If a skater withdraws after the SP, is the first DNQ skater permitted to skate in the FP?

[exNyer]

While watching Japan nationals I noticed that a skater withdrew from the free skate. If given sufficient notice, is the first skater cut from making the free skate allowed to continue in the competition?
Does it vary from various countries?

 

[Amy L]

No. It doesn't happen like that in international competitions, so I don't imagine that it happens at any particular nationals either.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I don't know if things are different now, but I am reminded when Michal Brezina was forced to withdraw from the 2014 World Figure Skating Championships after the Men's Short Program.

At the draw for the Men's Free Skate, the organisers were very clear that the 25th placed skater would not be allowed to skate in his place.

Brezina looked so sad hobbling around on crutches at the press conference, knowing that his season was over.

 

[olympic]

Makes sense as to why, but they should. If they withdraw after the LP draw, they can just inherit the WD's skate order no.

 

[gkelly]

Makes sense as to why, but they should. If they withdraw after the LP draw, they can just inherit the WD's skate order no.

So if someone wins the SP and then withdraws, the skater who finished 25th in the short should skate at the end of the event?

What would make more sense would be that if a skater withdraws after the SP but before the FS draw, then the skater who was 25th can be drawn with the 20-24 group, and the skater who was 19th moves up to the next higher group, etc.

Not sure if that works at events that don't have a draw but are now mandatory to skate the FS in reverse order, since the FS skate order is then known as soon as the SP results are posted.

Of course, if someone withdraws during the SP, then they won't have a placement and the skater who does place 24th (but might have been 25th without the withdrawal) does advance.

 

[olympic]

So if someone wins the SP and then withdraws, the skater who finished 25th in the short should skate at the end of the event?

What would make more sense would be that if a skater withdraws after the SP but before the FS draw, then the skater who was 25th can be drawn with the 20-24 group, and the skater who was 19th moves up to the next higher group, etc.

Not sure if that works at events that don't have a draw but are now mandatory to skate the FS in reverse order, since the FS skate order is then known as soon as the SP results are posted.

Of course, if someone withdraws during the SP, then they won't have a placement and the skater who does place 24th (but might have been 25th without the withdrawal) does advance.

I was thinking of those circumstances where the LP draw has already taken place, and the skater has decided to WD. You would have to reorganize everyone's draw numbers or I suppose you can make them go #1 and push everyone back

 

[tony]

So if someone wins the SP and then withdraws, the skater who finished 25th in the short should skate at the end of the event?

What would make more sense would be that if a skater withdraws after the SP but before the FS draw, then the skater who was 25th can be drawn with the 20-24 group, and the skater who was 19th moves up to the next higher group, etc.

Pretty sure that's what would have happened once upon a time, but I don't know that it ever did. I remember discussions around Butyrskaya not withdrawing prior to the SP draw at 2002 Worlds, and maybe someone even pulling up the rulebook showing that the next-best skater would've indeed qualified in her doing so.

Not sure if that works at events that don't have a draw but are now mandatory to skate the FS in reverse order, since the FS skate order is then known as soon as the SP results are posted.

Yes, which makes me think this no longer applies either way.

 

[ice coverage]

From 2023 Junior Worlds:

After Grimm/Savitskiy competed in Friday afternoon RD, they had to withdraw before Saturday afternoon FD because of illness.

The result was that nineteen couples competed in FD.
Ten couples did not qualify for FD, and no one was moved up to "replace" G/S in FD.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season2223/wjc2023/CAT004RS.htm

https://results.isu.org/schedules/WJC2023_ColouredTimeSchedule.pdf

From ISU media advisory at the time:
"Darya Grimm/Michail Savitskiy (GER) have withdrawn from the Ice Dance event at the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2023 Saturday following the morning practice citing illness (Grimm)."

 

[gkelly]

Pretty sure that's what would have happened once upon a time, but I don't know that it ever did. I remember discussions around Butyrskaya not withdrawing prior to the SP draw at 2002 Worlds, and maybe someone even pulling up the rulebook showing that the next-best skater would've indeed qualified in her doing so.

That might have been true for withdrawals between qual round and SP, especially in years when the qual round placements were not counted in the final results.

But I don't think it was ever true for withdrawals between SP and FS.

 

[skatingguy]

From 2023 Junior Worlds:

After Grimm/Savitskiy competed in Friday afternoon RD, they had to withdraw before Saturday afternoon FD because of illness.

The result was that nineteen couples competed in FD.
Ten couples did not qualify for FD, and no one was moved up to "replace" G/S in FD.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season2223/wjc2023/CAT004RS.htm

https://results.isu.org/schedules/WJC2023_ColouredTimeSchedule.pdf

From ISU media advisory at the time:
"Darya Grimm/Michail Savitskiy (GER) have withdrawn from the Ice Dance event at the ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2023 Saturday following the morning practice citing illness (Grimm)."

You scared me for a moment. I saw Grimm/Savitskiy withdraw due to illness & thought, 'oh no, not again.' before realizing you were talking about last season.

 

[DreamSkates]

Makes sense as to why, but they should. If they withdraw after the LP draw, they can just inherit the WD's skate order no.

But they wouldn’t have a SP score to rake into the LP for a total score .

 

[gkelly]

But they wouldn’t have a SP score to rake into the LP for a total score .

I thought the OP was asking about large events where only the top X skaters (usually 24) advance from the short program to the free skate. I.e., the first skater cut from the free would have been 25th after the short program.

Not about inviting skaters who didn't qualify for the event in the first place to join in mid-competition.