Save Women's Sport - the pearl clutching begins

Aussie Willy

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There has been a lot of media coverage lately about transgender athletes competing in women's sport, particularly in GQP states where they are introducing laws banning transgender athletes from competing in women's sports. It has just become a hot topic in Australia because a politician has introduced a private member's bill into Australian Parliament about it. For reference I have found a website on the topic but also and article to give it some context.



In fact the politician who is one of my local members, was interviewed on radio and could not name anyone who had approached her about it or basically refused to name anyone.

From my perspective as a sports administrator for figure skating here in Australia, I do not see this as a problem. In fact it is just another means to put down transgender people generally. We had same sex marriage, a recent religious discrimination bill that was withdrawn because of issues around transgender demonisation and discrimination, and now this.

I would like to think that figure is one of the most inclusive environments. In fact apart from Mens and Womens Singles, everything is or can be a mixed event. If you are looking for where the dangers and risks are it has been sexual abuse at hands of mainly male coaches, skating partnerships where the male has been abusive and coaches who are obsessed with winning at all costs.

What are people's thoughts on this? Surely these issues can be dealt with on a case by case basis rather than legislating about this sort of things. Because it creates the perception that it is the norm rather than the exception.
 
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MacMadame

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I think figure skating is different from a lot of sports because transgender women don't have an advantage over cis women. But I do think this issue may come up when it comes to Pairs and Dance. We already saw caseyedwards saying C-G/LeD should not be qualified to be in Pairs because Pairs is a man and a woman and Timothy is non-binary.
 

Aussie Willy

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I think figure skating is different from a lot of sports because transgender women don't have an advantage over cis women. But I do think this issue may come up when it comes to Pairs and Dance. We already saw caseyedwards saying C-G/LeD should not be qualified to be in Pairs because Pairs is a man and a woman and Timothy is non-binary.
Timothy still did everything that was required to compete in the event.

I found about this by a relative who supported the bill. We had an hour long discussion about it. They kept bringing up things such as change rooms. Boy I haven't told them that synchro teams who are mixed us the same change rooms.
 

MacMadame

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Timothy still did everything that was required to compete in the event.
Could you elaborate on that? What was he required to do? I can't imagine what these things could be since, AFAIK, no one checks these things at all.

But don't get me started on Changing rooms and bathrooms...
 

Seerek

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In the United States, it will definitely be front page news next month at the NCAA Division I Swimming Championships when Penn's Lia Thomas competes.
 

Aussie Willy

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Could you elaborate on that? What was he required to do? I can't imagine what these things could be since, AFAIK, no one checks these things at all.

But don't get me started on Changing rooms and bathrooms...
Hmmm the technical requirements for the program.
 

AxelAnnie

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In sports where build, breath capacity and a gazillion things come into performance, people need to compete in the category that coincides with their body gender when they were born.

Men (whether they are Trans or whatever, have different bodies than girls)

Yesterday Caitlin Jenner and Tammy Bruce did a rather stunning interview on Fox. Both were eloquent and firmly believe that having biological boys compete with biological girls gives an unfair advantage to the boys.

Have you listened to any of the swimmers talk? There is no hate in what they say.....just frustration and anxiety. For the athlete, it is often that a college scholarship is at stake. If you cannot finish first, you are at quite a handicap. And interestingly enough. Lia Thomas has won all of her meets while skating as a boy with the girls.

There are just things that are immutable truths. One of those truths is that boys are stronger, faster, etc. than girls.
 

Aussie Willy

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In the United States, it will definitely be front page news next month at the NCAA Division I Swimming Championships when Penn's Lia Thomas competes.
Interesting. So far the senator presenting this bill has only quoted this as a justification for it. Hasn't provided any other examples when asked.
 

AxelAnnie

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In the United States, it will definitely be front page news next month at the NCAA Division I Swimming Championships when Penn's Lia Thomas competes.
Yep - surprising result. Especially since next year, she/he will be competing as a man. The logic escapes me (except for it means more money for someone).
 

overedge

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There are just things that are immutable truths. One of those truths is that boys are stronger, faster, etc. than girls.

No. It depends on the sport and on the capabilities of the individual athlete.

And frankly Caitlyn Jenner has very outdated ideas on gender and sport. AFAIK she hasn't competed in any sports since her transition, and hasn't been an elite athlete since retiring after the Olympics. Other than her own gender-related experiences, she's not an expert on this topic.
 

Aussie Willy

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Could you elaborate on that? What was he required to do? I can't imagine what these things could be since, AFAIK, no one checks these things at all.

But don't get me started on Changing rooms and bathrooms...
You do realise that mixed synchro teams all use the same change room.
 

AxelAnnie

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There has been a lot of media coverage lately about transgender athletes competing in women's sport, particularly in GQP states where they are introducing laws banning transgender athletes from competing in women's sports. It has just become a hot topic in Australia because a politician has introduced a private member's bill into Australian Parliament about it. For reference I have found a website on the topic but also and article to give it some context.



In fact the politician who is one of my local members, was interviewed on radio and could not name anyone who had approached her about it or basically refused to name anyone.

From my perspective as a sports administrator for figure skating here in Australia, I do not see this as a problem. In fact it is just another means to put down transgender people generally. We had same sex marriage, a recent religious discrimination bill that was withdrawn because of issues around transgender demonisation and discrimination, and now this.

I would like to think that figure is one of the most inclusive environments. In fact apart from Mens and Womens Singles, everything is or can be a mixed event. If you are looking for where the dangers and risks are it has been sexual abuse at hands of mainly male coaches, skating partnerships where the male has been abusive and coaches who are obsessed with winning at all costs.

What are people's thoughts on this? Surely these issues can be dealt with on a case by case basis rather than legislating about this sort of things. Because it creates the perception that it is the norm rather than the exception.
Mixed changing rooms is not, IMO, the issue. It is the difference in ability between men and women that is at issue. Men and women are different. Should not be a hard concept.
 

MacMadame

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AFAIK she hasn't competed in any sports since her transition
She participated in a golf tournament in the Women's division so she's a f'ing hypocrite on top of everything else.

You do realise that mixed synchro teams all use the same change room.
Don't get me started means I could go on and on about how stupid those arguments are...
 

MacMadame

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Really? Why is it a stupid argument? It is a reality, not an argument.
The argument that trans women are going into bathrooms flashing their penises around is stupid. No one does that. And some trans women I know have bottom surgery and don't even have penises. (More would have it but it's expensive. Maybe solve that problem instead.)

Not to mention, in some countries they build the bathroom so you have true privacy and make them co-ed. Why don't we do that? Having good privacy in the bathroom would make me happy and I'm not even trans.

I told you not to get me started...
 

Aussie Willy

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The argument that trans women are going into bathrooms flashing their penises around is stupid. No one does that. And some trans women I know have bottom surgery and don't even have penises. (More would have it but it's expensive. Maybe solve that problem instead.)

Not to mention, in some countries they build the bathroom so you have true privacy and make them co-ed. Why don't we do that? Having good privacy in the bathroom would make me happy and I'm not even trans.

I told you not to get me started...
Haha I totally get you there. I even hate going into a public toilet where everyone else can hear you. :)
 

AxelAnnie

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You put that comment under quoting me. Was that not intended to respond to me?
Sorry. I thought everyone would be able to read my mind. I was referring to Post 13. I am just going to claim the Covid defense. I think I may have lost the very little brain I have left. BTW I love Australia.
 

Aussie Willy

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Yeah, North American toilets suck. Though not as much as those places where the toilet is basically a hole in the ground. :D
Oh yeah I hate North American toilets. My least favourite part of visiting US & Canada. Otherwise it is all good. :)

Getting back to the subject, the legislation is not getting a lot of support. It is seen as just another move attacking trans people after a few recent pieces of legislation that have done the same. Good thing they have not succeeded.
 

skatingguy

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Oh yeah I hate North American toilets. My least favourite part of visiting US & Canada. Otherwise it is all good. :)
I don't know the difference between a North American toilet & an Australian toilet, so I Googled it and many of the pictures that came up were of snakes in toilets, so I think I'll stick with the North American toilet thank-you very much. Don't need no toilet snake curled up in my toilet.
 

Aussie Willy

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I don't know the difference between a North American toilet & an Australian toilet, so I Googled it and many of the pictures that came up were of snakes in toilets, so I think I'll stick with the North American toilet thank-you very much. Don't need no toilet snake curled up in my toilet.
:rofl: Did you find pictures of redback spiders?
 

Aussie Willy

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I think I stopped after the snakes - :huh: you have spiders that live in your toilets too? And you prefer your snake & spider toilets to our toilets - strange people these Australians. šŸ¤Ŗ
Yep in outback dunnies. Which is another word we use for toilet. As in "I have to go to the dunny". There is also a place in Queensland called Dunny Doo. And you guessed it, it has a giant dunny in the town.

Thus endeth the lesson for today :)
 

Aussie Willy

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I attended a small rally here in Hobart today. Senator Chandler who has submitted this bill was talking at a forum run by a group called the "Coalition for Biological Reality". There were less than a dozen people standing outside in support of the legislation. They were totally outnumbered by those who were protesting the legislation.

I am so sick of right-wing liberals making issues out of trans people. While they get traction in the US, they are generally not supported in Australia.
 

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