ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[TAHbKA]

According to these rules we'll get personally Tuktamysheva and Vetlugin and, basically, no one else.
I can live with that.

 

[MsZem]

Pogorilaya says it's boring without Russian skaters, and asks her followers if Worlds can even be considered a World 'Championship' without Russian skaters involved.

Skating isn't the same without some Pogosplats.

 

[Hedwig]

To me Pogorilaya represents not only a typical Russian athlete but a typical Russian citizen, who lacks a sense of awareness that they as a society allowed a murderous dictator stay in power long enough for him to start an aggressive war, which why they’re being banned/sanctioned. They either pretend the war has nothing to do with them or openly support it. As long as that’s their point of view, they don’t belong on the world stage, be it Olympics or any other event.

And that is the danger. For society as a whole. If for some reason the war stopped now and everything was "as before" the attitude of this is a very dangerous ground - I saw it in Germany following WW1 and we all know where it led. Don't want history repeating. Any of us.

According to these rules we'll get personally Tuktamysheva and Vetlugin and, basically, no one else.
I can live with that.

if that was guaranteed I would be very fine with that.

 

[reut]

Imagine believing Russian pairs "skating" like that of Mishina/Galliamov or Boikova/Kozlovskii was worth watching.

Last time I saw them skate was at the Games and unless it deteriorated significantly, I guess their skating is "worth watching".
Yet doesn't make championships without them boring, especially like the Worlds we had. As much as ruzzians would want it to be the opposite.

 

[reut]

According to these rules we'll get personally Tuktamysheva and Vetlugin and, basically, no one else.
I can live with that.

I doubt that will be the case. I'm more than sure that almost everyone unless someone openly - and multiple times - supported the war will be let back in. They will find an excuse. As for CSKA's skaters - not that there are many - they can always just put them formally in a different club.
So, probably only Kondratiuk and Plushenko will be out (and Plushenko for sure won't be banned for life, will he? Year-two at max? Or till the end of the war?)

 

[alice73]

People say what about USA and the war in Iraq? Well what about it? Did USA threaten the world with nuclear weapons? Did USA try to destroy Iraq as a country? Russia crossed so many lines. I’m in no way diminishing the suffering of Iraqi people. Obviously the Iraqi war should’ve never happened. Obviously we live in a very imperfect world where people die in military conflict for no reason. But to use that as a justification to allow Russia back is the height of cynicism.

 

[Ananas Astra]

Anna Pogorilaya-Nevskaia on Instagram: "Подведём итоги ЧМ 2023 года: 1. Японцы в мире теперь лучшие🇯🇵 2. Без наших скучно😌 Да мужской вид в мире пока впереди, но в остальном безумно обидно. И вообще, как думаете без наших, это считается чемпионат

725 likes, 24 comments - nevskaya_pogorilaya on March 28, 2023: "Подведём итоги ЧМ 2023 года: 1. Японцы в мире теперь лучшие🇯🇵 2. Без наших скучно😌 Да мужской вид в мире пока впереди, но в остальном безумно обидно. И вообще, как думаете без наших, это считается чемпионатом мира? 🧐".

www.instagram.com

Pogorilaya says it's boring without Russian skaters, and asks her followers if Worlds can even be considered a World 'Championship' without Russian skaters involved.

For as much as the Russian skaters don't care and will make their own Grand Prix series and show circuit to counter the ISU events, they sure do care about getting back into the 'Championships'-- and Pogorilaya being a has-been means nothing.. many of her current counterparts more-or-less state the same.

This is pretty rich, coming from Pogorilaya who is, actually, Ukrainian by blood.

 

[Karen-W]

I think the ISU needs to tread very carefully for the time being. Who knows what international sentiment will be like in a year, but I could imagine more than few fans at some GPFs vocally booing the likes of MishGal, TarMor, SinKats, Kondratiuk, etc who have been very public and open in their support of the war. At best, the ISU and GP host commission would be wise to make sure any Russian skaters are assigned to CoC and the Asian JGPs.

 

[On My Own]

Last time I saw them skate was at the Games and unless it deteriorated significantly, I guess their skating is "worth watching".

Really? good grief.

At least I got it for Gordeeva/Grinkov, Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze. And Panfilova/Rylov. The Russian Pairs at Beijing were a trainwreck and a snooze fest at the same time, which is their only accomplishment worth considering.

 

[Ananas Astra]

People say what about USA and the war in Iraq? Well what about it? Did USA threaten the world with nuclear weapons? Did USA try to destroy Iraq as a country? Russia crossed so many lines. I’m in no way diminishing the suffering of Iraqi people. Obviously the Iraqi war should’ve never happened. Obviously we live in a very imperfect world where people die in military conflict for no reason. But to use that as a justification to allow Russia back is the height of cynicism.

It's not just Iraq, is it?

I do understand the frustration of some people that the USA have never suffered the same consequences as Russia.
Don't get me wrong, I get why Russia has been banned.
But the USA never have been...why have they been getting a different treatment all those years?
As they say in Southern Germany, it leaves a "Geschmäckle".

 

[Ananas Astra]

I think the ISU needs to tread very carefully for the time being. Who knows what international sentiment will be like in a year, but I could imagine more than few fans at some GPFs vocally booing the likes of MishGal, TarMor, SinKats, Kondratiuk, etc who have been very public and open in their support of the war. At best, the ISU and GP host commission would be wise to make sure any Russian skaters are assigned to CoC and the Asian JGPs.

The booing wouldn't even be heard because the Vlad would make sure that there are enough Russian fans to cover those boos with their cheers.

 

[tony]

Really? good grief.

At least I got it for Gordeeva/Grinkov, Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze. And Panfilova/Rylov. The Russian Pairs at Beijing were a trainwreck and a snooze fest at the same time, which is their only accomplishment worth considering.

I guess we watched different events- trainwreck? Two of the three teams skated extremely well in the individual event, and the aftermath of all of this isn’t going to change that.

But your opinion is your opinion..

 

[Ananas Astra]

Really? good grief.

At least I got it for Gordeeva/Grinkov, Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze. And Panfilova/Rylov. The Russian Pairs at Beijing were a trainwreck and a snooze fest at the same time, which is their only accomplishment worth considering.

Oooof...I don't even know where to start.

 

[reut]

Oh, and now to the funny part, the Russian Olympic Committee's answer:

"Now the recommendations that have been in force for more than a year have been disavowed by the International Olympic Committee, but the parameters and criteria announced for the return of Russians to international competitions are absolutely unacceptable."

Официальное заявление ОКР — Олимпийский комитет России

Translation from here:

https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1640786610689024016

 

[Karen-W]

Oh, and now to the funny part, the Russian Olympic Committee's answer:

Официальное заявление ОКР — Олимпийский комитет России

Translation from here:

https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1640786610689024016

Well, good then, I guess we don't need to worry about any of their sports federations requesting to participate, now do we?

 

[reut]

Well, good then, I guess we don't need to worry about any of their sports federations requesting to participate, now do we?

Oh, I'm afraid IOC will beg them at some point.
Because this answer is not new, they already said that before, and yet IOC came out with the solution they came.

 

[Yuri]

Good Grief, there is no moral equivalency between the US/Iraq war (starting in 2003 post the 9/11 attacks) and the ongoing Russia/Ukraine war. The US led a "Coalition of the Willing" that included around 48 supporting countries at the final count:

Initial Countries: Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, the United Kingdom and Uzbekistan

Subsequent Countries: Costa Rica (later removed), the Dominican Republic, Honduras, Kuwait, the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Mongolia, Palau, Portugal, Rwanda, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Uganda, Panama, Angola, Tonga, and Ukraine

So are we saying that ALL of these nations should have been banned from the Olympics due to the Iraq War?

Russia's current allies in the war, in addition to Belarus, appear to be China, Iran, North Korea and Syria.

 

[Vagabond]

"Now the recommendations that have been in force for more than a year have been disavowed by the International Olympic Committee, but the parameters and criteria announced for the return of Russians to international competitions are absolutely unacceptable."

Then stay home.

Or better yet, bring your troops home.

 

[alice73]

It's not just Iraq, is it?

I do understand the frustration of some people that the USA have never suffered the same consequences as Russia.
Don't get me wrong, I get why Russia has been banned.
But the USA never have been...why have they been getting a different treatment all those years?
As they say in Southern Germany, it leaves a "Geschmäckle".

No it’s not just Iraq. I used Iraq simply as one example that people often mention and was also mentioned by Alexandra Xanthaki, the UN expert who advises IOC. I’m not here to defend US wars. I explained in my post why I believe the situation with Russia is different.

 

[airgelaal]

These conditions are very problematic. They would only work if the russian athletes were actually victims and did not support state policy. But this is not so. If, for example, an international federation allows athlete X to compete. I am not sure that evidence of his support for the war would not be found later. Moreover, nothing prevents him from declaring full support for russia after the competition. And what will the federation do then? start to disqualify? We have already seen that russia did not take all these neutral statuses seriously and violated the rules

 

[Karen-W]

These conditions are very problematic. They would only work if the russian athletes were actually victims and did not support state policy. But this is not so. If, for example, an international federation allows athlete X to compete. I am not sure that evidence of his support for the war would not be found later. Moreover, nothing prevents him from declaring full support for russia after the competition. And what will the federation do then? start to disqualify? We have already seen that russia did not take all these neutral statuses seriously and violated the rules

My guess is that the athlete would be disqualified from entry into future competitions and his/her results from the previous competition possibly nullified. But, then it would get ugly and go to CAS and we already know how Russia feels about CAS.

 

[airgelaal]

My guess is that the athlete would be disqualified from entry into future competitions and his/her results from the previous competition possibly nullified. But, then it would get ugly and go to CAS and we already know how Russia feels about CAS.

Exactly. Sports competitions will turn into chaos.

 

[Lilia A]

My guess is that the athlete would be disqualified from entry into future competitions and his/her results from the previous competition possibly nullified.

But what if they're at the end of their career. What if an athlete decides I'll retire if I win an Olympic medal, and then go on to win the medal. Then, if they really do plan to retire there's nothing stopping them from making a trip to the Kremlin and giving a massive pro-Putin pro-war speech if they want to. I realize this is an unlikely scenario with the skaters because it would mean they never ever get opportunities abroad, but other people may have plans to stay in Russia forever and just do a normal job or join the duma or something.

 

[airgelaal]

I do not remember if this was mentioned on the forum, but the lists of national teams are classified as top secret now in russia. What kind of evidence of contracts or funding can we talk about? I'm already reading comments from Russians that the athletes just came to the concert at Luzhniki a year ago. And if the federations don't believe it, then the federations should be sued. And they will start doing it.

 

[Holy Headband]

These conditions are very problematic. They would only work if the russian athletes were actually victims and did not support state policy. But this is not so. If, for example, an international federation allows athlete X to compete. I am not sure that evidence of his support for the war would not be found later. Moreover, nothing prevents him from declaring full support for russia after the competition. And what will the federation do then? start to disqualify? We have already seen that russia did not take all these neutral statuses seriously and violated the rules

My issue with the criteria is two-fold; on the one hand, it will give Russian establishment clowns and jingoistic trolls a way to assert Russian figure skating's superiority over the perfidious West, which they'll do no matter how their 'neutral' skaters fare but especially if they succeed in any way. (Additionally, containing Russian figure skating drama to their own little propaganda bubble that's untethered from reality and forcing Tarasova, Zhulin, etc. to stew in the knowledge watching Valieva torture herself is not as fun as international competitions, while also not having to address any of their nonsense controversies, has been a boon for the ISU and it's laid bare the implosion of Eteri's camp, but that's just me being petty. I'm guessing what most of us experienced as a blissful season of fair scoring, exciting competition and harmony among the nations—ice dance aside—was a period of acute financial distress for many international judges and officials.) On the other hand, unless I missed it, these guidelines don't say anything about the coaches and delegations that will be accompanying these pure innocent athletes who'll be allowed to compete? Because I can totally imagine Plushenko or whoever trotting out some new kid on the JGP and while I have nothing against kids too young to be held responsible for themselves, the pretence at political neutrality will be completely ruined when we see their coaches. (On the subject of kids, by the way, is the ISU going to make teens sign pacifist pledges to be able to compete internationally? Because as much as I like pacifist pledges in principle, that sounds dodgy and coercive.)

 

[airgelaal]

On the other hand, unless I missed it, these guidelines don't say anything about the coaches and delegations that will be accompanying these pure innocent athletes who'll be allowed to compete?

You missed it

Athletes who actively support the war cannot compete. Support personnel who actively support the war cannot be entered.

 

[Dobre]

Sounds like a complete failure of leadership on the part of the IOC. Passing the hard political decisions on to everyone else. I hope those organizations/businesses (TV channels)/host countries/audience members will turn around and hand the hard political consequences right back to the IOC.

 

[Holy Headband]

You missed it

Thank you for the correction! That's a relief... but it wouldn't make me feel much better if Plushenko sent one of his assistants abroad and still took credit for his skater's results in the Russian press, which I think is how these things are going to play out for the most part.

 

[airgelaal]

But if I haven't missed anything, then nothing is said about minors. Or should they be treated the same way as adults?

 

[Tavi]

Oh, and now to the funny part, the Russian Olympic Committee's answer:

Официальное заявление ОКР — Олимпийский комитет России

Translation from here:

https://twitter.com/goldenskate/status/1640786610689024016

Ha - I’m actually not surprised about this. The IOC says the athlete can’t “actively support” the war. Leaving aside the fact they haven’t defined what that means and we don’t know how it would be enforced (sworn statement?), it suggests that any athlete who participates in an international competition is, if not disloyal to Russia, then at least publicly not a strong supporter of the government that funds their training. Which I can’t imagine Mr Putin would be too pleased about.