No-Longer-Prince Andrew

ok, sorry, I was just trying to find a place really far away for the king to send Andres to live. I thought there might be a royal cottage there? I did not mean have his pic in the local library, rather he move there to be out of sight for awhile.
 
Winnipeg said:
Re the reference to Epstein providing finances to Fergie and possibly to B and E, is that true? I thought Fergie had money problems because she spent more than she had but I was unaware that was true for the girls who would have their own finances?
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Read "Entitled". The author does a very in-depth analysis of Fergie's income and expenditures. She didn't just spend more than she had, she had a very extravagant lifestyle and left unpaid bills all over the place. And she did more than a few shady business deals, not just taking money from Epstein.

Epstein was a horrific person but he was also very smart. He identified people that were vulnerable - in Fergie's case, emotionally and financially vulnerable - and he knew how to effectively exploit those vulnerabilities.
 
overedge said:
Read "Entitled". The author does a very in-depth analysis of Fergie's income and expenditures. She didn't just spend more than she had, she had a very extravagant lifestyle and left unpaid bills all over the place. And she did more than a few shady business deals, not just taking money from Epstein.

Epstein was a horrific person but he was also very smart. He identified people that were vulnerable - in Fergie's case, emotionally and financially vulnerable - and he knew how to effectively exploit those vulnerabilities.
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I find that description "financially vulnerable" thought provoking. Just off the top of my head but I can't help but wonder if that has been and will continue to be a problem for siblings/cousins who are not heirs to the throne and don't have the financial security that goes with it. They grow up in palaces, go to the very best of schools, mix with the most wealthy and privileged, are called HRH but what in fact do they really inherit? They no doubt feel entitled to the best that life has to offer but can neither provide that themselves or receive it thanks to the taxpayers. They may live in some huge home but it takes a fortune to keep a place like that up. I am not excusing Andrew and Fergie's behaviour but can see where someone lacking in scruples would sell position, influence, their soul to the highest bidder and feel somewhat entitled to do so.
 
puglover said:
I find that description "financially vulnerable" thought provoking. Just off the top of my head but I can't help but wonder if that has been and will continue to be a problem for siblings/cousins who are not heirs to the throne and don't have the financial security that goes with it. They grow up in palaces, go to the very best of schools, mix with the most wealthy and privileged, are called HRH but what in fact do they really inherit? They no doubt feel entitled to the best that life has to offer but can neither provide that themselves or receive it thanks to the taxpayers. They may live in some huge home but it takes a fortune to keep a place like that up. I am not excusing Andrew and Fergie's behaviour but can see where someone lacking in scruples would sell position, influence, their soul to the highest bidder and feel somewhat entitled to do so.
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All of the late Queen Mother's grandchildren as well as her great-grandchildren born before her death in 2001 (with the exception of Charles & maybe William as direct heirs) received generous trust funds from her estate. Harry also has a trust fund from his mother's estate. It's not known whether the late QEII set up trust funds for her children, grandchildren & great-grandchildren but one has to think she did. With a good financial advisor, they're all set up for a very comfortable lifestyle. The problem with Andrew & Sarah (and likely with Harry & Meghan) is their lifestyle has been lavish & excessive.
 
Well, maybe their parents should have a financial come-to- Jesus talk with them in their very early teens and ensure they begin preparing to support themselves as adults. But that would assume the royal parents know how the 99% world works, which is not a given
 
puglover said:
I find that description "financially vulnerable" thought provoking. Just off the top of my head but I can't help but wonder if that has been and will continue to be a problem for siblings/cousins who are not heirs to the throne and don't have the financial security that goes with it. They grow up in palaces, go to the very best of schools, mix with the most wealthy and privileged, are called HRH but what in fact do they really inherit? They no doubt feel entitled to the best that life has to offer but can neither provide that themselves or receive it thanks to the taxpayers. They may live in some huge home but it takes a fortune to keep a place like that up. I am not excusing Andrew and Fergie's behaviour but can see where someone lacking in scruples would sell position, influence, their soul to the highest bidder and feel somewhat entitled to do so.
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Well, the only current heirs to the throne with a reasonable chance to inherit it are William and Kate's kids. Andrew's in the line of succession but something really awful would have to happen for him to become King.

Andrew apparently has, or had, money that he inherited from his mother and grandmother. That has been his main income, along with whatever his brother has given him or not required him to pay, and whatever his mother gave him during her lifetime. But pretty much all of that is gone.

Fergie isn't from a titled family, but because her dad was a polo manager for the Royals, she was around them all the time when she was growing up. Most of whatever money she has is from Andrew or from shady financial deals. She netted almost nothing from her books and her other "ventures".

But the bigger issue is that for both of them, they want everything, and nothing is enough for them. Like when Fergie went on tours in the US to promote her kids' books, she demanded five-star hotels wherever she stayed. And she would come back with literally dozens of suitcases of clothes, furnishings, etc that she bought. That's ridiculous considering the number of copies that those books sold. She's not JK Rowling or Dav Pilkey.

They're both incredibly greedy and will do whatever they can to bring in cash. And they both have huge egos. Epstein saw both of those things, and exploited them.
 
I still like the idea of a wax copy of him in the back seat of the police car looking shocked be installed into Madam Toussauds.

The real Andrew could reside in prison but the wax of the dumbfounded Andy at good old MT's.
 
WRT royals supporting themselves, they have so much opportunity to establish a career from getting the best education (without a loan to pay off), the best contacts, the best of really everything to enhance their chances of success. How could you not succeed with all those opportunities?
 
Here's the thing. There's a bunch of royalty/royal adjacents who are lazy, entitled, snobby, etc. I'd like to believe few of them were at No Longer Prince Andrew and Fergie's level. They didn't pal around with pedophiles.
 
Winnipeg said:
WRT royals supporting themselves, they have so much opportunity to establish a career from getting the best education (without a loan to pay off), the best contacts, the best of really everything to enhance their chances of success. How could you not succeed with all those opportunities?
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For one thing, they've grown up inside a closed circle of family, friends, organizations, etc, all around the same level of wealth and resources. So they have very little idea of how the rest of the world functions on a day to day basis. They also have very little idea of how to do things independently, or even how regular people behave toward each other. Shaking hands at staged events, or interacting with hired staff, may be the limit of their experiences outside their own circles.

There's also practical issues. Royals generally have security, which might be hard to accommodate in a lot of workplaces. The media attention that goes along with having a Royal as an employee (think of when Diana was working at a childcare while dating Charles) could also be hugely disruptive. They can't really build a career the same way that non-Royal people can, by (theoretically) doing entry-level jobs and working their way up.
 
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overedge said:
For one thing, they've grown up inside a closed circle of family, friends, organizations, etc, all around the same level of wealth and resources. So they have very little idea of how the rest of the world functions on a day to day basis. They also have very little idea of how to do things independently, or even how regular people behave toward each other.

There's also practical issues. Royals generally have security, which might be hard to accommodate in a lot of workplaces. The media attention that goes along with having a Royal as an employee (think of when Diana was working at a childcare while dating Charles) could also be hugely disruptive.
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Do they? They definitely don't have publicly funded security unless they're performing royal duties, except for the King & Queen and the Wales family. They may have private security, but I doubt, unless they're as full of themselves as Andrew, that it's 24/7. My impression is that most of them go about their lives with little fuss and not a lot of security apparatus, not at all dissimilar to most Hollywood celebrities.

We don't hear stories about the Kent or Gloucester cousins having airs or being unable to hold down a job; same with Princess Margaret's descendants. And, as far as I can tell, Princess Anne's children seem to have their heads screwed on straight with regard to a decent work ethic & good financial management. Prince Edward's kids are still in school but they both look to be pretty sensible and prefer keeping out of the spotlight.

The real issue is with the Yorks - and, in all likelihood, down the line, the Sussexes. Both are entitled, arrogant, over-indulged men who married women who were just as narcissistic as they were & it's been a recipe for disaster, especially for Andrew because it's becoming quite clear that neither of his parents ever held him accountable for any misbehavior or held him to a high standard regarding his associates & financial dealings during the 66 years he's been on this earth.
 
Karen-W said:
The real issue is with the Yorks - and, in all likelihood, down the line, the Sussexes. Both are entitled, arrogant, over-indulged men who married women who were just as narcissistic as they were & it's been a recipe for disaster, especially for Andrew because it's becoming quite clear that neither of his parents ever held him accountable for any misbehavior or held him to a high standard regarding his associates & financial dealings during the 66 years he's been on this earth.
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Well this is a stretch.... based on nothing but your personal dislike of the Sussexes. Lumping them in with Andrew and Fergie and their various misdeads is really gross.
 
Habs said:
Well this is a stretch.... based on nothing but your personal dislike of the Sussexes. Lumping them in with Andrew and Fergie and their various misdeads is really gross.
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Say you now. But consider some of the misdeeds of Harry in his youth - things he wrote about himself in Spare - and ask yourself how much else was covered up? It's not a stretch to wonder if he's just as degenerate in his own way as Andrew was in his. And Harry & Meghan appear to be living an extravagant lifestyle beyond their financial means. There are plenty of Hollywood powerbrokers who've made it clear, after 6 years in SoCal, they consider the Sussexes to be lazy grifters.

It's neither here nor there. Time will prove the truth of who is right about the Sussexes.
 
Karen-W said:
Say you now. But consider some of the misdeeds of Harry in his youth - things he wrote about himself in Spare - and ask yourself how much else was covered up? It's not a stretch to wonder if he's just as degenerate in his own way as Andrew was in his. And Harry & Meghan appear to be living an extravagant lifestyle beyond their financial means. There are plenty of Hollywood powerbrokers who've made it clear, after 6 years in SoCal, they consider the Sussexes to be lazy grifters.

It's neither here nor there. Time will prove the truth of who is right about the Sussexes.
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Um there's a huge difference between being a pothead and a bit of a layabout and actually being a pedo.
 
I agree 100% that from a personal behaviour and criminality standpoint there is no comparison between the Yorks and the Sussexes. Agree with @canbelto's characterization above in that regard, totally.

However, since the discussion was on financials etc, I do think there are some parallels and one hopes that Harry, still in the early stages of this, might learn something from where his uncle and aunt have ended up. Harry for sure has done important charity work, so that's a step ahead, and hopefully he continues to use his position and circumstances to make positive, meaningful impacts in the world - there's still time, still potential.

But for me, it's the wives and their "brands" and their myriad start/stop projects and ventures, and the constant need to be in the spotlight whether through random appearances or associating themselves with people they think can get them further. Again, so far the Sussexes are still hanging in there, but by now surely they've had time to get it together and forge a path that is solid and set up for long term success? It doesn't appear so, still so scattered and inconsistent, like is there even a plan other than to be famous, and in Meghan's case, an influencer? Is that even a thing anymore, really? This is where I would hope that Harry in particular takes an objective look around and learns something from all this.
 
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Karen-W said:
Do they? They definitely don't have publicly funded security unless they're performing royal duties, except for the King & Queen and the Wales family. They may have private security, but I doubt, unless they're as full of themselves as Andrew, that it's 24/7. My impression is that most of them go about their lives with little fuss and not a lot of security apparatus, not at all dissimilar to most Hollywood celebrities.

We don't hear stories about the Kent or Gloucester cousins having airs or being unable to hold down a job; same with Princess Margaret's descendants. And, as far as I can tell, Princess Anne's children seem to have their heads screwed on straight with regard to a decent work ethic & good financial management. Prince Edward's kids are still in school but they both look to be pretty sensible and prefer keeping out of the spotlight.

The real issue is with the Yorks - and, in all likelihood, down the line, the Sussexes. Both are entitled, arrogant, over-indulged men who married women who were just as narcissistic as they were & it's been a recipe for disaster, especially for Andrew because it's becoming quite clear that neither of his parents ever held him accountable for any misbehavior or held him to a high standard regarding his associates & financial dealings during the 66 years he's been on this earth.
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IMO, a major difference is that many of the examples you cite (children of Princess Anne and Prince Edward, etc) knew from day 1 that they would not be working royals and were raised accordingly -- so they all developed other skills and other interests. OTOH, Andrew and Harry were both raised to be working royals -- Harry may now developing other skills and other interests -- but Andrew never did.
 
 Was Andrew raised wirh the expectation that he would be a working royal? Unlike his brothers, who went to Cambridge, he went to Dartmouth) (not the American Dartmouth) and could have had a lifelong career in the Navy. I don't think he was cut out to be a true working royal, and I suspect that his parents recognized the same thing early on.
 
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