Repercussions of Papadakis' book & Cizeron's response

[Theatregirl1122]

People really will go to any length to excuse men and blame and silence victims.

And then they ask why victims don’t come forward

 

[Willin]

When it comes to other people, I go by actions, not by what people say about them. People are often wrong about the character of other people. And even their own character, if it comes to that.


I did not say she shouldn't say anything. I said she shouldn't say anything about him. She said a lot of things about how this situation impacted her and I didn't object to any of it as she is one of the subjects of the documentary and therefore it was relevant. I only objected to her declaring that she was 100% sure he was innocent. There was no need to do that. No one would have known she was still dating him if she hadn't told us.

And, as I said, I find her declarations less than compelling. Her "100% innocent" boyfriend was accused, thoroughly investigated and, unlike with many, many accusations, got a SIX-YEAR ban. And his appeal was not "you overlooked this evidence" or "you considered the evidence wrongly" but "you don't have jurisdiction."

This is not a case where there is a lot of ambiguity or wiggle room. In our system, many, many more rapists get off than are wrongly convicted. In most cases where the accusation is false, that comes out well before anyone is punished. While there is a theoretical chance he is innocent. It is minuscule. Like 0.0000001%.

It's HARD to get banned. Plenty of rapists both in court and in sport have gotten away with it because there's "not enough evidence." There being enough evidence in this case really says something about the likelihood of him being guilty.

Well that and the fact that his defense was a legal technicality, NOT that the evidence was poor.

 

[MsZem]

That's not being victimized. That's essentially losing a job, which can happen to people in any occupation, and not always because of anything they personally did or were involved with.

Losing a job is traumatic, and if it's a wrongful termination, it's also victimizing. And a skating partnership (which in this case also involves a romantic relationship) is a lot more than just a job. Isn't that apparent in what Papadakis wrote, too?

I don't think LFB is in the same category as the survivor by any means; not even close. But she has been placed in a very difficult position by someone she loves and trusts, and that's a hard thing to deal with.

 

[PRlady]

People delude themselves about romantic partners all the time. I did for years in my second marriage. He wasn’t a rapist but he was a nasty jerk, as evidenced by something he didn’t tell me about until years after we divorced. I know that almost all my friends said “finally!” To themselves when we split up.

I’d like to think that if he had done something illegal to hurt someone else I would have turned him in and left him much earlier but can’t be sure. Humans are so good at self-delusion.

 

[Desperado]

Anyone see LFB walk in the opening ceremony, holding on to Cizeron's arm for dear life?

Girl doesn't even want to walk in the Olympics on her own? It was creepy and sad.

 

[overedge]

I don't think LFB is in the same category as the survivor by any means; not even close. But she has been placed in a very difficult position by someone she loves and trusts, and that's a hard thing to deal with.

Her paralleling herself with the survivor's being a victim is exactly what bothers me about her public statements.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

The other issue is that Laurence may be a victim, but only of Nikolaj's choices. She seems to think she's been victimized by the ACTUAL victim.

 

[my little pony]

when Nik was banned, how many more comps did he have in him? one of his body parts, I think his back, seemed very rickety

 

[hereforthevibes]

The evidence is not public and it definitely is not part of the legal system so legally he’s definitely not guilty of anything.

That's not how that works. The absence of a trial does not make him not guilty - it means he did not face a trial. A jury would have had to decide the evidence did not meet the standard of proof, which did not happen.

Edit: I won't labor the point, but I agree that viewers can make opinions on who to support without a legal standard of proof. I'll just add that comments like this is what makes it harder for victims to come out. You think that "legally he's definitely not guilty" despite him not being charged or indicted, let alone convicted. Imagine a Safesport official reviewing a case with your mindset. It's their job to do an independent investigation. What does his (lack of) criminal history have to do with that?

 

[skateboy]

and who else has publicly stood up with words and conviction for Sorensen?

there were vague comments, cropped instagram photos, mostly anonymous and silence.
silence from people around him because they didn’t want to say much because they don’t want to have questions from journalists? But we could all agree that he is most likely believed to be innocent by his former coaches and many of his former skating friends. and if anything, I am sorry that Brennan is not targeting IAM coaches , Who have known Sorensen longer than Laurance , as he was one of their very first students. They have provided him a protection of the institution they have built over the years. or maybe Skate Canada given that they have acquired Sorenson from Denmark and made sure he got citizenship.

We can always say something vague like everybody is different. I can share that in six years that I worked with victims of rape and sexual assault, for those whose rapist were not their spouse, partner ( and those are major majority in general and those that I’ve met) ect but either a stranger or somebody more distant like an acquaintance, those victims were more worried about not being believed by their circle that they were raped.
Those were primary reasons for not reporting aside from some others that I have already mentioned in previous post. Not everyone can handle telling their story over and over again, and re digging their trauma for the sake of maybe having a police investigation and maybe going to trial.

Okay, I'm chiming in.

I mentioned this several years ago, but I had a very close friend (male) who had a large class of young cello students. He was a very friendly, "huggy" type of guy, he loved everyone, including his young students... he hugged us all, adults and children. And he did it very publicly (think Jason Brown).

So one of his young students (a boy) was told, in an elementary school class, that if an adult has ever touched you, then you must report it to your teacher, police, etc. So this student told his school teacher that his cello teacher hugged him. The school teacher reported it to the police immediately.

My friend was arrested and charged with sexual assault on a child, taken to jail and got out on a bond. Spent months hiring a lawyer and disputing the charges. After all was said and done, he decided to plead no contest, to avoid a very public trial and possible prison sentence.

My friend never sexually assaulted a child. The news of his arrest made all the local headlines, so the public assumed he was a disgusting pedophile and deserved the harshest punishment. He was a brilliant musician, but was never hired again, ever. His close friends knew he was a good guy. But he lost his entire reason for living, and died of a heart attack just a few years later, penniless.

I'm saying this, @kosjenka , to agree that not everyone accused of sexual assault is guilty. And I miss my friend, he was a wonderful person.

As for Sorenson, it's an entirely different story. Sorry, but I am inclined to believe his accuser.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm sorry, but the police don't arrest someone because a kid said they were hugged. And they don't plead no contest if it was just a hug.

 

[skateboy]

I'm sorry, but the police don't arrest someone because a kid said they were hugged. And they don't plead no contest if it was just a hug.

Not true. The parents didn't know what to think, as they were merely informed by the police. And I taught one of their daughters. The teacher involved just knew what they heard from the kid, and reported it to the police. It happened.

I do think it's rare. But my friend was scared out of his wits and didn't know what else to do.

 

[MacMadame]

Not true. The parents didn't know what to think, as they were merely informed by the police. And I taught one of their daughters. The teacher involved just knew what they heard from the kid, and reported it to the police. It happened.

I do think it's rare. But my friend was scared out of his wits and didn't know what else to do.

I'm sure something was reported to the police. But they don't just go arrest someone without doing an investigation. They would interview the kid and other kids and adults.

 

[skateboy]

I'm sure something was reported to the police. But they don't just go arrest someone without doing an investigation. They would interview the kid and other kids and adults.

Not in this case. My friend was arrested immediately, and the newspapers had a field day with it.

The parents disallowed the child to be interviewed.

As mentioned, I think Sorenson is guilty as hell. I only posted to assure @kosjenka that yes, sometimes people are unjustly accused.

Happy to PM you with more details about my friend's case.