Nathan Chen Fan Thread #2

[AxelLover]

Point is, it's one thing to make it your goal but completely something else to make an announcement about it and to make a big deal out of it just to try to prevent other skaters from going for it too.

I don't think this was Yuzuru's intention at all. He just expressed his immense desire to be the first skater who lands a clean 4A in competition. It is more important to him than winning the Olympics three times in a row. And if other skaters for some reason really get scared off by Yuzuru's statements, that's their problem.

It doesn't matter who's first really. There were high hopes that either Brian would land the quad toe, and Joseph almost got it, but Kurt surprised everyone by officially landing it. I think we'll see a lot of 4A attempts before one becomes official.

And this is exactly why it is important who lands the first ratified 4A in competition. Jozef Sabovcik was so close with his 4T, but it is Kurt Browning who won't be forgotten and who gets the glory. There were lots and lots of skaters after Kurt landing the 4T as well, but he will always be remembered as the one who did it officially for the first time. I don't think many people know who was the second skater to land a ratified 4T in competition (I would like to know that though, does anybode here know it?)


As for the "right" to be the first who lands the 4A, that's complete BS. I believe that not even the most fanatic fanyus mean this seriously.

 

[sundayspirals]

I think quite a few of the top men are training the 4A (incl. Nathan as he had a few half decent attempts in Las Vegas last year) but I doubt anyone but Yuzu will try to put it into a program anytime soon.

 

[Lemonade20]

I think quite a few of the top men are training the 4A (incl. Nathan as he had a few half decent attempts in Las Vegas last year) but I doubt anyone but Yuzu will try to put it into a program anytime soon.

You never know, someone could decide hey, today's the day to go for it!

 

[sheetz]

It's hard to say how important landing the first 4A is because few seem to care that much about the other first quads aside from Kurt's 4T. How many people remember Brandon Mroz landed the first 4Lz? Most seem to think it was Boyang Jin.

 

[A.H.Black]

It's hard to say how important landing the first 4A is because few seem to care that much about the other first quads aside from Kurt's 4T. How many people remember Brandon Mroz landed the first 4Lz? Most seem to think it was Boyang Jin.

And how many people remember Vern Taylor landing the first Triple Axel. Winning is more important than "firsts" over the long term. Neither Nathan nor Yuzu are remembered for their firsts, but rather for their dominance and (dare I say it) body of work.

 

[puppylover]

Don't think Yuzuru would even consider such reasoning, since I doubt any skater would actually refrain from pursuing a 4A if that's their goal or something they feel they could achieve, just because another skater has already 'marked their territory'. Especially not if it's a highly decorated one such as Yuzuru, who has already had enough firsts and successes.

It seems pretty obvious however, that Yuzuru has used his quest for the 4A to draw the attention to himself whenever he got beaten by Nathan, as a way to compensate for losing to him, to soothe his ego and bolster his self esteem. Either defiantly or on a subconscious level, don't know. But it had me roll my eyes at his antics.

I do wonder though, the results of the upcoming Olympics aside, if in the future landing a 4A could become a goal for Nathan. One that would make him want to return to skating for a few more seasons (obviously after a break and return to school)? Because we gotta ask ourselves, what (competitive) goals would there be left for him, that he would feel inclined to continue beyond the Olympics.

 

[Tahuu]

If Nathan can do a 6-quad (with 5 types of quads) and an 3-axel program, such as mentioned up thread, it would be a top standard for men’s and women’s skating and its impact on the sport would be long lasting. Unlike when skaters started doing all-triple programs, all-quad (with or without 4A) programs are likely the limit of human capacity, at least for a long, long time.

4Lo
4Lz
4F+3T
4S
4T+1Eu+3F
4T+3T
3A

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Speaking of that, was anyone else a bit bothered by Yuzuru's announcement that he wanted to be the first to do a 4A and the fact that he made such a big deal out of it? I almost feel like there was tactic behind him doing that. Because of what Yuzuru did, even if Nathan were to land the 4A in practice, I doubt he would put it into competition simply because I think he'd feel too guilty. Also, yes, no thanks to Yuzuru, certain people already think it's his right, so, indeed, it'd start a world war if Nathan(or any other skater, really) puts it into competition and lands it first. But, I kind of suspect that just maybe all those reasons are why Yuzuru did what he did. Honestly, the 4A isn't anyone's right. Everyone should be allowed to go for it if they want(not that I think Nathan really even cares). Point is, it's one thing to make it your goal but completely something else to make an announcement about it and to make a big deal out of it just to try to prevent other skaters from going for it too. I don't want to think badly of any skater but I was a bit puzzled why Yuzuru made such a big fuss about it in front of the press. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I really hope I'm wrong about his intentions. Even if it wasn't intentional, what he did was rather thoughtless towards all the other skaters.

Anyway, I'm new around here, by the way. Someone recommended this place to me and I'm looking forward to mingling with other Nathan Chen fans. He's my favorite skater, ever!

Welcome!

 

[ShuPa]

It seems pretty obvious however, that Yuzuru has used his quest for the 4A to draw the attention to himself whenever he got beaten by Nathan, as a way to compensate for losing to him, to soothe his ego and bolster his self esteem. Either defiantly or on a subconscious level, don't know. But it had me roll my eyes at his antics.

Yuzuru's dream was to land the 4A since he was a kid and he already mentioned landing the 4A back in 2013 in interviews. After winning his second consecutive Olympic gold medal he talked about landing the 4A as his ultimate goal - he talked about it multiple times since 2018 after his competitions he attended, whether it was ACI, GP events, Nationals, 4CC or Worlds. His goal has nothing to do with what Nathan is doing.

 

[AxelLover]

How many people remember Brandon Mroz landed the first 4Lz?

And how many people remember Vern Taylor landing the first Triple Axel.

I would actually use these two examples to support my opinion that being the first to land a ratified jump of a specific type really is an important achievement in skaters' career. Look at it this way - would you even know these two skaters existed if they didn't land the jumps? I most likely would not (to be fair, I started to follow skating not sooner than 2015 or so).

I knew Vern Taylor was the first to land a ratified 3A at the 1978 Worlds, but I had no idea who actually won the competition. I just looked it up and found out it was Charlie Tickner, a skater who I haven't heard about before (yes, I admit I don't know much about skating world before late 80s). Vern Taylor ended up 12th (which was actually his career best result at Worlds) and yet I know his name.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these jump achievements are more important than winnig worlds. I'm just saying they are importantant as well and that they do matter and are a great thing tu put into your CV

 

[Tahuu]

Landing the first 4A definitely will be a landmark achievement in figure skating. Yuzuru and Yan Han probably are the best axel jumpers. He is the one who most likely could land a 4A.

However, losing is like death to him. One can see his euphoria at the press conference after the men’s short program at last world championships, where he was so carried away by his SP win and he couldn’t stop his constant smug and body shaking. The “l don’t care winning anymore” is just a smoke. He is being dominated by Nathan this Olympic cycle. Yuzuru is a practical guy. He knows his 4Lz and 4Lo may not overcome Nathan’s 4Lz and 4F, his 4S may or may be better than Nathan’s 4S, and his 4T is only marginally better than Nathan’s 4T. He needs a 4A to give him the base value lead.

 

[AxelLover]

Yuzuru and Yan Han probably are the best axel jumpers.

Yan Han's 3A has a lot of height and covers an amazing distance, but he just doesn't rotate quickly enough to land a 4A. He's only been doing one type of quad (4T) in his career and it wasn't very consistent.

 

[MsZem]

How many people remember Brandon Mroz landed the first 4Lz? Most seem to think it was Boyang Jin.

Who can forget that great moment in skating history, when Mroz's 4Lz was homologated by the ISU?

One of my life goals is to get "homologate" into something I write outside of FSU. I bet Nathan could do it.

 

[Wyliefan]

It seems pretty obvious however, that Yuzuru has used his quest for the 4A to draw the attention to himself whenever he got beaten by Nathan, as a way to compensate for losing to him, to soothe his ego and bolster his self esteem. Either defiantly or on a subconscious level, don't know. But it had me roll my eyes at his antics.

I very much doubt that. I don't think Yuzuru or anyone would put himself through all this just as a quest for attention.

 

[jenny12]

Some of the psychoanalysis of Hanyu here is quite hilarious.

 

[SaDa]

Some of the psychoanalysis of Hanyu here is quite hilarious.

He has a habit of doing things to create attention, and there are plenty of examples of that. I think it's not a far stretch at all to say that he probably enjoys that attention and, thus, might have brought up the 4A for that purpose. Seems rather plausible to me, not that I care. If he wants the attention, let him have it. I was more or less just thinking that his claim on the 4A might be creating awkwardness with other skaters who might have been considering it too. I'm pretty sure Yuzuru knows how popular and beloved he is, and how passionate his fans are about him and his goals, that this might create a not-so-friendly environment for other skaters. I just think he needs to be a little more considerate about his actions. Just my personal opinions though. I'm not asking or expecting others to agree with me

 

[Tahuu]

Some of the psychoanalysis of Hanyu here is quite hilarious.

Hanyu needs that psycho change from “losing is like death to me” to “l don’t care winning anymore” or the suffering would be unbearable.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Hanyu and Chen just need the ubers to calm down. They will take care of the rest.

 

[Sylvia]

Yes, it's the beginning of the Olympic season but I, for one, would really appreciate it if people posting in Nathan's fan thread could maintain respect for Hanyu -- like Nathan does in his public statements to the media -- and also refrain from bashing Fanyus in general. Thank you.

 

[puppylover]

Yuzuru's dream was to land the 4A since he was a kid and he already mentioned landing the 4A back in 2013 in interviews. After winning his second consecutive Olympic gold medal he talked about landing the 4A as his ultimate goal - he talked about it multiple times since 2018 after his competitions he attended, whether it was ACI, GP events, Nationals, 4CC or Worlds. His goal has nothing to do with what Nathan is doing.

An unneccessary 'historical rundown' of Yuzuru's motives for pursuing the 4A with such passion and conviction, that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
Attempting 4A during the free skate practice session at GPF 2019, after that big mistake in the SP that set him back many points behind Nathan, or those 4A attempts during WTT Gala practice (after he had lost to Nathan again), none of those were necessary or even sensible given the circumstances and the fact that he had not landed it yet at that time.

 

[SaDa]

Yes, it's the beginning of the Olympic season but I, for one, would really appreciate it if people posting in Nathan's fan thread could maintain respect for Hanyu -- like Nathan does in his public statements to the media -- and also refrain from bashing Fanyus in general. Thank you.

I hope you're not referring to me, because I don't see having the opinion that Yuzuru should be a little more careful about his actions and about stamping a claim on the 4A because his fans can be very passionate about him and his goals as a bashing of Yuzuru OR his fans.

And speaking of the Olympic season, do we not have any real news on Nathan's new programs yet other than the speculation that he might be doing Mozart? Like, do we even know who's doing his choreo for him or have speculation on that? I don't frequent social media much, so I'm just wondering if anyone might know anything more.

 

[overedge]

I hope you're not referring to me, because I don't see having the opinion that Yuzuru should be a little more careful about his actions and about stamping a claim on the 4A because his fans can be very passionate about him and his goals as a bashing of Yuzuru OR his fans.

That's a very interesting definition of "not bashing".

 

[SaDa]

That's a very interesting definition of "not bashing".

It's not, because there was nothing really severe about what I said.
I can certainly give you an example of real bashing, but I don't think you'd want to hear it.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Take the fan wars to Twitter. There are a lot of people here that are fans of both Nathen Chen and Yuzuru Hanyu. You really don't have to insult or put down one to respect the other.

 

[fairytales]

It would be best to move on from this subject. The goal of this thread is not to discuss Yuzuru Hanyu, his goals or his 4A.

 

[SaDa]

It would be best to move on from this subject. The goal is of this thread isn't to discuss Yuzuru Hanyu, his goals or his 4A.

It kind of pertained to the idea of Nathan possibly having the 4A in his back pocket and whether he would actually do it even if he has landed it in practice. That's why I brought Yuzuru and his claim on the 4A up. But, yes, I realize how sensitive mentioning his name is so I do agree it's best to move on.

 

[Deleted member 80234]

Don't think Yuzuru would even consider such reasoning, since I doubt any skater would actually refrain from pursuing a 4A if that's their goal or something they feel they could achieve, just because another skater has already 'marked their territory'. Especially not if it's a highly decorated one such as Yuzuru, who has already had enough firsts and successes.

It seems pretty obvious however, that Yuzuru has used his quest for the 4A to draw the attention to himself whenever he got beaten by Nathan, as a way to compensate for losing to him, to soothe his ego and bolster his self esteem. Either defiantly or on a subconscious level, don't know. But it had me roll my eyes at his antics.

I do wonder though, the results of the upcoming Olympics aside, if in the future landing a 4A could become a goal for Nathan. One that would make him want to return to skating for a few more seasons (obviously after a break and return to school)? Because we gotta ask ourselves, what (competitive) goals would there be left for him, that he would feel inclined to continue beyond the Olympics.

The 4A could be a goal for Nathan after the Olympics too, and if so I think he’d have much the same motivation as Yuzuru for going for it - another competitive goal. But as far as ego-boosting, etc., for Yuzuru, I don’t see it. He was asked point blank in an interview in the Japanese press in April this year whether he had ever landed the 4A in practice and he said no, never. And the interviewer was asking him over and over again why he would plan to attempt it in competition if he had never landed it even once in practice. He’ll get negative GOE, falls, loss of major point value on a jump that otherwise would have been one of his best (the 3A). And I predict in the Olympics Nathan will have gold, and Hanyu’s most fanatical fans will not be able to dispute it because he will have a fall or under rotation on the 4A attempt. If he were being arrogant he would have said he landed it in practice but he never did. He just makes comments that his body isn’t as strong anymore and that he spends hours training only the axle jump because that’s what motivates him. In recent interviews I didn’t see him saying anything about him wanting to be the first to land it. He just said he wants to land it.

 

[SaDa]

The 4A could be a goal for Nathan after the Olympics too, and if so I think he’d have much the same motivation as Yuzuru for going for it - another competitive goal.

As long as he's still interested in winning, I don't really see Nathan being interested in landing the 4A. He would be more interested in how the numbers add up. And if he starts to lose interest in winning then, well, he'd most likely just retire since he also has ambitions in other areas of life outside of figure skating. I could be wrong but I highly doubt he'd stick around just for a jump.

 

[sk9tingfan]

As long as he's still interested in winning, I don't really see Nathan being interested in landing the 4A. He would be more interested in how the numbers add up. And if he starts to lose interest in winning then, well, he'd most likely just retire since he also has ambitions in other areas of life outside of figure skating. I could be wrong but I highly doubt he'd stick around just for a jump.

In addition, he might lose his standing at Yale and would have to reapply. As is he has been away from school at least a full year.

 

[lurkz2]

In addition, he might lose his standing at Yale and would have to reapply. As is he has been away from school at least a full year.

I understood (from his interviews) that Yale gave out a COVID leave last school year, which he took, so he's still good for another full year.