Interview with Nina Mozer

Oh my…. This is getting out of hand.... this is very silly, and now i have interrupt my work project to stop this idiocy ......and i am on deadlines....... ah!

a) Mozer did not say “homemaker” as in “hausfrau”, nor did she even use the Russian word “homemaker”.
In Russian a word for “homemaker” is “домохозяйка”. Mozer used a completely different word - “хранительница домашнего очага”, which is a very respectful, romantic, almost mythological term which means “Keeper of the Homestead Flame”.

While one can casually use “keeper of the homestead flame” to mean “housekeeper”/”homemaker”, in the given context Mozer chose a more metaphorical phrase, which does underline gender role differences but is not an insult: “The men are warriors, the women are keepers of the homestead flame”.

Here are some russian pictures of the word she used for a woman - “Keeper of the Homestead Flame”.
http://sdelayuyutno.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/hrfnitelnica.jpg
http://sdelayuyutno.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/hestia.jpg
http://mirvsemye.ru/images3/zhenshchina-hranitelnitsa-domashnego-ochaga(2).jpg

- “men off to war, while women keep fire of home and love” as a phrase, is a popular image in Russia, and the whole idea behind the song "Katiousha".
https://prv1.lori-images.net/devush...zhaet-na-voinu-soldata-0012904645-preview.jpg
http://coollib.com/i/16/303816/i_091.jpg
http://pit.dirty.ru/dirty/1/2011/01/30/30352-222433-27eff1e54bd1b9329d703ad1476552db.jpg

I don’t think she was referring to mythology, nor do I agree with her gender evaluation, but certainly she did not use a term which belittles women.

b) Mozer did not say “white people”. She did not even use the word “people”, but used the word “white” in combination with the word “race”, which in Russian means “Caucasians”. Given that the rest of her comments were about variations in the anatomy of different races, she was referring to anthropology.

c) Mozer’s comments about skeletal muscle structure differences are not “racism”.
Ethnicity related skeletal muscle structure differences and variations (along with other differences) are COMMON subjects of study, weather or not there is validity to the findings. It is a normal subject for discussion.
https://aminer.org/archive/53e9a45cb7602d9702d78261
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2795070/
 
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@Tinami Amori
Whatever her points are, they are not substantiated as 4 out of 6 people on World Pair podium were Caucasian, and furthermore- 10 out of 12 top Pair skaters at Worlds. So the first paragraph does not survive any scrutiny.
Neither does calling a Spanish man "Latinos" and putting a sole Spaniard in skating in any kind of "category". Neither is justifying the wins of Russian women by supposedly their different psychology than that of "Women of the East". She ignores the innumerable and recent medals of Asian women.
In short, Mozer makes no sense- in the original.
 
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dinakt said:
@Tinami Amori
Whatever her points are, they are not substantiated as 4 out of 6 people on World Pair podium were Caucasian, and furthermore- 10 out of 12 top Pair skaters at Worlds. So the first paragraph does not survive any scrutiny.
Neither does calling a Spanish man "Latinos" and putting a sole Spaniard in skating in any kind of "category". Neither is justifying the wins of Russian women by supposedly their different psychology than that of "Women of the East". She ignores the innumerable and recent medals of Asian women.
In short, Mozer makes no sense- in the original.
Click to expand...
... and what does it have to do with the 3 specific issues i covered: translations of the words "homemaker" & "white people" and the subject of "skeletal muscle differences"?
 
Tinami Amori said:
Oh my…. This is getting out of hand.... this is very silly, and now i have interrupt my work project to stop this idiocy ......and i am on deadlines....... ah!

a) Mozer did not say “homemaker” as in “hausfrau”, nor did she even use the Russian word “homemaker”.
In Russian a word for “homemaker” is “домохозяйка”. Mozer used a completely different word - “хранительница домашнего очага”, which is a very respectful, romantic, almost mythological term which means “Keeper of the Homestead Flame”.

While one can casually use “keeper of the homestead flame” to mean “housekeeper”/”homemaker”, in the given context Mozer chose a more metaphorical phrase, which does underline gender role differences but is not an insult: “The men are warriors, the women are keepers of the homestead flame”.

Here are some russian pictures of the word she used for a woman - “Keeper of the Homestead Flame”.
http://sdelayuyutno.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/hrfnitelnica.jpg
http://sdelayuyutno.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/hestia.jpg
http://mirvsemye.ru/images3/zhenshchina-hranitelnitsa-domashnego-ochaga(2).jpg

- “men off to war, while women keep fire of home and love” as a phrase, is a popular image in Russia, and the whole idea behind the song "Katiousha".
https://prv1.lori-images.net/devush...zhaet-na-voinu-soldata-0012904645-preview.jpg
http://coollib.com/i/16/303816/i_091.jpg
http://pit.dirty.ru/dirty/1/2011/01/30/30352-222433-27eff1e54bd1b9329d703ad1476552db.jpg

I don’t think she was referring to mythology, nor do I agree with her gender evaluation, but certainly she did not use a term which belittles women.

b) Mozer did not say “white people”. She did not even use the word “people”, but used the word “white” in combination with the word “race”, which in Russian means “Caucasians”. Given that the rest of her comments were about variations in the anatomy of different races, she was referring to anthropology.

c) Mozer’s comments about skeletal muscle structure differences are not “racism”.
Ethnicity related skeletal muscle structure differences and variations (along with other differences) are COMMON subjects of study, weather or not there is validity to the findings. It is a normal subject for discussion.
https://aminer.org/archive/53e9a45cb7602d9702d78261
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2795070/
Click to expand...

Lol. Your post is almost as crazy as Mozer's interview
 
dinakt said:
Elizabet's father is Kazakh, her Mom is from Kyrgyzstan.
Denis is from an ethnic Korean minority of Kazakhstan, thus his connection to both Kazakhstan and Korea.
Neither skates Pairs, though:), so why they made it into the interview, I am not sure
Click to expand...

BUT - if TursyTen (catchy, huh?) were a pair they would annihilate all her crippled Caucasians with their quick muscles, not to mention Duhamel/Radford a non-entity who have not apparently won anything significant. TursyTen for Gold in Pyeoungchang!

The other part I found almost as surprising was her mentions of Versace and Dior. I always thought she was more Elton John at the Dress4Less.

It was a fun, ridiculous interview, perhaps she had a few too many before speaking. Sometimes people talk crazy throw-away stuff off the top of their heads...perhaps she also has some more well-considered thoughts (I hope).
 
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She's probably completely spooked from Worlds and had to hit the booze because she knew what kind of questions would be coming. :nopryde: She also has the Elton John glasses which blurs her vision, everybody has a color tint about them and probably appear 8-10 times larger/smaller in size.
 
Tinami Amori said:
I don’t think she was referring to mythology, nor do I agree with her gender evaluation, but certainly she did not use a term which belittles women.
Click to expand...

I think you will find that many women find it belittling to be called "Keeper of the Homestead Flame." Used in opposition to "warrior," it implies that women are not fit to be warriors. The whole construction has similarities to the Victorian notion of "Angel of the House" which was used to justify the separate spheres philosophy. Here the argument was that women were not to involve themselves in the public sphere -- government, politics, war etc. -- because their job was to maintain the purity and spirituality of the home. Indeed, they were not equipped for government, having being predestined to be "domestic goddesses." Biological justifications were made to sustain this line of argument too: women's reproductive organs or their weak nervous systems would not allow them to move beyond the home. To do so would be to risk their health.

With the outbreak of WW1, one sees many recruitment posters very similar to those in your images, which play on these sentiments, reinforcing the notion that women were not warriors, but keepers of the homes. Men in turn were called upon to do the heroic thing and protect the "angels of the house," the homes that were a spiritual haven, and the nation whose wellbeing was founded on well-ordered and spiritually pure homes. Feminists in the Victorian era and in later years exposed this "respectful, romantic, almost mythological term" for what is was, pointing to its far more insidious effects. They noted that it kept many women confined to the home, limiting their ability to actualize their potential and depriving society of their talents. By putting that sort of romantic gloss on this type of oppression, Mozer is simply perpetuating it. It needs to be recognized for what it is.
 
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nlloyd said:
I think you will find that many women find it belittling to be called "Keeper of the Homestead Flame." Used in opposition to "warrior," it implies that women are not fit to be warriors. The whole construction has similarities to the Victorian notion of "Angel of the House" which was used to justify the separate spheres philosophy. Here the argument was that women were not to involve themselves in the public sphere -- government, politics, war etc. -- because their job was to maintain the purity and spirituality of the home. Indeed, they were not equipped for the government sphere, having being predestined to be "domestic goddesses." Biological justifications were made to sustain this line of argument too: women's reproductive organs or their weak nervous systems would not allow them to move beyond the home. To do so would be to risk their health.

With the outbreak of WW1, one sees many recruitment posters very similar to those in your images, which play on these sentiments, reinforcing the notion that women were not warriors, but keepers of the homes. Men in turn were called upon to do the heroic thing and protect the "angels of the house," the homes that were a spiritual haven, and the nation whose wellbeing was founded on well-ordered and spiritually pure homes. Feminists in the Victorian era and in later years exposed this "respectful, romantic, almost mythological term" for what is was, pointing to its far more insidious effects. They noted that it kept many women confined to the home, limiting their ability to actualize their potential and depriving society of their talents. By putting that sort of romantic gloss on this type of oppression, Mozer is simply perpetuating it. It needs to be recognized for what it is.
Click to expand...

I wish I could like this a thousand times!
 
In any event, Russian women were never in a million years considered to be "Keepers of the Homestead Flame" but were always work horses who laid bricks whilst their husbands drank gasoline (only a very slight exaggeration/generalisation :p) so I have no idea where Mozer got this "romantic notion of the feminine Keepers of the Flame" from
 
dinakt said:
@Tinami Amori
Whatever her points are, they are not substantiated as 4 out of 6 people on World Pair podium were Caucasian, and furthermore- 10 out of 12 top Pair skaters at Worlds. So the first paragraph does not survive any scrutiny.
Neither does calling a Spanish man "Latinos" and putting a sole Spaniard in skating in any kind of "category". Neither is justifying the wins of Russian women by supposedly their different psychology than that of "Women of the East". She ignores the innumerable and recent medals of Asian women.
In short, Mozer makes no sense- in the original.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute. I rarely agree with anything Timani posts, BUT she is only pointing out translation issues. There is a huge difference between 'housewives' and 'keepers of the homestead flame'. I think it's important that the words are translated carefully. The interview is UGLY regardless, full of chauvinistic and racist comments - but lets have a correct translation to base our opinions on.
 
Perky Shae Lynn said:
Wait a minute. I rarely agree with anything Timani posts, BUT she is only pointing out translation issues. There is a huge difference between 'housewives' and 'keepers of the homestead flame'. I think it's important that the words are translated carefully. The interview is UGLY regardless, full of chauvinistic and racist comments - but lets have a correct translation to base our opinions on.
Click to expand...

Timani is not the only Russian on this forum and there are many Russian expressions which have no word-for-word translation into English. I don't know wtf a "keeper of the homestead flame is" but the expression Mozer used is basically "homemaker". What's the difference between "homemaker" and "housewife" in practice?
 
Perky Shae Lynn said:
Wait a minute. I rarely agree with anything Timani posts, BUT she is only pointing out translation issues. There is a huge difference between 'housewives' and 'keepers of the homestead flame'. I think it's important that the words are translated carefully. The interview is UGLY regardless, full of chauvinistic and racist comments - but lets have a correct translation to base our opinions on.
Click to expand...
No problem, dear. Once I get payed for the translations I will make sure to translate each word super carefully..Till then you can either use google translate or live with 'type English while I read Russian' translations.
 
Xela M said:
In any event, Russian women were never in a million years considered to be "Keepers of the Homestead Flame" but were always work horses who laid bricks whilst their husbands drank gasoline (only a very slight exaggeration/generalisation :p) so I have no idea where Mozer got this "romantic notion of the feminine Keepers of the Flame" from
Click to expand...
To be accurate, Mozer never said Russian women were considered 'keepers of the homestead flame'; rather, she implied that asian women are.

And to be fair, it's not an uncommon perception. Once during my grad school years, there was an informal question/answer session between grad students and a Chinese female professor of biology at an American university. In response to a question about work-life balance, her answer was something like "I'm from northern China, and yes it's traditional that the men work outside the home and make the money and the women are expected to stay at home and take care of kids. But it's also different across regions in China. For example, Shanghai women are the opposite. I have a friend from Shanghai, and she makes her husband wash her feet. That would be unthinkable in northern China!" I glanced at a fellow grad student from Shanghai sitting across the room to see what she thought of this answer -- she caught my eye and nodded in agreement. It was :rofl:.

TAHbKA said:
No problem, dear. Once I get payed for the translations I will make sure to translate each word super carefully..Till then you can either use google translate or live with 'type English while I read Russian' translations.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your translations. I know that they must take a lot of your time, and we absolutely appreciate them. They're infinitely better than google translate. Nevertheless, I also think it's beneficial for our discussion to be open to constructive comments about the accuracy of the translations :).
 
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altai_rose said:
To be accurate, Mozer never said Russian women were considered 'keepers of the homestead flame'; rather, she implied that asian women are.

And to be fair, it's not an uncommon perception. Once during my grad school years, there was an informal question/answer session between grad students and a Chinese female professor of neuroscience at an American university. In response to a question about work-life balance, her answer was something like "I'm from northern China, and yes it's traditional that the men work outside the home and make the money and the women are expected to stay at home and take care of kids. But it's also different across regions in China. For example, Shanghai women are the opposite. I have a friend from Shanghai, and she makes her husband wash her feet. That would be unthinkable in northern China!" I glanced at a fellow grad student from Shanghai sitting across the room to see what she thought of this answer -- she caught my eye and nodded in agreement. It was :rofl: (especially as I've seen how she interacts with her husband :lol:)


Thank you for your translations. I know that they must take a lot of your time, and we absolutely appreciate them. They're infinitely better than google translate. Yet, I would still think it's beneficial for our discussion to be open to constructive comments about the accuracy of the translations...
Click to expand...

The translation was accurate!! Chinese women are the richest women in the world and Mozer is a moron.

In fact, I have known and worked with countless women of Asian descent - ranging from Hong Kong, mainland China, Japan, Kazakhstan etc and Mozer's "insights" are still stupid and wildly inaccurate.
 
TAHbKA said:
No problem, dear. Once I get payed for the translations I will make sure to translate each word super carefully..Till then you can either use google translate or live with 'type English while I read Russian' translations.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for all your wonderful translations throughout the years. I've done just a few translations myself and know how time consuming they are (though I am not nearly as fluent in Chinese as you are in Russian), so I can appreciate your generous and tireless efforts for finding and interpreting all these articles for us. You give us a glimpse and insight that most of us would otherwise totally miss. You are the mythical, untouchable Kazhak-Chinese Canadian of translators!:)
 
At times during this interview it feels like she's just saying things without them necessarily being true,

Could be translation though

When did Meagan Duhamel injure her...Chin ...?
 
Perky Shae Lynn said:
Wait a minute. I rarely agree with anything Timani posts, BUT she is only pointing out translation issues. There is a huge difference between 'housewives' and 'keepers of the homestead flame'. I think it's important that the words are translated carefully. The interview is UGLY regardless, full of chauvinistic and racist comments - but lets have a correct translation to base our opinions on.
Click to expand...

Just to get one more opinion, I will ask my Russian teacher on Friday what she thinks of such an expression (does it even exist in Russian?). I don't have a class tonight with my other teacher (the semester ended Monday- YAY!). Both teachers have repeatedly said that you cannot compare the two languages, and one of them even said that it is not good to translate; it's better to think in Russian write directly in it (I don't always follow her advice though :lol:). However, I have no choice where FS articles are concerned. I depend on the translations posted here because it takes me too long to translate and my translations are terrible. Some day I hope to do better.

I don't think those two terms are very different. They both mean one who takes care of the house. In most cultures a homemaker's jobs (using intentionally) are not exactly easy. One should not be sneered at for taking care of the house/being a housewife. A woman has a choice to pursue career or take care of the home and children, but the women Nina is referring to are hardly housewives/homemakers/keepers of the homestead flame, etc. I also didn't like her sexist tone in the interview, and the racism in it made me roll my eyes.
 
Xela M said:
The translation was accurate!! Chinese women are the richest women in the world and Mozer is a moron.

In fact, I have known and worked with countless women of Asian descent - ranging from Hong Kong, mainland China, Japan, Kazakhstan etc and Mozer's "insights" are still stupid and wildly inaccurate.
Click to expand...

It seems she was looking for excuses for the Russian skaters who missed the podium, which means all except the Russian ladies who skated great. The only skater that had a legitimate excuse was Fedor Klimov and he did quite well, considering the extent of his injury.
 
Vash01 said:
It seems she was looking for excuses for the Russian skaters who missed the podium, which means all except the Russian ladies who skated great. The only skater that had a legitimate excuse was Fedor Klimov and he did quite well, considering the extent of his injury.
Click to expand...

Clearly you are not familiar with the "Keeper of the Homestead Flame" concept :COP:
 
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