ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[Nadya]

You mean like the way the United States destabilized Latin America? I guess it doesn’t matter since many Latin American countries are fairly new members.

And Zahra Lari + Thea Abodiwan - both from a country raining death on Yemen - aren't really a factor in international competitions. Still, I haven't heard any calls to strip UAE of its ISU membership. I guess dead Yemenis are less photogenic or something.

 

[jenny12]

I spent years as an antiwar activist. I wish the attention given to the horrors of this current war had been given to all those in the past, and those in the present still being ignored such as in Yemen, or in the Tigray region of Ethiopia or the continuing war in Syria, the brutality of which is beyond unthinkable.

I am thankful that the world cares about this war and is seeing what war means not turning a blind eye. Specific to the ban on athletes, I hope this is a new precedent. If citizens of a country know they will pay no matter who they are if their country prosecutes a war of aggression, it will make a difference in the future.

The worldwide response to Russia's brutal war of aggression in Ukraine is something NEW for the world but it could become a precedent, one that could help prevent future horrors.

Arguing against the ban on athletes, the sanctions on Russia, and other consequences that have often not been undertaken in the past is to argue that the world should stay the same brutal place it has long been. I don't understand that sentiment.

As always, you put this beautifully @BlueRidge. If we keep at this “well you didn’t do this…well, we let this country get away with that…,” we will get nowhere.

I think the Iraq War was based on a lie and one of the worst things I’ve seen in my lifetime. If other countries wanted to sanction the US because of it, then I would have supported it. However, the US did not go in by itself (now I don’t think this makes it any less heinous) and technically went through the necessary channels. And even then, I still think it was one of the worst periods of my lifetime. But does this now mean no other country should face consequences? How do we ever make progress if no one is ever held accountable?

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Actually, I don't feel it's unfair to Russia. Russia deserves everything coming its way.

Oh, really? That’s not what literally all of the rest of your posts sound like. In that case, it seems like we can stop talking about this because you agree that Russian athletes should currently be banned from competition and the ISU rule changes are appropriate.

Sounds like we no longer need to allow this poster to trap the thread in a circle of false equivalence because we all agree!

 

[Nadya]

Sounds like we no longer need to allow this poster to trap the thread in a circle of false equivalence because we all agree!

You would have made a great Pravda headline writer.

 

[Nadya]

Oh, really? That’s not what literally all of the rest of your posts sound like. In that case, it seems like we can stop talking about this because you agree that Russian athletes should currently be banned from competition and the ISU rule changes are appropriate.

Sounds like we no longer need to allow this poster to trap the thread in a circle of false equivalence because we all agree!

We only agree if you also think that these sanctions would never be levied on a different country, and certainly not on a powerful one, even if it’s guilty of the same sins. Until then, we only partially agree.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I don't know Nadya, Russia wasn't punished for its actions in Crimea either not so long ago so I'm not sure what makes you think the US won't be punished in the future too now that Russia is finally being held to account for this one-sided war.

 

[Japanfan]

This is why you can never have a reasonable conversation with most Americans if you're an immigrant. However civilized the discussion, at the end they always want you to get on your knees and thank your lucky stars. No variation allowed.

One of the early CNN commentators said as much from the border, until she got smacked.

I don't think that's true. Plenty of Americans are very critical of their government, some vehemently so.

So much of the discourse around it brings back their links to Hezbollah, their hostility to the gays, their treatment of women, their corruption, and much of it is true, but the subtext is - see, these people deserve it. They had it coming. They should stay oppressed.

I can't comment on coverage, but I can comment on perception, to a small degree. Pretty much everyone I know is very pro-Palestinian (excluding my Zionist sister and her friend). This includes a Jewish friend who goes so far as to say that Israel should never have been created.

It seems to be a left-right thing, leftists tending to take the Palestinian side, right-leaning folk the other.

 

[Nadya]

I don't know Nadya, Russia wasn't punished for its actions in Crimea either not so long ago so I'm not sure what makes you think the US won't be punished in the future too now that Russia is finally being held to account for this one-sided war.

Crimea was largely bloodless and not entirely unsupported from within. The world has seen enough borders redrawn within the last thirty years. One more didn’t feel like much, considering there was no visible pain involved.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

We only agree if you also think that these sanctions would never be levied on a different country, and certainly not on a powerful one, even if it’s guilty of the same sins. Until then, we only partially agree.

I’d ask how you come to imagine that Russia is not a powerful country but since I’m not interested in getting trapped in your attempt to dominate this conversation, I won’t.

I don’t care what happened in the past. What happened now is appropriate. When something else happens, we will discuss what is appropriate then. End of story.

 

[Pink Cats]

I’d ask how you come to imagine that Russia is not a powerful country but since I’m not interested in getting trapped in your attempt to dominate this conversation, I won’t.

I don’t care what happened in the past. What happened now is appropriate. When something else happens, we will discuss what is appropriate then. End of story.

Actually the past is very important in this discussion because one of reason that much of the global south has not taken sides is exactly what Nadya is bringing up.

Why non-Western countries tend to see Russia's war very, very differently

But the broader Global South’s dependence on or vulnerability to Russia doesn’t tell the whole story. Many of these states also see flagrant hypocrisy in framing the Ukraine war in terms of the survival of the rules-based order. From their vantage point, no other country or bloc has undermined international law, norms or the rules-based order more than the U.S. and the West.

 

[Nadya]

I’d ask how you come to imagine that Russia is not a powerful country but since I’m not interested in getting trapped in your attempt to dominate this conversation, I won’t.

I don’t care what happened in the past. What happened now is appropriate. When something else happens, we will discuss what is appropriate then. End of story.

Tell me you only notice stuff that happens to white people without telling me you only notice stuff that happens to white people.

 

[MacMadame]

We desperately need a emojin on the Like button.

 

[MsZem]

The world has a problem with feeling sympathy for the imperfect. Look at the coverage of the Palestinians. So much of the discourse around it brings back their links to Hezbollah, their hostility to the gays, their treatment of women, their corruption, and much of it is true, but the subtext is - see, these people deserve it. They had it coming. They should stay oppressed. I've never encountered any commentary that said - look, imperfect people, too, deserve to be free of oppression. Freedom and human rights isn't some graduation prize awarded by the big man only when you meet certain benchmarks. Idiots and assholes, too, have rights.

But Ukrainians haven't really done anything wrong, and they are much more sympathetic than, say, Palestinians, or little brown Yemeni children. It's easy.

No, it doesn't. Hezbollah is another matter entirely from the Palestinians and their issues, and as a Shiite organization it is linked to Iran.

There is a ton of coverage about the I/P conflict that is very sympathetic towards the Palestinian side. This is entirely irrelevant to this thread, of course, as the situations in Ukraine and the Palestinian Authority are not comparable.

But then, you're not arguing in good faith here, are you?

 

[ChelleC]

We desperately need a emojin on the Like button.

It's times like this when I miss negative rep.

 

[Hedwig]

But then, you're not arguing in good faith here, are you?

This is the problem.

If there is someone really wanting the world to step in into other conflicts that are not murky but where there is a) a clear aggressor and b) a country asking the world for help then these people would cheer that this is being done now.

And then ask about that it should be done again in other conflicts if (and only if) the situation is that clear - instead of opening other points of discussions that have no relevance to the current situation.

 

[PRlady]

One of the early CNN commentators said as much from the border, until she got smacked.

I mean compare this to the (wholly preventable) starving of Yemeni children who get close to zero coverage because too far, too brown, too unlike us, who knows why these brown people insist on killing each other, let them sort it out. Even though the starving and the killing is fueled by American technology and intelligence.

Ukrainians also have the advantage of being close to perfect victims. The world has a problem with feeling sympathy for the imperfect. Look at the coverage of the Palestinians. So much of the discourse around it brings back their links to Hezbollah, their hostility to the gays, their treatment of women, their corruption, and much of it is true, but the subtext is - see, these people deserve it. They had it coming. They should stay oppressed. I've never encountered any commentary that said - look, imperfect people, too, deserve to be free of oppression. Freedom and human rights isn't some graduation prize awarded by the big man only when you meet certain benchmarks. Idiots and assholes, too, have rights.

But Ukrainians haven't really done anything wrong, and they are much more sympathetic than, say, Palestinians, or little brown Yemeni children. It's easy.

Yemen is a mess with large powers like Saudi Arabia and Iran fighting a proxy war. Neither the government nor the Houthis are blameless.

As Ms Zem said, there’s enormous attention to the Palestinian narrative, there were Democratic presidential candidates talking about it. It’s also not analogous to Ukraine in many ways but it surely deserves and gets attention, it’s why the Israeli government spends billions on PR that doesn’t work.

Russia’s conduct is so egregious as to be outside the norm of neighborly border disputes or tribal rivalries. Yes they benefit from being white and European, but that’s not a reason not to come down hard on Russia in every possible way.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Tell me you only notice stuff that happens to white people without telling me you only notice stuff that happens to white people.

Tell me that you are desperately grasping at straws to defend the only country you actually give a sh!t about in this conversation without telling me you are desperately grasping at straws to defend the only country you actually give a sh!t about in this conversation.

 

[BlueRidge]

Is there any news on the subject of this thread?

Most of the posts here seem to be appropriate to threads in PI.

 

[soogar]

Tell me you only notice stuff that happens to white people without telling me you only notice stuff that happens to white people.

Link removed because causing issues with forum loading

Poland didn't want to let black refugees from Ukraine into its country either.

 

[PRlady]

Poland didn't want to let black refugees from Ukraine into its country either.

Because the requirement was for Ukrainian citizenship. Almost all the Black refugees were students from Africa with countries to go back to.

 

[Nadya]

Because the requirement was for Ukrainian citizenship. Almost all the Black refugees were students from Africa with countries to go back to.

That's definitely a good reason to push them back into the warzone.

 

[PRlady]

That's definitely a good reason to push them back into the warzone.

No, it’s not. But other non-Ukrainians weren’t given passage either.

 

[Nadya]

Yemen is a mess with large powers like Saudi Arabia and Iran fighting a proxy war. Neither the government nor the Houthis are blameless.

I love you but you've internalized the establishment's talking points on Yemen.

Saudi Arabia is fighting this war directly and not through a proxy. So is UAE, who is an ISU member.

Houthis are native to Yemen. Not everyone who's Shia is an Iranian proxy. The US policy has always reflexively favored the Sunnis. Witness American support in squashing a popular uprising in Bahrain that asked the monarchy for more democracy, that favorite American toy, but was brutally suppressed with American support and ammunition because it's easier to deal with a Sunni monarchy than with these dirty unpredictable Shia ruling their own country because god knows what they would do. Much better to keep them under the boot we know and fund. Let's produce more talking points about how some people just ain't ready for democracy.

Only one side in this "mess" has thousands of starving children.

Only one side in this mess receives intelligence and logistics support from the U.S.

So it's not quite as messy as people say but the coverage reflects the phobia of Shia Muslims and general indifference to the brown suffering when not politically expedient to care.

 

[soogar]

Because the requirement was for Ukrainian citizenship. Almost all the Black refugees were students from Africa with countries to go back to.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2022-03-08/the-russia-ukraine-conflict-highlights-polands-complicated-history-with-refugees

Two Refugees, Both on Poland’s Border. But Worlds Apart.

A young man fleeing war in Sudan and a young woman evacuating Ukraine crossed into Poland at the same time. They had very different experiences.

www.nytimes.com

Poland only helps people who look like themselves.

 

[MacMadame]

No, it’s not. But other non-Ukrainians weren’t given passage either.

That was a logistics f-up. There should have been people there to get them on the road to their home countries.

 

[Vagabond]

I hope that no one will be terribly upset if I post something about figure skating here.

List of Russians on Ice Partner Search

I guess these are the lucky ones. They posted their profiles while it was still possible.

Thoughts?

 

[Karen-W]

I hope that no one will be terribly upset if I post something about figure skating here.

List of Russians on Ice Partner Search

I guess these are the lucky ones. They posted their profiles while it was still possible.

Thoughts?

Well, Vitryanyuk skated last season with Sofia Val for Spain on the JGP, so I don't have much of a problem with him finding a new partner from another country again.

 

[Dobre]

I hope that no one will be terribly upset if I post something about figure skating here.

List of Russians on Ice Partner Search

I guess these are the lucky ones. They posted their profiles while it was still possible.

Thoughts?

Vakhnov is no longer listed. That's interesting. He was the most "established" Russian guy on the dance list. I wonder if he found a partner, or if the opportunity to form an international partnership is/was no longer viable. (Or both). It's not at all surprising if he has found a partner and is off the list for that reason already.

Lizunova, his most recent partner, is still listed. She's not as established as him, though she did compete in a JGP.

 

[airgelaal]

Mariupil had its own skating rink. President Zelenskyy personally opened it in October 2020

https://www.instagram.com/p/CG9L-wnH4yC/

There, in December 2021, an open tournament of the city in figure skating was held for the first time. You can see how happy the children were. Everyone looked positively into the future.

Свято фігурного катання

Відкрита першість Маріуполя з фігурного катання на ковзанах зібрала на місцевій льодовій арені понад 100 хлопців та дівчат. 2021 12 29#Маріуполь #MariupolIce...

www.youtube.com

Russia destroyed this skating rink. And, unfortunately, probably not all this children are alive and well.

Every time someone feels sorry for Russian skaters, let them remember these children.
Are Russian skaters really scared to talk? Are they not afraid to look at the ruined lives and dreams of these children? Silence is worth it, right? Or do they fully support the war? Then I have nothing to say

 

[LoisAGOEs]

Vakhnov is no longer listed. That's interesting. He was the most "established" Russian guy on the dance list. I wonder if he found a partner, or if the opportunity to form an international partnership is/was no longer viable. (Or both). It's not at all surprising if he has found a partner and is off the list for that reason already.

Lizunova, his most recent partner, is still listed. She's not as established as him, though she did compete in a JGP.

He’s been spotted around US ice dancer Isabella Flores, but nothing official yet. (Picture 7)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CcFxiGOrek9/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=