ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[Primorskaya]

I'm seeing a surprising (to me) number of "people support me in the DMs"-type comments from Russian athletes and non-Russians who support a Russian return...the latest are Martin Fourcade, the French biathlete and IOC athlete representative, and cross-country skiier Alexander Bolshunov. Any know if there are similar feelings among skaters?

So far I haven't seen any but some Russian skaters themselves supporting their return. Fourcade lost a great opportunity to shut his trap. I saw a lot of comments (rightly) shaming him for his statement but no official reply from him.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm seeing a surprising (to me) number of "people support me in the DMs"-type comments

IME "people support me in the DMs" is used by people who are getting slammed for their post(s) to make it seem like they have more support than they do.

Not that I think they don't get any support in their DMs but I'm sure they are getting crap in their DMs as well.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

IME "people support me in the DMs" is used by people who are getting slammed for their post(s) to make it seem like they have more support than they do.

Not that I think they don't get any support in their DMs but I'm sure they are getting crap in their DMs as well.

Not to mention the internet is literally full of bots.

 

[airgelaal]

Valentina Tyukova

I think that Russia was simply betrayed. We won the war, freed so many people from bullying. We often visited competitions in Poland, visited the most mournful places and saw with our own eyes what happened there. And our skaters saw. And after everything that Russia has done for the world, we have such an attitude.

«РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо пÑедали». ÐнÑеÑвÑÑ Ð¿ÑоÑлавленного ÑÑенеÑа по ÑигÑÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼Ñ ÐºÐ°ÑаниÑ

ÐаÑлÑженнÑй ÑÑÐµÐ½ÐµÑ Ð Ð¾ÑÑии ÐаленÑина ТÑкова в инÑеÑвÑÑ Â«ÐаÑÑ Ð¢Ð» â о Ñоли денег в ÑигÑÑном каÑании, вине Ðапада пеÑед РоÑÑией и вÑÑÑÑплениÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ нейÑÑалÑнÑм Ñлагом.

matchtv.ru

With this attitude, Russian athletes will return. They saved the world, but they were betrayed.
I don't know what Olympic values Bach is talking about when people don't understand universal values.

 

[coppertop1]

This is all I have a say to Russia right now: . I really want to puke at their constant victim complex. Just shut up and take your lumps!

 

[MacMadame]

Valentina Tyukova

«РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо пÑедали». ÐнÑеÑвÑÑ Ð¿ÑоÑлавленного ÑÑенеÑа по ÑигÑÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼Ñ ÐºÐ°ÑаниÑ

ÐаÑлÑженнÑй ÑÑÐµÐ½ÐµÑ Ð Ð¾ÑÑии ÐаленÑина ТÑкова в инÑеÑвÑÑ Â«ÐаÑÑ Ð¢Ð» â о Ñоли денег в ÑигÑÑном каÑании, вине Ðапада пеÑед РоÑÑией и вÑÑÑÑплениÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ нейÑÑалÑнÑм Ñлагом.

matchtv.ru

We definitely need an eye-roll emoji on the like button.

What nonsense. Some parts of Russia are not very well-off and probably less well-off than other Eastern European countries. Plus "the war" that they "won" (apparently no one else in the world contributed to that ) was how many years ago? (77+ FTR) Perhaps the world has changed a bit since then, Valentina.

 

[Jammers]

Valentina Tyukova

«РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо пÑедали». ÐнÑеÑвÑÑ Ð¿ÑоÑлавленного ÑÑенеÑа по ÑигÑÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼Ñ ÐºÐ°ÑаниÑ

ÐаÑлÑженнÑй ÑÑÐµÐ½ÐµÑ Ð Ð¾ÑÑии ÐаленÑина ТÑкова в инÑеÑвÑÑ Â«ÐаÑÑ Ð¢Ð» â о Ñоли денег в ÑигÑÑном каÑании, вине Ðапада пеÑед РоÑÑией и вÑÑÑÑплениÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ нейÑÑалÑнÑм Ñлагом.

matchtv.ru

With this attitude, Russian athletes will return. They saved the world, but they were betrayed.
I don't know what Olympic values Bach is talking about when people don't understand universal values.

Saved the world? You mean the same Poland that the Soviet Union and the Nazi's attacked together in 1939?

​

 

[caseyedwards]

Saved the world? You mean the same Poland that the Soviet Union and the Nazi's attacked together in 1939?

​

That was nazi trickery! They only split Poland with Soviet Union to better invade the Soviet Union.

 

[Jammers]

That was nazi trickery! They only split Poland with Soviet Union to better invade the Soviet Union.

Dude you are insane as Hitler and Stalin combined.

 

[caseyedwards]

Dude you are insane as Hitler and Stalin combined.

Soviet Union wasn’t invaded by nazi Germany?

 

[karmena]

Your mind is invaded by Soviet Union ideology.

 

[Nadya]

Because that's what the russians want?

Because the Olympics are positively awash with countries who have violated the Olympic charter in one way or the other.

 

[Nadya]

Valentina Tyukova

«РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо пÑедали». ÐнÑеÑвÑÑ Ð¿ÑоÑлавленного ÑÑенеÑа по ÑигÑÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼Ñ ÐºÐ°ÑаниÑ

ÐаÑлÑженнÑй ÑÑÐµÐ½ÐµÑ Ð Ð¾ÑÑии ÐаленÑина ТÑкова в инÑеÑвÑÑ Â«ÐаÑÑ Ð¢Ð» â о Ñоли денег в ÑигÑÑном каÑании, вине Ðапада пеÑед РоÑÑией и вÑÑÑÑплениÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ нейÑÑалÑнÑм Ñлагом.

matchtv.ru

With this attitude, Russian athletes will return. They saved the world, but they were betrayed.
I don't know what Olympic values Bach is talking about when people don't understand universal values.

LOL what universal values?

 

[Karen-W]

Your mind is invaded by Soviet Union ideology.

Well, I wouldn't go that far since it is a fact that Nazi Germany DID invade the USSR and that Hitler did make a deal with Stalin to split Poland as a way of neutralizing the threat of a Soviet invasion on the eastern German front earlier in the war.

But, I guess the question is, at what point is the "debt" paid by Poland and other European nations to the USSR or any of the other Allied Nations for anything done to liberate them during WWII? I tend to think that 75 years on is more than enough time, but then again, the US has also been dining on our efforts during and immediately post-WWII too, so who knows?

 

[airgelaal]

Well, I wouldn't go that far since it is a fact that Nazi Germany DID invade the USSR and that Hitler did make a deal with Stalin to split Poland as a way of neutralizing the threat of a Soviet invasion on the eastern German front earlier in the war.

But, I guess the question is, at what point is the "debt" paid by Poland and other European nations to the USSR or any of the other Allied Nations for anything done to liberate them during WWII? I tend to think that 75 years on is more than enough time, but then again, the US has also been dining on our efforts during and immediately post-WWII too, so who knows?

Exactly. USSR, but not Russia. If we follow this logic, then Europe continues to pay this debt, helping Ukraine

 

[Karen-W]

Exactly. USSR, but not Russia. If we follow this logic, then Europe continues to pay this debt, helping Ukraine

Except that Russia is the recognized successor state to the USSR. Yes, the other SSRs proclaimed their independence and were recognized by the rest of the world, including the UN, as sovereign nations, but by your logic, shouldn't India also be paying a debt to Ukraine since they were part of the UK at the time of WWII?

I'm not saying that the logic of Russians saying "well, we saved you 77 years ago and you should be forever grateful and subservient to us for eternity" is right, but I can sort of understand the mentality. Like I said, US foreign policy has largely rested on "saving the world for democracy in WWII" for the same 77 years, and there has been an expectation, right or wrong, at times, of acquiescence from many of those countries (and others that we've since "stepped in to save"). It's self-serving and more than a little self-righteous, but I get why it exists in Russia, as much as I get why it exists here in the US.

 

[airgelaal]

Except that Russia is the recognized successor state to the USSR. Yes, the other SSRs proclaimed their independence and were recognized by the rest of the world, including the UN, as sovereign nations, but by your logic, shouldn't India also be paying a debt to Ukraine since they were part of the UK at the time of WWII?

I'm not saying that the logic of Russians saying "well, we saved you 77 years ago and you should be forever grateful and subservient to us for eternity" is right, but I can sort of understand the mentality. Like I said, US foreign policy has largely rested on "saving the world for democracy in WWII" for the same 77 years, and there has been an expectation, right or wrong, at times, of acquiescence from many of those countries (and others that we've since "stepped in to save"). It's self-serving and more than a little self-righteous, but I get why it exists in Russia, as much as I get why it exists here in the US.

This is not my logic, I just followed it. Ukraine was not just formally part of the USSR. Ukrainians took an active part in the liberation of Europe. And russia can be the legal successor only in legal matters. It has nothing to do with moral issues.
If we consider that the world still owes something to the USSR in moral terms, then this means that it owes all the former republics of the USSR, and not just russia. But I believe that the constant reminder of who owes what to whom is emotional blackmail.

 

[Primorskaya]

This is not my logic, I just followed it. Ukraine was not just formally part of the USSR. Ukrainians took an active part in the liberation of Europe. And russia can be the legal successor only in legal matters. It has nothing to do with moral issues.
If we consider that the world still owes something to the USSR in moral terms, then this means that it owes all the former republics of the USSR, and not just russia. But I believe that the constant reminder of who owes what to whom is emotional blackmail.

Yes, quite! Every constituent nation of the then USSR was hit by this war and fought the Nazis, and Ukraine being where it is, they were bang in the middle of the action. How can this not be blatantly obvious to everyone?

WW2 instrumentalisation in Russia is off the scale, and has been for a while back: in 2010-11 I worked in a kindergarten in St Petersburg. For the May commemorations, all the kids bar the 3 y.o. were shown short films about the war and liberation, some with fairly tough images, and were given talks by medal-wearing veterans. Behind the good sentiment and respect, all of it was laced with "WE saved the world" rhetoric. It made me laugh a bit at the time, although I was pretty outraged on the behalf of every European resistant and US soldier, as none even got a mention. By the way, there was no "WW2" in Russia, it's called the Great Patriotic War. Jus that is pretty revelatory to me. There's no world outside of us. Not to minimise the price they paid, only Germany took a harder hit, proportionally, but the way it's being used to warp young minds is pukeworthy. And it works, as evidenced by the support and mileage Putin gets out of it...

 

[Rainbow]

Well, I wouldn't go that far since it is a fact that Nazi Germany DID invade the USSR and that Hitler did make a deal with Stalin to split Poland as a way of neutralizing the threat of a Soviet invasion on the eastern German front earlier in the war.

But, I guess the question is, at what point is the "debt" paid by Poland and other European nations to the USSR or any of the other Allied Nations for anything done to liberate them during WWII? I tend to think that 75 years on is more than enough time, but then again, the US has also been dining on our efforts during and immediately post-WWII too, so who knows?

For what should Poland be indebted to the USSR? For the invasion and occupation by the Red Army? For massacres and deportations?

 

[PRlady]

For what should Poland be indebted to the USSR? For the invasion and occupation by the Red Army? For massacres and deportations?

Don’t forget Katyn massacre. Deserves a mention all its own.

 

[MsZem]

I think we can all acknowledge that WWII was not a fun time for anyone, and the USSR played an important - but by no means exclusive - role in defeating Nazi Germany.

 

[airgelaal]

And most importantly, that this has nothing to do with what russia is doing now.
What amazes me the most is that when people from the sports industry in russia talk about the "bad west", they forget about what is happening now. According to them, russian athletes were banned for no reason and out of envy. The West just woke up one day and decided: why don't we ban the russians? Figure skaters in russia compete without problems and complain that they are illegally banned when Ukrainian figure skaters cannot even train at home. We are not even talking about national championships. What equal rights can we talk about?
Tyukova will arrive at international competitions with her juniors and accuse Ukrainian athletes of being banned because of them. They saved Ukrainians, like Europe during the WWII, and they were punished for it. This is what Ukrainian athletes hear from russian colleagues in person or privately. Is it this kind of friendly atmosphere that Bach is talking about? And what will he do when the conflict starts?

 

[Rainbow]

To put the focus on sports again, there is still no proposition to how it is to be proven, that athletes from Russia don`t support the war. And what is considered support? They realistically would have to have criteria by now as the qualifications for spots in Paris are coming soon. Would a qualified spot be taken away again, if it turns out the athlete achieving the spot is a Putin supporter? Or supports a supporter of Putin? Imho, if you look at Rhythmic Gymnastics there is no way athletes should be allowed to participate as all of them train with and add to the influence and shine of a sanctioned person. What about members of the military-affiliated clubs? Is wearing the Z-symbol active support or viewed as basic PR the poor oppressed Russian athletes are forced to do?

 

[tmari]

It's Russia (as the self-proclaimed successor of the Soviet Union and the Russian Empire) that owes a massive debt to the countries of Eastern Europe. It murdered millions through forced deportations to Siberia in order to replace them with Russians (half of the deported would die on the cattle trains), organized starvation (millions killed in Holodomor), and World War II which Stalin started with Hitler. Then when Stalin was betrayed, he used colonized peoples as cannon fodder to defeat Germany. And yet Russia has the audacity to claim credit for the victory and to use it for propaganda purposes, to inflict more suffering on Ukrainians.

Before the current war, Western leaders routinely traveled to Russia to commemorate the WWII victory, giving Russia all the credit and feeding into Moscow's propaganda. The West allowed Moscow to cover up the fact that it was the colonized peoples, such as Ukrainians, who disproportionately contributed and suffered for the victory.

I've always wondered what would have happened if the world had done more to recognize the Kremlin's atrocities and forced it to pay reparations to the victims, instead of sweeping Moscow's colonial crimes under the rug and sending money TO Russia to help with their economy after the fall of the Soviet Union. That was like sending money to a rapist if he released a few of his victims, instead of making him serve time for his crimes.

The millions killed during the massive expansion of the Russian Empire, in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, Siberia and Central Asia, weren't enough for the Kremlin. Moscow murdered at least 20 million more during the Soviet Union and continues trying to savagely subjugate its former colonies to the present day. What if in the years following the Soviet Union's collapse, the world had stood firm against Moscow's gaslighting and not accepted its development of a victim complex for losing some of its colonies?

What if the world had recognized Moscow for what it was, one of the most deadly genocidal colonial empires in history. And that it owes a debt to its victims, not the other way around.

 

[MsZem]

NM

 

[morqet]

Moving on...

Lawmakers ask EU countries to pressure IOC for Russia's ban

BRUSSELS (AP) — European Union lawmakers have condemned the International Olympic Committee's decision to set out a path for some athletes from Russia and Belarus to try to qualify for the 2024 Paris Games.

apnews.com

The European Parliament adopted a resolution yesterday against the IOC suggestion that Russian & Belarusian athletes should be allowed to qualify for Paris under a neutral flag. 444 votes for the resolution, 26 votes against. A pretty unequivocal statement.

"EU legislators said allowing them to compete under a neutral flag “runs counter to those countries’ multifaceted isolation and will be used by both regimes for propaganda purposes.

In its resolution marking one year of the war, the EU Parliament urged the 27 EU countries and the international community to pressure the IOC to reverse its decision, “which is an embarrassment to the international world of sport.”"

 

[Nadya]

It's Russia (as the self-proclaimed successor of the Soviet Union and the Russian Empire) that owes a massive debt to the countries of Eastern Europe. It murdered millions through forced deportations to Siberia in order to replace them with Russians (half of the deported would die on the cattle trains), organized starvation (millions killed in Holodomor), and World War II which Stalin started with Hitler. Then when Stalin was betrayed, he used colonized peoples as cannon fodder to defeat Germany. And yet Russia has the audacity to claim credit for the victory and to use it for propaganda purposes, to inflict more suffering on Ukrainians.

Before the current war, Western leaders routinely traveled to Russia to commemorate the WWII victory, giving Russia all the credit and feeding into Moscow's propaganda. The West allowed Moscow to cover up the fact that it was the colonized peoples, such as Ukrainians, who disproportionately contributed and suffered for the victory.

I've always wondered what would have happened if the world had done more to recognize the Kremlin's atrocities and forced it to pay reparations to the victims, instead of sweeping Moscow's colonial crimes under the rug and sending money TO Russia to help with their economy after the fall of the Soviet Union. That was like sending money to a rapist if he released a few of his victims, instead of making him serve time for his crimes.

The millions killed during the massive expansion of the Russian Empire, in Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, Siberia and Central Asia, weren't enough for the Kremlin. Moscow murdered at least 20 million more during the Soviet Union and continues trying to savagely subjugate its former colonies to the present day. What if in the years following the Soviet Union's collapse, the world had stood firm against Moscow's gaslighting and not accepted its development of a victim complex for losing some of its colonies?

What if the world had recognized Moscow for what it was, one of the most deadly genocidal colonial empires in history. And that it owes a debt to its victims, not the other way around.

The type of reckoning you're describing has never happened for any empire on the planet.

Furthermore, the root of Moscow's victim complex is very far removed from losing its former colonies.

 

[Nadya]

Yes, quite! Every constituent nation of the then USSR was hit by this war and fought the Nazis, and Ukraine being where it is, they were bang in the middle of the action. How can this not be blatantly obvious to everyone?

WW2 instrumentalisation in Russia is off the scale, and has been for a while back: in 2010-11 I worked in a kindergarten in St Petersburg. For the May commemorations, all the kids bar the 3 y.o. were shown short films about the war and liberation, some with fairly tough images, and were given talks by medal-wearing veterans. Behind the good sentiment and respect, all of it was laced with "WE saved the world" rhetoric. It made me laugh a bit at the time, although I was pretty outraged on the behalf of every European resistant and US soldier, as none even got a mention. By the way, there was no "WW2" in Russia, it's called the Great Patriotic War. Jus that is pretty revelatory to me. There's no world outside of us. Not to minimise the price they paid, only Germany took a harder hit, proportionally, but the way it's being used to warp young minds is pukeworthy. And it works, as evidenced by the support and mileage Putin gets out of it...

You're right in that there is a lack of recognition in Russia, and formerly USSR, for the role the allied forces played in defeating Hitler. To be fair, it is matched by a comparable level of ignorance about the role of the USSR in defeating Hitler here in the US. Who can forget the tweet congratulating the US Army for liberating Auschwitz?

In general, I find the war death porn cult distasteful, and 3-year olds should never have to watch this. Most actual war veterans avoid talking the war and the most they say is "it was awful and never again."

 

[Nadya]

This is not my logic, I just followed it. Ukraine was not just formally part of the USSR. Ukrainians took an active part in the liberation of Europe. And russia can be the legal successor only in legal matters. It has nothing to do with moral issues.
If we consider that the world still owes something to the USSR in moral terms, then this means that it owes all the former republics of the USSR, and not just russia. But I believe that the constant reminder of who owes what to whom is emotional blackmail.

100%

 

[tmari]

In order to counter attempts to overturn the Russia ban, it's important to maintain evidence of Russian skaters' own statements and activities. If you find evidence for a skater or coach's support of the war, please add it to Wikipedia with a reliable source, such as a news article or their own social media account. Remember to save the evidence for posterity, preferably using Wayback Machine (the best and most trusted archiving website):
http://web.archive.org/save/
or, if that doesn't work, you can also use:

archive.today - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org