Lawsuits against USA Gymnastics, Larry Nassar, etc. - news & updates

VGThuy

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I just remember many victims also blaming Terin for what happened to them as well since she was the athlete representative and didn't do her job in looking out for them. Of course, how could she when she was brought up in that same system, was taught what was "normal" by that system, and it turns out she was abused herself.
 

sonsofanarchy

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I just remember many victims also blaming Terin for what happened to them as well since she was the athlete representative and didn't do her job in looking out for them. Of course, how could she when she was brought up in that same system, was taught what was "normal" by that system, and it turns out she was abused herself.

I always felt that was unfair to Terin even before this. I don't know how much power or knowledge people expect her to have had. She was basically just brought on by Marta to be one of her guinea pigs. She probably had limited knowledge of some of the extreme things happening, and even if she did limited power. Marta would simply fire her on the spot, discredit her, and blacklist her in that scenario, while nothing would happen. And I don't even think Marta who had a way more inside track of things than Terin ever had honestly knew hardly anything (I know Marta is a devil, but I can't imagine her condoning the Nassar stuff and a lot of the other things happening, it doesn't even help her win even).
 

Erin

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I just remember many victims also blaming Terin for what happened to them as well since she was the athlete representative and didn't do her job in looking out for them. Of course, how could she when she was brought up in that same system, was taught what was "normal" by that system, and it turns out she was abused herself.

I don’t recall that, although Terin did get defensive about her role as the athlete rep. The problem with Terin was when she posted a meme that could be interpreted to promote abusive coaching and didn’t seem to realize the problem with posting that. And still doesn’t realize what the problem was with it.
 

Jimena

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It's not only Terin who's been affected by the filing deadline. IIRC, the article mentioned another unidentified athlete.
 

Coco

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Reading all of these accounts, I'm starting to wonder how the economics of coaching gymnasts Level 7 and up factor into the abuse.

One of the CGA gymnasts said they were expected to be at practice (4 hours after school!) every day whether they were in a cast or not. Made me wonder...coaches have payroll and other expenses that don't change when an athlete has a cast on...how much of making them workout too soon after injuries comes from a bad mindset vs economic need?
 

VGThuy

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Reading all of these accounts, I'm starting to wonder how the economics of coaching gymnasts Level 7 and up factor into the abuse.

One of the CGA gymnasts said they were expected to be at practice (4 hours after school!) every day whether they were in a cast or not. Made me wonder...coaches have payroll and other expenses that don't change when an athlete has a cast on...how much of making them workout too soon after injuries comes from a bad mindset vs economic need?

Good question!
 

Erin

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Reading all of these accounts, I'm starting to wonder how the economics of coaching gymnasts Level 7 and up factor into the abuse.

One of the CGA gymnasts said they were expected to be at practice (4 hours after school!) every day whether they were in a cast or not. Made me wonder...coaches have payroll and other expenses that don't change when an athlete has a cast on...how much of making them workout too soon after injuries comes from a bad mindset vs economic need?

My experience is that it's a bad mindset. I trained at and worked for a club that was a non-profit organization, and the head coaches were on salary, so their economics were not impacted by the number of people they trained. They still had that attitude anyway. I think most coaches truly believe that taking time off is a huge detriment to a gymnast and that they are better off training constantly, even if it means injuries don't heal.

Also, (in my experience) most competitive gymnasts have chronic, nagging injuries that never go away. So the coach wants to set a consistent expectation that you train while injured. And the base assumption is frequently that the gymnast is lying about the injury anyway, so it's kind of treated like a punishment to do conditioning so that they are incentivized to not "pretend" (in the coach's mind) to be injured anymore and be able to do more. It's so messed up.

I'm sure there are some coaches where the economics are a factor. But I think the culture is so bad that the problem exists even when economics aren't a factor.
 

VGThuy

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The whole coaches being automatically distrustful of students to the point where they think they're faking injuries is bananas, but then the American school system is set up to where teachers and authority figures are set with a system where students are never to be trusted, which differs from some other cultures. I wonder where they get that mentality from. Like they're thinking their gymnasts are just being lazy. IMO, if the coach thinks that and they want to make gymnasts push through it, then they're way too invested in that gymnast's career for their own personal glory. They should work on the source issue and help the gymnast figure out what they ultimately want, but they should not force a gymnast to do something if they don't want to do it. It's their life and career, not the coach's. I think this may also be part of the glamorization of military attitudes and adopting it for young children.
 

Aceon6

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Level 10s and elites should be able to train/compete with minor injuries as there’s no guarantee they won’t be a bit banged up on the day of the competition. They probably would even if they weren’t pressured.

It seems that many coaches aren’t willing to get a diagnosis before they decide. If 10 of their gymnasts had similar falls in the past and we’re ok, they assume the 11th is the same. Same for concussion protocol. I suspect half the elite gyms don‘t even have one.
 

MacMadame

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Level 10s and elites should be able to train/compete with minor injuries as there’s no guarantee they won’t be a bit banged up on the day of the competition. T
I think this depends very much on what the injury is. Some injures can be trained through and some cannot. If you have an overuse injury, often the only cure is rest. So stress fracture and bursitis and nerve damage really shouldn't be trained through. But you can train around a muscle tear once it's stabilized. I know because I've done it. :D
 

Aceon6

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I think this depends very much on what the injury is. Some injures can be trained through and some cannot. If you have an overuse injury, often the only cure is rest. So stress fracture and bursitis and nerve damage really shouldn't be trained through. But you can train around a muscle tear once it's stabilized. I know because I've done it. :D
Agree. That’s why it’s so important for an INDEPENDENT medical professional to do an assessment.
 

Coco

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My experience is that it's a bad mindset. I trained at and worked for a club that was a non-profit organization, and the head coaches were on salary, so their economics were not impacted by the number of people they trained.

Coaches will still make their salary, but what about the $$ coming in the door?

How do gymnasts pay? Do they buy X lessons at one time or pay by the month? Or do they pay before or after the session?

Because if someone is in a leg cast for 6 weeks, that could be a significant loss of income.

It doesn't seem like sound training to work the same muscle group for four hours every day without variety. But if the only way the gym keeps the $$ coming is to have an athlete do that, that is a huge incentive to make them do that.
 

MacMadame

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Agree. That’s why it’s so important for an INDEPENDENT medical professional to do an assessment.
And then be listened to!

Remember when Michelle Kwan was in a boot and withdrew from the GP series due to a stress fracture? It was not the best timing (I think it was an Olympic season) and I'm sure she wanted to skate but she didn't because it would make the situation worse.
 

FiveRinger

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Coaches will still make their salary, but what about the $$ coming in the door?

How do gymnasts pay? Do they buy X lessons at one time or pay by the month? Or do they pay before or after the session?

Because if someone is in a leg cast for 6 weeks, that could be a significant loss of income.

It doesn't seem like sound training to work the same muscle group for four hours every day without variety. But if the only way the gym keeps the $$ coming is to have an athlete do that, that is a huge incentive to make them do that.
This was my initial thought. It’s abominable that a gym forces athletes to come to training in back braces and leg casts when all they can literally do are arm curls. And they are charged for the privilege. WTF?
 

Weve3

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It's inferring a financial racket more than anything else. To require an injured gymnast "train" for the sake of appearances or to bolster team morale is nothing more than a flimsy excuse, especially when their doctor recommends otherwise. It's another sordid chapter in a book that is already bursting at the seams.

I think what we're finding out is that a lot of these coaches and their staff are quite selfish and appear to live in a bubble.
 

canbelto

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I wonder if the extremely short peaks of most elite gymnasts is why sports medicine is so poor in gymnastics. Say a huge NBA star gets a major injury. The teams know that in order to invest in the player they have to give the player the best rehab so they can get another 10 good years out of said player. There isn't "another good 10 years" for WAG. So basically the view is "compete injured or miss the entire quad."
 

Rob

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I went to a ballet academy for jr. high and high school, and there was no reduction in tuition if you were injured and could not dance. We were required to sit on the bench and watch (and you can learn quite a lot from that). But the tuition covered English, Math, Science, French, Music, Art, History etc. too and of course, you still went to school.

There are aches and pains and strains that do not amount to a debilitating injury - you rest as needed, warm up properly, maybe only do barre (not center) or maybe you don't jump or use pointe shoes for a few days, then stretch, ice or heat etc. I danced on achilles tendonitis for years not knowing I had a torn FHL tendon (no MRIs back in the olden days). Nearly everyone has some sort of tendonitis. But if there was a true injury, we were not allowed to take class, had to watch - so of course we would all try to hide the injury so we would not get benched or lose our parts in performances. Can't fake if it is a full break, serious tear, surgery though. Of course, you can perhaps take barre with an upper body injury, and there is no need to do arm curls or rope climbs in ballet when you have a lower body injury. However, as soon as you were able, you did start conditioning to the extent possible.
 

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