ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[airgelaal]

Not just sport. Also in ballet performances/tours. Ballet is basically dead…Ukrainian pick-up tours are NOT Bolshoi or Mariinsky.

Sport is the only area where there are real places and medals. That is why sport is such a priority and that is why victory at any cost is so important for russians.

 

[Frau Muller]

Sport is the only area where there are real places and medals. That is why sport is such a priority and that is why victory at any cost is so important for russians.

Uh…money is earned on ballet tours. Just not to forget.

 

[Andora]

Uh…money is earned on ballet tours. Just not to forget.

Is this really a hill you want to bleed out on? I don't think you're going to achieve what you're aiming for here.

(And yes, I agree ballet is very important... but really now...)

 

[Frau Muller]

Is this really a hill you want to bleed out on? I don't think you're going to achieve what you're aiming for here.

(And yes, I agree ballet is very important... but really now...)

Bleeding? I was making a point that the consequences of what’s going on in Russia is far greater than just sports. I personally have a lot at stake with ballet &, I suspect, a lot of figure skating fans do too. One silly point, good grief.

 

[misskarne]

Bleeding? I was making a point that the consequences of what’s going on in Russia is far greater than just sports. I personally have a lot at stake with ballet &, I suspect, a lot of figure skating fans do too. One silly point, good grief.

I think the Ukrainians have even more at stake here than anyone else, since what's at stake is their lives.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I didn't find what @Frau Muller has posted to be offensive or anything. I thought she was just saying if the Russians still have the means and we accept that they will pour so much money and resources into sport because they use it as propaganda to show off their greatness and validate that greatness back to the people for continued support for the regime, then they may also do the same for ballet because Russia has a ton of pride in ballet, and can make a lot of money from tours, and it's also another avenue for Russia to show off its greatness and superiority over the rest of the World (we invented ballet as we know it now and still have the World's recognized best ballet companies).

Am I off with my reading here?

 

[Andora]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I didn't find what @Frau Muller has posted to be offensive or anything. I thought she was just saying if the Russians still have the means and we accept that they will pour so much money and resources into sport because they use it as propaganda to show off their greatness and validate that greatness back to the people for continued support for the regime, then they may also do the same for ballet because Russia has a ton of pride in ballet, and can make a lot of money from tours, and it's also another avenue for Russia to show off its greatness and superiority over the rest of the World (we invented ballet as we know it now and still have the World's recognized best ballet companies).

Am I off with my reading here?

No - it's possible/probable. I read it as Frau being more caught up in defending something close to her heart (ballet -- Russian ballet at that) vs. bigger picture argument. One could argue airgelaal was too, I just have more patience for those living under dramatic duress is all.

 

[airgelaal]

Uh…money is earned on ballet tours. Just not to forget.

It's not about money. It's all about medals.
And, of course, the number of viewers. How many people can watch the ballet? And how many will watch the gymnastics competitions at the Olympic Games?
russia needs sports in the first place.

 

[Frau Muller]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I didn't find what @Frau Muller has posted to be offensive or anything. I thought she was just saying if the Russians still have the means and we accept that they will pour so much money and resources into sport because they use it as propaganda to show off their greatness and validate that greatness back to the people for continued support for the regime, then they may also do the same for ballet because Russia has a ton of pride in ballet, and can make a lot of money from tours, and it's also another avenue for Russia to show off its greatness and superiority over the rest of the World (we invented ballet as we know it now and still have the World's recognized best ballet companies).

Am I off with my reading here?

Right. Back to pre-1956…before Russian ballet toured to the West.

 

[airgelaal]

Dmytro Sharpar, a former Ukrainian figure skater from Kharkiv, died near Bakhmut.
At Youth Olympics-2016 he was part of the Ukrainian team along with Ivan Shmuratko and Maria Holubtsova / Kyrylo Byelobrov. Meanwhile, Russian skaters continue to pretend that nothing is happening.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617617077191454720

 

[coppertop1]

Dmytro Sharpar, a former Ukrainian figure skater from Kharkiv, died near Bakhmut.
At Youth Olympics-2016 he was part of the Ukrainian team along with Ivan Shmuratko and Maria Holubtsova / Kyrylo Byelobrov. Meanwhile, Russian skaters continue to pretend that nothing is happening.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617617077191454720

Yet some people think Russia should be allowed back. No.

 

[caseyedwards]

Yet some people think Russia should be allowed back. No.

Russian skaters didn’t do this! Punishment of them has meant NOTHING. Meanwhile china jails as many ughiurs as it can find! And all isu and fsu loves China

 

[greenapple]

Russian skaters didn’t do this! Punishment of them has meant NOTHING. Meanwhile china jails as many ughiurs as it can find! And all isu and fsu loves China

Give it up. Russian skaters and coaches have shown and voiced their support this war. A man has died fighting for his country that he would not have been doing if your favourite country had not invaded Ukraine - and all you are concerned about is that its skaters are banned? Get a serious grip, please.

 

[caseyedwards]

Give it up. Russian skaters and coaches have shown and voiced their support this war. A man has died fighting for his country that he would not have been doing if your favourite country had not invaded Ukraine - and all you are concerned about is that its skaters are banned? Get a serious grip, please.

They are really living in a dictatorship with no freedom.

 

[coppertop1]

Give it up. Russian skaters and coaches have shown and voiced their support this war. A man has died fighting for his country that he would not have been doing if your favourite country had not invaded Ukraine - and all you are concerned about is that its skaters are banned? Get a serious grip, please.

And whether or not they agree with the war, they are still part of the system. Their success would be used in Russian propaganda.

 

[mejmej]

Russian skaters didn’t do this! Punishment of them has meant NOTHING. Meanwhile china jails as many ughiurs as it can find! And all isu and fsu loves China

Yes... always a "then, what about", isn't it? Like it or not, Xinjiang/East Turkestan is globally recognized as a part of the Peoples Republic of China - making the human rights violations taking place there a part of Chinese internal affairs. Ukraine is a sovereign state, globally recognized as an independent nation, that has had their territorial integrity brutally violated by its neighbour, Russia. So save your China whataboutism (or if you want to bring up other what-about-examples, such as the US, Australia, India) until they have sent troops and tanks over the border to a neighbouring country.

 

[On My Own]

Like it or not, Xinjiang/East Turkestan is globally recognized as a part of the Peoples Republic of China - making the human rights violations taking place there a part of Chinese internal affairs.

"Performing forced abortions on your own people and sending them to labour camps isn't a crime" is a hilarious rebuttal.

 

[leilaofpaper]

Yes... always a "then, what about", isn't it? Like it or not, Xinjiang/East Turkestan is globally recognized as a part of the Peoples Republic of China - making the human rights violations taking place there a part of Chinese internal affairs.

"Performing forced abortions on your own people and sending them to labour camps isn't a crime" is a hilarious rebuttal.

I’m going to defend mejmej here, as that is clearly not what they were saying. They even said human rights violations, so clearly they aren’t supportive of these actions by the Chinese government.

The point is, in terms of calling for an international response, invading a sovereign nation is of much more alarm to other countries than what a country is doing to its own people.

I abhor what’s going on in Xinjiang, and I would love a response similar to how the sports community treated apartheid. But the situation is different to what’s happening in Ukraine, and mejmej is not wrong or immoral for saying so.

 

[On My Own]

I’m going to defend mejmej here。。。

They said "part of Chinese internal affairs" - which means it shouldn't be considered an international crime. Please.

 

[Gris]

Well...

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/statement-on-solidarity-with-ukraine-sanctions-against-russia-and-belarus-and-the-status-of-athletes

(Bold mine)

3. With regard to the individual athletes with Russian or Belarusian passports, the vast majority of the participants in each of the consultation calls expressed the following:

1. Strong commitment to the unifying mission of the Olympic Movement, requesting and encouraging it to live up to this unifying mission, particularly in these times of division, confrontation and war.
2. Respect the rights of all athletes to be treated without any discrimination, in accordance with the Olympic Charter. Governments must not decide which athletes can participate in which competition and which athletes cannot.
3. No athlete should be prevented from competing just because of their passport.
4. A pathway for athletes’ participation in competition under strict conditions should therefore be further explored.
5. Such strict conditions being:
   
   1. athletes would participate in competitions as “neutral athletes” and in no way represent their state or any other organisation in their country, as is already happening in professional leagues, particularly in Europe, the United States and Canada, and in some individual professional sports.
   2. only athletes who fully respect the Olympic Charter would participate. This means in particular: first, only those who have not acted against the peace mission of the IOC by actively supporting the war in Ukraine could compete. Second, only athletes who fully comply with the World Anti-Doping Code and all relevant anti-doping rules and regulations would be eligible. There must be individual checks carried out for all entered athletes.
6. In the event of any athlete failing to respect the eligibility criteria or failing to respect the strict participation conditions as set out above, the IF and/or the sports event organiser concerned should immediately remove them from the competition, suspend them from further competitions and report the incident to the IOC for its consideration for further measures and sanctions.
7. Welcomed and appreciated the offer from the Olympic Council of Asia to give these athletes access to Asian competitions.

 

[Karen-W]

Well...

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/statement-on-solidarity-with-ukraine-sanctions-against-russia-and-belarus-and-the-status-of-athletes

only athletes who fully respect the Olympic Charter would participate. This means in particular: first, only those who have not acted against the peace mission of the IOC by actively supporting the war in Ukraine could compete. Second, only athletes who fully comply with the World Anti-Doping Code and all relevant anti-doping rules and regulations would be eligible. There must be individual checks carried out for all entered athletes.

So, that pretty much rules out all the Russian skaters except... Tuktamysheva, Boikova/Kozlovskii, and Davis/Smolkin????

LOL - all those appearances at Putin rallies and social media posts that have been screenshot saved and shared all over are gonna come back to haunt a LOT of skaters.

 

[Gris]

So, that pretty much rules out all the Russian skaters except... Tuktamysheva, Boikova/Kozlovskii, and Davis/Smolkin????

"Not actively supporting the war" is a very vague criterion subject to different interpretations, I'm afraid.

 

[Karen-W]

"Not actively supporting the war" is a very vague criterion subject to different interpretations, I'm afraid.

Yeah, well, showing up at Putin rallies and making pro-Russia social media posts are gonna be a problem. I think the ISU has made it clear they don't plan on engaging with Russia next season if they can avoid it - otherwise why give away their GP hosting slot already?

 

[On My Own]

Yeah, well, showing up at Putin rallies and making pro-Russia social media posts are gonna be a problem. I think the ISU has made it clear they don't plan on engaging with Russia next season if they can avoid it - otherwise why give away their GP hosting slot already?

This is the IOC's statement. I don't think ISU will be having a say in who gets to participate. Should be directly judged by a committee arranged by the IOC, right?

 

[Karen-W]

This is the IOC's statement. I don't think ISU will be having a say in who gets to participate. Should be directly judged by a committee arranged by the IOC, right?

Did you read point #6 in the original post? It's up to the IF (International Federation) to make these determinations, I believe.

In the event of any athlete failing to respect the eligibility criteria or failing to respect the strict participation conditions as set out above, the IF and/or the sports event organiser concerned should immediately remove them from the competition, suspend them from further competitions and report the incident to the IOC for its consideration for further measures and sanctions.

 

[On My Own]

Did you read point #6 in the original post? It's up to the IF (International Federation) to make these determinations, I believe.

But then I'm not sure why you brought up the ISU?

 

[greenapple]

Even though no one is asking us, we can all help by reporting people to the IOC that certain federations may not.

 

[Karen-W]

But then I'm not sure why you brought up the ISU?

The ISU is the IF that governs skating...

 

[On My Own]

The ISU is the IF that governs skating...

Sorry, you're right. I'm sleepy. I'm not so sure what it will do then. IDT it will check everyone rigorously, and it's very open to interpretation. I'm sure it'd love to have some of the Pairs and Eteri girls back, and some ID teams for the sake of competition at EC.

 

[Karen-W]

Sorry, you're right. I'm sleepy. I'm not so sure what it will do then. IDT it will check everyone rigorously, and it's very open to interpretation. I'm sure it'd love to have some of the Pairs and Eteri girls back, and some ID teams for the sake of competition at EC.

Oh, I think that there will be plenty of fans who go ballistic on the ISU if they allow certain Russian skaters to compete.