater taking one for the team - good for him. Liam knows better than anyone how his training is going, if he doesn't feel confident that he'll do well at Worlds then he's made a very intelligent decision. I'll be looking forward to cheering him on next season.
 
WildRose said:
:respec:I can totally see a Canadian skater taking one for the team - good for him. Liam knows better than anyone how his training is going, if he doesn't feel confident that he'll do well at Worlds then he's made a very intelligent decision. I'll be looking forward to cheering him on next season.
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I don't see why so many people are rejecting this as a possibility.
 
The Accordion said:
I don't see why so many people are rejecting this as a possibility.
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Well, I'm not buying it. Liam got to Sochi (where his result was quite poor), but he has never made it to Worlds. The fact that he stayed in after Sochi shows that he is working as hard as anyone to succeed.

Trips to Worlds don't happen for most skaters and it is never a guarantee... why would he just give up on what could be his only chance to skate at the World Championships? I don't think that any competitive elite athlete is that much of a martyr.
 
It's a shame we won't see that stunning short of S/B once more. My absolute favourite short program of the season.
(right now, i cannot see canada hold on to the 3 pairs spots; so i/m and m-t/m better have the skate of their life in boston, it's their place to lose next year)

Very sorry for Firus; this sounds very odd. Such a shame.
 
A non-injury replacement for Worlds after an announcement already took place is a first to my knowledge.

There is precedent for Skate Canada bypassing skaters for Worlds/Olympics selection

1980 Worlds (Wainman over Kemkaran and Morrissey)
1984 Olympics (Eggleton over Forbes)
2002 Worlds (Ferreira over Denommee)

There have been instances where Worlds/Olympics spots weren't used

1992 Olympics (Mann/Noria)
1997 Worlds (Wing/Lowe)
1998 Worlds (Hebert)

and there have been instances where Four Continents determined the Worlds spot

2000 (Ferreira over Sandhu)
2001 (Bellemare over Watt)
2012 (Lacoste over Phaneuf)
 
Oh, Nam it!!! :D Happy to be seeing Nam in Boston. He was 5th in the world last year, World Jr champ the previous year. This is a huge opportunity for him to get back on track.
 
It makes no sense, from an athlete's perspective, for Firus to have withdrawn from Worlds. It can make a difference to things like your coaching career (if that's his current and future career interest) to be able to say that you are an Olys and Worlds participant. And personally, it's just a huge deal to have made the World team. To have withdrawn on his own volition, because, what, he's a nice Canadian guy? This makes no sense, and I wonder if something else is going on.
 
marbri said:
Wasn't there a lot of drama of the treatment of Mirai Nagasu a while back? People pissed off Wagner got the spot instead of her (as she finished ahead of her) while others thought Edmunds (who came second) shouldn't get the spot because Mirai was more experienced? What was that about if it wasn't about spots?
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Like others said, this was about the O team. But even if it wasn't about the O team, look at the US worlds selection discussion 2009 (how Mroz needed to go to jr worlds), 2011 and 2009 (Abbott and Weir should have been chosen to worlds), Czisny in 2012, Flatt in 2011 -- the discussions re: worlds selection for the US team is always 10 times longer, with multiple rehashes. ;)
 
Bummer - I was really looking forward to seeing Liam in Boston. He's one of my favorite skaters despite the jump issues and was going to be a highlight of the men's event for me.
 
Disappointed in Liam if it was his decision to pull out, he earned his spot on the team fair and square and should have fought till the end. Just look at Chartrand, she skated poorly internationally all season long but she is not giving up. If it was the decision of Skate Canada though, it doesn't reflect well at all on Slipchuk et comp.

Wishing Julianne speedy recovery.
 
Liam said on his twitter that he feels like Gilmore Junio, a Canadian speed skater who gave up his spot in the 1000m at the Olympics (after finishing 10th in the 500m at Olympics) to Denny Morrison who had fallen at the Olympic Trials. Denny went on to win the silver medal in that Olympic race. Gilmore says in his talk that it was Denny and the 2010 Olympic team that inspired him to not quit the sport. Also looks like Denny was on the comeback trail from an injury in early 2014 based on a youtube video. Doesn't hurt that he has the face of an angel either. ;)

Here is Denny at 1:10 falling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHxtS2t8kJ8

Here is Gilmore's Ted talk about it- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psN_qlfhdws

And a more succint story about the event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTDcQYRV5-4

It's a whole pay it forward thing, it sounds like Liam did this on his own accord. Essentially, a guy without a 3axel, and a really unreliable quad is in trouble at Worlds. Perhaps he thinks another season will make a difference. Hopefully Nam does better at Worlds than Nationals.
 
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I imagine it's a not easy decision for Liam. He was talking about how disappointing of Sochi experience is at the nationals, and he trained like crazy for the redemption. But eventually he put his country and countrymen truly above himself. He earned a fan in me today. I wish him the very best in the future, and hope he can return to the world or Olympics one day to have a real closure.
 
Seerek said:
There is precedent for Skate Canada bypassing skaters for Worlds/Olympics selection

1980 Worlds (Wainman over Kemkaran and Morrissey)
1984 Olympics (Eggleton over Forbes)
2002 Worlds (Ferreira over Denommee)
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Also, 2004 Worlds: Rochette Robinson over Phaneuf, who was the National Champion and age-eligible but new to the Senior level internationally.

My two cents (in U.S. currency): They should have sent Firus. It would have been the sporting thing to do.
 
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I think it was Robinson over Phaneuf since she was 3rd at nationals if memory serves.
They did position it as Barabe's decision to send Phaneuf to JWs. At the time I believed it although she may have been influenced.

My understanding with Eggleton was that the decision was made before nationals to send Junior Champ to Olympics so it was no surprise that Eggleton was named.

Still I'm in shocked that Liam was bumped off the team with no skateoff or any other activity under the guise of fairness.
 
Vagabond said:
Also, 2004 Worlds: Rochette over Phaneuf, who was the National Champion and age-eligible but new to the Senior level internationally.

My two cents (in U.S. currency): They should have sent Firus. It would have been the sporting thing to do.
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That was Robinson over Phaneuf, although the Pfaneuf team insisted that Pfaneuf wanted to go to Jr. Worlds instead, IIRC because her BBF Dube was going in Pairs. Rochette struggled with the SP at Nationals, but won the FS to place 2nd over Robinson. Robinson got a lot of heat, and I remember her poise in an interview after the announcement was made.

We don't have pennies anymore in Canada :)

BTW, the Jr. Men's podium at 2004 Can Nats was Radford, Moscovitch, Chipeur.
 
Beyond crushed about S/B. As for CAN2 and CAN3 yes it will be tough to keep 3 but if D/R medal a top 10 is possible. Looks scary based on season's best scores but both teams have improved a lot since the fall. I don't put much weight into 4CC because it's just a difficult event to do well in because of timing and distance.

Slots 6-12 or 14 or so are such a crap shoot. Very competitive, very tight. There will be meltdown skates and there will be positive surprises. Can happen to anyone. I can't even try to predict what's going to happen in pairs as there just isn't much educated guessing on this one that will get you very far. Will make the event an incredible one to watch.
 
skateboy said:
Well, I'm not buying it. Liam got to Sochi (where his result was quite poor), but he has never made it to Worlds. The fact that he stayed in after Sochi shows that he is working as hard as anyone to succeed.

Trips to Worlds don't happen for most skaters and it is never a guarantee... why would he just give up on what could be his only chance to skate at the World Championships? I don't think that any competitive elite athlete is that much of a martyr.
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I am not saying it is the case - But what IF he is skating very poorly? What if his jumps have regressed and he didn't believe he could be competitive? What if he feared going to World's and bit making the freeskate and if he believed it wasn't worth the risk? That he would rather keep training and try again when he could be competitive? And he knew he had to make the decision now? I am just suggesting that this scenario is not completely impossible - especially considering the references to the speed skater giving up his place to allow someone who had a better chance to compete?
 
Liam fell 4 times at 4 Continents only a few weeks ago, finishing 14th in the short program & only 13th overall. Clearly he's struggling with his jumps and doesn't want to skate poorly at Worlds Like he did at the last Olympics. To have that happen again in a major international competition would be disastrous for his confidence. I expect he consulted with his coach and talked to Skate Canada, and it was agreed by all concerned that it would be better for him, and the team, if he to were to pull out and work towards next season. Right now Nam has a better chance of getting Canada 3 spots along with Chan, and that increases Liam's chance of getting to another Worlds and to the next Olympics. It was no doubt a tough decision, but he's obviously thinking long term and not just about this season.
 
WildRose said:
Liam fell 4 times at 4 Continents only a few weeks ago, finishing 14th in the short program & only 13th overall. Clearly he's struggling with his jumps and doesn't want to skate poorly at Worlds Like he did at the last Olympics. To have that happen again in a major international competition would be disastrous for his confidence. I expect he consulted with his coach and talked to Skate Canada, and it was agreed by all concerned that it would be better for him, and the team, if he to were to pull out and work towards next season. Right now Nam has a better chance of getting Canada 3 spots along with Chan, and that increases Liam's chance of getting to another Worlds and to the next Olympics. It was no doubt a tough decision, but he's obviously thinking long term and not just about this season.
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This scenario isn't impossible, but it's also based on a lot of assumptions that we don't have any proof of one way or another. Firus has often struggled with his performance at big events (other than Canadians) so I'm not sure that the potential of one more sub-par finish would be that disastrous to his confidence that he should withdraw.

From a strategic point of view, with Firus, Nguyen, Reynolds and now Nadeau in the running behind Chan, it's a risky strategy for Firus to take himself out of the spot he's earned - particularly if he plans to continue competing next year.
 
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