Multiple Entries 2024/25 World Championships

Vagabond

Vagabond

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25,517
Amy L said:
Does JPN even have 3 pairs, let alone all with mins? AUS GEO and HUN don't even have second pairs at the moment. I wish unused spots could be given away!
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Yes. Nagaoka/Moriguchi (the current Senior National Champions) and Shimizu/Honda. Shimizu/Honda skated Juniors this season. He also skates Singles. Honda was born on September 15, 2002, so I think that means he's aging out of Junior Pairs unless there is a rule change. I'm not sure if Nagaoka/Moriguchi have the minimums, but Shimizu/Honda would have to earn them.
 
Karen-W

Karen-W

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Vagabond said:
Yes. Nagaoka/Moriguchi (the current Senior National Champions) and Shimizu/Honda. Shimizu/Honda skated Juniors this season. He also skates Singles. Honda was born on September 15, 2002, so I think that means he's aging out of Junior Pairs unless there is a rule change. I'm not sure if Nagaoka/Moriguchi have the minimums, but Shimizu/Honda would have to earn them.
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Neither team have the Worlds TES mins. Nagaoka/Moriguchi need the SP min - they're capable - they've easily achieved it domestically twice, but struggled at all three of their internationals (NHK, Bavarian Open & Challenge Cup).

Shimizu/Honda would need to improve a LOT in the off-season in order to get the TES mins. Theoretically, it's certainly possible but based on what I saw of them at Jr Worlds I'd say they're better off focusing on the junior circuit again next season (presuming the age max change happens).

Also - next year in Boston, there will be the addition of the Qualifying Rounds and Direct Entries.

Direct Entries = 19 - if all countries with multiple entries use all of their spots then only 5 teams from the Qualifying Round to the Championship Round Short Program (24 pairs teams total for the SP, 16 advance to the CR FS). It is possible, though, that only 15 DE spots will be used (JPN 2, HUN 1, GEO 1, AUS 1) which will give 9 teams the opportunity to advance from the QR. Any way you slice it, it's going to be FIERCE next year in the Qualifying Round with likely entries from NED, CHN, UKR, FIN, POL, GBR, PHI, AUT, SWE, CZE and FRA.
 
Jarrett

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
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3,340
Karen-W said:
Neither team have the Worlds TES mins. Nagaoka/Moriguchi need the SP min - they're capable - they've easily achieved it domestically twice, but struggled at all three of their internationals (NHK, Bavarian Open & Challenge Cup).

Shimizu/Honda would need to improve a LOT in the off-season in order to get the TES mins. Theoretically, it's certainly possible but based on what I saw of them at Jr Worlds I'd say they're better off focusing on the junior circuit again next season (presuming the age max change happens).

Also - next year in Boston, there will be the addition of the Qualifying Rounds and Direct Entries.

Direct Entries = 19 - if all countries with multiple entries use all of their spots then only 5 teams from the Qualifying Round to the Championship Round Short Program (24 pairs teams total for the SP, 16 advance to the CR FS). It is possible, though, that only 15 DE spots will be used (JPN 2, HUN 1, GEO 1, AUS 1) which will give 9 teams the opportunity to advance from the QR. Any way you slice it, it's going to be FIERCE next year in the Qualifying Round with likely entries from NED, CHN, UKR, FIN, POL, GBR, PHI, AUT, SWE, CZE and FRA.
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What are the rules for the 2025 Worlds? I didn't hear about the QR change!
 
miffy

miffy

Bad Brit
Staff member
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I think I get it but unless I’m completely missing it I can’t see what the QR actually is. Is it the FS like it used to be way back?
 
Skate Talker

Skate Talker

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8,144
skatingguy said:
Yes. The skaters in the qualifying round will do a free skate on Monday or Tuesday before the Championship rounds begin.
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I kind of like that for 2 reasons. Those skaters that then qualify for the SP will get to skate both programs even if they don't make the cut for the FS. More importantly it will no longer give some weaker teams/skaters the advantage of concentrating mainly on training their short programs to increase their chances of making it to the free, only to then completely bomb out in the FS. It's an advantage over teams that have legitimately higher aspirations and therefore must train both programs more seriously. I think this leads to more SP specialists, jmho.
My issue is with understanding how skaters qualify for the QR and if the extra segment is an advantage over the Direct Qualifiers in getting out the nerves, getting used to the ice etc., or if it is just more tiring and a disadvantage. Guess that will depend on the skaters but at the 2018 Olympics I think many skaters that competed in the Team event got some not-so-great performances out of their systems and went on to give their best performances of the year in the individual events.

(Obviously I'm still mulling all this over. 🤔)
 
Karen-W

Karen-W

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Skate Talker said:
I kind of like that for 2 reasons. Those skaters that then qualify for the SP will get to skate both programs even if they don't make the cut for the FS. More importantly it will no longer give some weaker teams/skaters the advantage of concentrating mainly on training their short programs to increase their chances of making it to the free, only to then completely bomb out in the FS. It's an advantage over teams that have legitimately higher aspirations and therefore must train both programs more seriously. I think this leads to more SP specialists, jmho.
My issue is with understanding how skaters qualify for the QR and if the extra segment is an advantage over the Direct Qualifiers in getting out the nerves, getting used to the ice etc., or if it is just more tiring and a disadvantage. Guess that will depend on the skaters but at the 2018 Olympics I think many skaters that competed in the Team event got some not-so-great performances out of their systems and went on to give their best performances of the year in the individual events.

(Obviously I'm still mulling all this over. 🤔)
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I don't think having to compete the FS/FD twice in one week is going to be considered an advantage by most.
 
T

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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Karen-W said:
I don't think having to compete the FS/FD twice in one week is going to be considered an advantage by most.
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That's been my biggest issue with the changing rules. Prior to 1999, there were skaters that were grandfathered into the short program, much like these new rules will do. Then from 1999 to 2006, everyone skated the qualifying round if there was one. In the 6.0 days, the additional segment made it more difficult for movement, a 1st in the QR and a 3rd in the SP meant the skater didn't 'control their own destiny' bla bla.

Kozuka had it work for him in 2011 when he had to compete three times, but I think it should remain all even for everyone.

I've floated the idea in other threads but I'd much rather see a Worlds qualifer event like the Olympic qualifier. There's typically a longish break in February and early March where skaters either compete in smaller B-events or they just sit it out until Worlds. Reintroducing the qualifying round where it's likely that many of the skaters will have zero chance of getting to the SP anyways now adds 2 more days to the long week, and people already complain about ticket prices and hotel prices. I'd imagine the stands will have the hardcores and the streams will have a very minimal amount of viewers.
 
Karen-W

Karen-W

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tony said:
That's been my biggest issue with the changing rules. Prior to 1999, there were skaters that were grandfathered into the short program, much like these new rules will do. Then from 1999 to 2006, everyone skated the qualifying round if there was one. In the 6.0 days, the additional segment made it more difficult for movement, a 1st in the QR and a 3rd in the SP meant the skater didn't 'control their own destiny' bla bla.

Kozuka had it work for him in 2011 when he had to compete three times, but I think it should remain all even for everyone.

I've floated the idea in other threads but I'd much rather see a Worlds qualifer event like the Olympic qualifier. There's typically a longish break in February and early March where skaters either compete in smaller B-events or they just sit it out until Worlds. Reintroducing the qualifying round where it's likely that many of the skaters will have zero chance of getting to the SP anyways now adds 2 more days to the long week, and people already complain about ticket prices and hotel prices. I'd imagine the stands will have the hardcores and the streams will have a very minimal amount of viewers.
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But then the small feds will complain about how their skaters/teams don't get the exposure/prestige of competing at Worlds. And others have pointed out that qualifying for/attending Worlds can affect funding for a lot of them. So I can see the point of having the QR because skaters can say "we made it to Worlds!" The biggest problem I see is that the numbers of skaters/teams actually qualifying for even the Worlds QR is not likely to be much different than the #s we have now.
 
skatingguy

skatingguy

decently
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18,627
tony said:
I've floated the idea in other threads but I'd much rather see a Worlds qualifer event like the Olympic qualifier. There's typically a longish break in February and early March where skaters either compete in smaller B-events or they just sit it out until Worlds. Reintroducing the qualifying round where it's likely that many of the skaters will have zero chance of getting to the SP anyways now adds 2 more days to the long week, and people already complain about ticket prices and hotel prices. I'd imagine the stands will have the hardcores and the streams will have a very minimal amount of viewers.
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I think they should use the continental Championships, and spots at each would be determined by finishes at the previous World Championships, but I also want them to do away with country quotas.
 
Karen-W

Karen-W

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Ice Dance Multiple Entries

3 - USA, CAN
2 - ITA, GBR, LTU, FRA, FIN, CZE

Direct Entries = 20 - 6 - 12 = 2 = GEO, KOR
 
Last edited:
T

tony

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Karen-W said:
Ice Dance Multiple Entries

3 - USA, CAN
2 - ITA, GBR, LTU, FRA, FIN, CZE

Direct Entries = 20 - 6 - 6 = 8 = GEO, KOR, AUS, JPN, ESP, IRL, GER, HUN
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If there are 20 direct, it should only be GEO and KOR.

Which I see you've edited to reflect.
 
Karen-W

Karen-W

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tony said:
If there are 20 direct, it should only be GEO and KOR.

Which I see you've edited to reflect.
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LOL - yup. I knew my math was off but my brain is a little fried after 3.5 days of skating and I couldn't figure out why it looked funny until @text_skate pointed it out over in the Dance Hall thread.
 
T

tony

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I really don't understand this QR setup, particularly the '30 best' countries in singles, 20 in dance, 16 in pairs. I get it, that's the maximum number of entries for the qualifying rounds. But you're never going to get a full field there if you're saying it's a 30 best list and not a next/remaining 30 best list.

I mean, looking at the women's results- that's 16 different countries. Hypothetically, all of them should be amongst the top 30 list. That leaves 14 countries with an option to send one skater to the QR, and a maximum of 38 women entered. I'd rather see 38 short programs like we have now than an additional 2 days of skating and 8 skaters being wiped out after the QR.

I just don't understand all the convoluted rules just to get what they already had. It's not opening the door for more countries to compete, it's actually potentially restricting them even more based on the results of the previous season and the potential overflow past the 24 direct entries that is outlined.
 
Karen-W

Karen-W

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tony said:
I really don't understand this QR setup, particularly the '30 best' countries in singles, 20 in dance, 16 in pairs. I get it, that's the maximum number of entries for the qualifying rounds. But you're never going to get a full field there if you're saying it's a 30 best list and not a next 30 best list.

I mean, looking at the women's results- that's 16 different countries. Hypothetically, all of them should be amongst the top 30 list. That leaves 14 countries with an option to send one skater to the QR, and a maximum of 38 women entered.

I just don't understand all the convoluted rules just to get what they already had. It's not opening the door for more countries to compete, it's actually potentially restricting them even more.
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I honestly think that might have been the INTENT of the rule as it is written - especially since they set the max # of entries for Worlds at 54 in Men/Women, 32 in Pairs and 40 in Ice Dance. I just don't think they sat down and actually listed out the TES scores by country in descending order and realized that the 30 Best included all the ISU Members who already have Direct Entries.

Maybe you should send a message to one of your ISU contacts and point this out so they can try to amend it at the ISU Congress in June before they have to implement it for Worlds the next two seasons.
 
T

tony

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Karen-W said:
I honestly think that might have been the INTENT of the rule as it is written - especially since they set the max # of entries for Worlds at 54 in Men/Women, 32 in Pairs and 40 in Ice Dance. I just don't think they sat down and actually listed out the TES scores by country in descending order and realized that the 30 Best included all the ISU Members who already have Direct Entries.

Maybe you should send a message to one of your ISU contacts and point this out so they can try to amend it at the ISU Congress in June before they have to implement it for Worlds the next two seasons.
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I'm going to interrogate about it. That wording is nutty and counterproductive to the goal of being oh-so inclusive.
 
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