ISU has cancelled 2021 Europeans, ISU Grand Prix Final, World Junior Synchro; Stockholm Worlds still on for now

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Since Worlds might still happen, cancelling Euros doesn't mean that skaters won't train - they'll still go to their rinks, and they have to assume that Worlds is a go.

I wish that the ISU had decided to hold Euros virtually, so that the skaters (who are training toward Worlds anyway) could compete. That, or that the ISU would just go ahead and cancel Worlds now, and put alternative Olys qualifications plans in place and announce them now/early, so skaters could prepare. Or tell us Worlds will be virtual. Or that it will be held, but only nations with under an X percent infection rate can compete. Or something.

It seems like it's wishful thinking, re: Worlds; and that the sport and its participants would be better off if they just made an executive decision now, so people can plan and train appropriately.

I'm disappointed for the athletes.

Rescheduling Four Continents 2021 a little over three months before the event must have been frustrating on so many levels. From hotels and airlines losing potential income, tv rights needing to be renegotiated, the organisers tireless work being put on hold, not to mention athletes who may or may not continue after this Olympic cycle.

The Big V isn't going anywhere soon.

I think for everyone's sake, a definitive decision sooner rather than later would at least allow everyone to decompress and regroup.

Being left hanging isn't fun for anyone.

 

[olympic]

Per my earlier post, I think about what standard of 'safe' as it relates to YKW will be used. Many people will be vaccinated by Spring but to what level of vaccination or immunity would permit TPTB to allow Worlds to go forward? Ex - What if there isn't herd immunity BUT the world is safer than it was during the half-aborted GP series and insta-tests are available ? Would skaters perform in empty arenas with skaters, coaching teams and judges socially distanced? Perhaps attendance would be conditioned on a negative test and all attendees would be tested prior to entering the arena

 

[Colonel Green]

Per my earlier post, I think about what standard of 'safe' as it relates to YKW will be used. Many people will be vaccinated by Spring but to what level of vaccination or immunity would permit TPTB to allow Worlds to go forward? Ex - What if there isn't herd immunity BUT the world is safer than it was during the half-aborted GP series and insta-tests are available ? Would skaters perform in empty arenas with skaters, coaching teams and judges socially distanced? Perhaps attendance would be conditioned on a negative test and all attendees would be tested prior to entering the arena

Just based on the current vaccine timetables as known, there’s no way sufficient distribution will be achieved by Spring to meaningfully alter the calculus in most places.

 

[marbri]

I don't expect Worlds to go ahead.
I am looking forward to next season though as I think there are some unexpected silver linings to this non-season in that skaters bodies have probably had more chance to heal (those in need of it whether by injury or by covid infections), more time to work on improving and upping their elements and I expect them to be highly motivated and eager to hit the competition ice next season. I am in the mindset of returning to normal late 2021 so that anything sooner is a pleasant reward.

 

[marbri]

Just based on the current vaccine timetables as known, there’s no way sufficient distribution will be achieved by Spring to meaningfully alter the calculus in most places.

Agree. Spring starts in the Northern Hemisphere March 20, 2021. I suspect the majority of people competing/working/attending an ISU figure skating championship are not on any priority lists.

 

[Seerek]

With the outdoor Winter World Cups in other sports currently being held as scheduled, is there any suitable outdoor facility to host events, or would that be too difficult to operate to create a 'Controlled' environment?

 

[MsZem]

Agree. Spring starts in the Northern Hemisphere March 20, 2021. I suspect the majority of people competing/working/attending an ISU figure skating championship are not on any priority lists.

We don't know how long vaccine distribution will take. We don't know what will become available in the next few months. We also don't know how even partial vaccinations will affect infection rates. In short, it's too soon to make a call one way or another, which is why the ISU hasn't committed itself to any course of action yet.

 

[skategal]

Just based on the current vaccine timetables as known, there’s no way sufficient distribution will be achieved by Spring to meaningfully alter the calculus in most places.

Yes

Canada is only saying 3 million people by March and almost all will be from a high risk group.

That’s less than 10% of the population here.

 

[marbri]

We don't know how long vaccine distribution will take. We don't know what will become available in the next few months. We also don't know how even partial vaccinations will affect infection rates. In short, it's too soon to make a call one way or another, which is why the ISU hasn't committed itself to any course of action yet.

I was agreeing with Colonel Green's post. I am paying close attention to current timetables in a few countries I have personal interest in and I stand by my post.

 

[MsZem]

I was agreeing with Colonel Green's post. I am paying close attention to current timetables in a few countries I have personal interest in and I stand by my post.

I think there are still too many unknowns, so I'd rather stay optimistic. I feel like life these days in gloomy enough without assuming an equally gloomy future. Hopefully we will be in a better situation in a few months' time, and it will be feasible to hold international events with precautions in place.

 

[marbri]

I consider myself a realistic optimist.

 

[missing]

Since (shiny optimist though I am) I find it impossible to believe Worlds can safely be held anywhere on the planet in late March, I'm more concerned with when the ISU will announce its cancellation.

They cancelled Europeans about 6 weeks before it was scheduled. Worlds is bigger and involves far more planning on the part of its skaters/coaches, etc. So an earlier cancellation is preferable.

I think sometime in the first 2 weeks of January would be reasonable. 6 weeks before the scheduled event (early February) seems inconsiderate to me.

If the ISU can reschedule and has a realistic plan to do so by early January, that would be wonderful. If the possibility exists but hasn't been completely accomplished, then they can announce that at the same time as they cancel March Worlds.

I refuse to believe they'll be playing Chicken, as they did for Worlds 2020, when the exact situation was not yet understood.

 

[manhn]

Yes

Canada is only saying 3 million people by March and almost all will be from a high risk group.

That’s less than 10% of the population here.

But people younger than 16 aren’t going to get vaccinated, right? So, 3 million may be 20% if eligible Canadians? Basically, it’s just the registered voters. I am thinking in those terms because of the recent US election.

 

[tony]

Since (shiny optimist though I am) I find it impossible to believe Worlds can safely be held anywhere on the planet in late March, I'm more concerned with when the ISU will announce its cancellation.

They cancelled Europeans about 6 weeks before it was scheduled. Worlds is bigger and involves far more planning on the part of its skaters/coaches, etc. So an earlier cancellation is preferable.

I think sometime in the first 2 weeks of January would be reasonable. 6 weeks before the scheduled event (early February) seems inconsiderate to me.

If the ISU can reschedule and has a realistic plan to do so by early January, that would be wonderful. If the possibility exists but hasn't been completely accomplished, then they can announce that at the same time as they cancel March Worlds.

I refuse to believe they'll be playing Chicken, as they did for Worlds 2020, when the exact situation was not yet understood.

I don't know why people call it 'playing Chicken' when the US/Canada/most of the world went from very few cases to an explosion in the week just prior to Worlds. I don't recall people whining about World Juniors taking place when it was just a few weeks before that. I can only speak for myself but I went from a very fine work week to my city being completely shut down in the span of about 7 days.

Does it really matter when they make a final decision regarding Worlds though? Why does anyone need 2.5 months notice that it's canceled? Maybe they will postpone it at some point to a later first-half month. The people who the decision ultimately affects, the skaters, probably want it to happen in some capacity rather than having it canceled super early and expecting everyone to have nothing to do/no motivation to train for until next season.

 

[Dobre]

But people younger than 16 aren’t going to get vaccinated, right?

Not until testing has been completed on people younger than 16. Last I read, this may begin in January. The article I read also hypothesized that kids may not have access to a vaccine until some point after September 1st. I do not know if Canada is doing things differently.

 

[MsZem]

I don't know why people call it 'playing Chicken' when the US/Canada/most of the world went from very few cases to an explosion in the week just prior to Worlds. I don't recall people whining about World Juniors taking place when it was just a few weeks before that. I can only speak for myself but I went from a very fine work week to my city being completely shut down in the span of about 7 days.

Around March 11-12 Tom Hanks announced he had tested positive and the NBA also shut down, and those two things seemed to drive what was happening home to many people. I'm pretty sure that was also when the university told us we'd moving to Zoom at the beginning of the next week.

Does it really matter when they make a final decision regarding Worlds though? Why does anyone need 2.5 months notice that it's canceled? Maybe they will postpone it at some point to a later first-half month. The people who the decision ultimately affects, the skaters, probably want it to happen in some capacity rather than having it canceled super early and expecting everyone to have nothing to do/no motivation to train for until next season.

And as 2011 showed us, if it's just postponed the skaters will manage without that kind of notice, too.

 

[Vagabond]

Does it really matter when they make a final decision regarding Worlds though? Why does anyone need 2.5 months notice that it's canceled?

So that they can save themselves ten weeks of training expenses.

 

[skategal]

But people younger than 16 aren’t going to get vaccinated, right? So, 3 million may be 20% if eligible Canadians? Basically, it’s just the registered voters. I am thinking in those terms because of the recent US election.

Yes you are right.

I keep forgetting about the young’uns.

 

[tony]

So that they can save themselves ten weeks of training expenses.

So you think that the skaters who had their rinks open way before the ISU decided on whether there would be any competitions at all this year didn't have training expenses? They all wanted to get back to the rink, even with the uncertainty.

I highly doubt any skater is going to take a 5-6 month vacation from skating/any kind of lessons because Worlds are cancelled 2 months earlier than needed.

 

[taz'smum]

Does it really matter when they make a final decision regarding Worlds though? Why does anyone need 2.5 months notice that it's canceled?

Skaters training in other countries are badly missing their families, but dare not go home as they risk not being able to get back again in time for Worlds. I know for one, Tiff would come rushing home as soon as worlds is cancelled as she has not seen me since January and that was only a short visit and she is really missing me. So yes, knowing sooner rather than later does make a difference for the skaters.

 

[tony]

Skaters training in other countries are badly missing their families, but dare not go home as they risk not being able to get back again in time for Worlds. I know for one, Tiff would come rushing home as soon as worlds is cancelled as she has not seen me since January and that was only a short visit.

However, don't you think the argument here is that most skaters actually would like to see if Worlds is a possibility rather than shutting it down that far in advance? I mean, even if it gets pushed back a month, 2 months, or whatever, I think they would mostly or all say they would like to compete, right?

 

[Vagabond]

I think that most skaters would rather have a definite answer in January than train and have their hopes dashed at the last moment, as happened last season.

 

[taz'smum]

However, don't you think the argument here is that most skaters actually would like to see if Worlds is a possibility rather than shutting it down that far in advance? I mean, even if it gets pushed back a month, 2 months, or whatever, I think they would mostly or all say they would like to compete, right?

Of course most skaters want to hang onto the possibility, but if it is going to be shut down anyway, better they know sooner rather than later.

 

[taz'smum]

I think that most skaters would rather have a definite answer in January than train and have their hopes dashed at the last moment, as happened last season.

I agree, it was devastating to have Worlds pulled when the skaters were fully geared up and ready to compete.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

If you cancel worlds early you risk the possibility that you cancel and then find out it could have been held.
If you wait to cancel worlds you risk the possibility that skaters train the whole time and then worlds was cancelled.

Either way you go, you risk the chance that one of these errors will be made. You cannot avoid this risk.

Do people really think skaters would take the first risk over the second?

 

[MsZem]

Of course most skaters want to hang onto the possibility, but if it is going to be shut down anyway, better they know sooner rather than later.

But the ISU can't say for certain whether Worlds will have to be shut down. If things improve due to the combination of preventive measures and some vaccination, we're not going to know that in January.

 

[tony]

I think that most skaters would rather have a definite answer in January than train and have their hopes dashed at the last moment, as happened last season.

It's not as if the majority of skaters who are still currently training even have a chance at going to Worlds. Have all the junior skaters suddenly up and left the rink/skating as a whole at any point this year, even with next to no competitions? If Worlds does get canceled, I'm sure the countries who have been operating events throughout the year will just pick up on having more domestic events, and some skaters will get to work on their Olympic-season programs earlier than usual.

The ISU was in an impossible situation last season. All of us know the world fell apart in the week prior to Worlds. Bad timing, yes. But sorry about it- many people across the US and the world also lost their jobs permanently at the same time and many athletes had their sports shut down so it wasn't as if figure skaters were the only ones to have their 'hopes dashed'. Based on interviews and comments, they all 'got' it and understood it to be part of life. IIRC, the three A's (or at least Kostornaia) were quoted shortly after and said something to the extent of it not changing anything, and they will just continue training. This is coming from the likely medal-sweep competitors.

If you cancel worlds early you risk the possibility that you cancel and then find out it could have been held.
If you wait to cancel worlds you risk the possibility that skaters train the whole time and then worlds was cancelled.

Either way you go, you risk the chance that one of these errors will be made. You cannot avoid this risk.

Do people really think skaters would take the first risk over the second?

Exactly.

 

[Vagabond]

It's not as if the majority of skaters who are still currently training even have a chance at going to Worlds.

So? You asked about why it mattered when Worlds would be canceled. It wouldn't make a difference to such skaters, but it would to those who do have a chance.

 

[marbri]

I think a decision should be made by mid-January. You should know all you need to know by then. So if the plug needs to be pulled they pull it and let the skaters coach fees and ice time fees go towards practicing and choreographing for the Olympic season. No point wasting February and March practicing the Finnstep when you can put your resources towards whatever the next pattern is.

 

[MacMadame]

I don't see any reason why Worlds couldn't happen, if not in March, then in April or May. By then the oldest and most vulnerable of the officials, coaches, and potential volunteers would probably have been vaccinated or at least enough of them will be. Also, the horrible surges that we are experiencing now should have died down because people will not be visiting each other for the holidays in spite of orders. And people in the Northern Hemisphere will be starting to come out of the inside more as it warms up.

There may have to be more hard shutdowns between now and then to get things under control in the worst-hit areas of the globe, but I would be surprised if we were in a hard shutdown anywhere in March let alone May.

I'm not saying it's a lock. Something unexpected could happen that would make having Worlds impossible. But it seems unlikely.

The question in my mind is whether or not there would be an audience. I would guess not. But even that is up in the air depending on how fast people get vaccinated and what that does to infection rates in the impacted countries (the ones having Worlds and sending people to Worlds).