From Russia with love [#27]: Summer 2017

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Eislauffan said:
Adian had back problems and he is not the biggest/strongest/tallest skater out there, so I wonder about that decision. Ice dance lifts are really demanding these days. But I will be happy if he can continue skating and enjoys it.
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I was thinking the same - how does he plan to lift her with his back problems. Though there are some lifts where it is more about balance than him lifting her, e.g. him doing the drag and she standing on his leg, or him doing spread eagle and she would stand on his leg - in those lifts the strain on his back may not be as bad if she would be standing on him?
 
Moka-Ananas said:
But wasn't Gumennik primarily coached by Tataurov anyway?
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No, Tataurov stopped coaching him last year. Mishin started coaching Gumennik full-time somewhere around the spring of 2016. Not sure exactly when, but the ISU profile was changed in 2016 to reflect only Mishin's name as coach. Tataurov doesn't even work at the same rink as Mishin anymore. Last year during the summer or fall Tataurov moved to the new rink and he has his own coaching group now, consisting of younger skaters.
 
Eislauffan said:
When I was in Tartu I talked to Mishin and he told me that he did not take Lisa Nugumanova and Petr Gummenik to the training camp because of disciplinary reasons. According to him, Lisa was not listening anymore and she and her mother thought apparently she is a big star. As for Petia, he said that the mother is a problem ("skating mom").
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That is interesting. Because Mishin and his Mishin Camps PR staff marketed Liza Nugumanova as a big star before she officially debuted on the JGP circuit. On the poster advertising Mishin's seminar in Canada in May 2016, they billed her as "a rising phenomenon". When Tatiana Mishina was interviewed after Russian Junior Nationals in 2016, she called little Liza "the next Tuktamysheva". So if what Mishin is saying about Nugumanova's attitude is true, then Mishin himself is part of the cause of it too. I don't know why he didn't see this coming.
 
When you spoil the child and suddenly want to discipline her, it just won't work. Nugumanova's under-rotations were always going to be a problem for her with strict judges. Her former coaching team chose to build this hype around her before she achieved any real success. And now according to Mishin it has gotten to her head. Well, too late.

As for Petya, sometime in the past years I recall Mishin calling him "a future Olympic champion" or whatever. With Mishin it is always "the next XX" or "the future XX" for skaters he especially loves. Tuktamysheva was "the next Slutskaya" and Gachinski was "the next Plushenko". That kind of hype either causes unnecessary pressure on the skater (like with Tuktik) or it gets to their head (like with little Liza). But old habits die hard.
 
adelia said:
That is interesting. Because Mishin and his Mishin Camps PR staff marketed Liza Nugumanova as a big star before she officially debuted on the JGP circuit. On the poster advertising Mishin's seminar in Canada in May 2016, they billed her as "a rising phenomenon". When Tatiana Mishina was interviewed after Russian Junior Nationals in 2016, she called little Liza "the next Tuktamysheva". So if what Mishin is saying about Nugumanova's attitude is true, then Mishin himself is part of the cause of it too. I don't know why he didn't see this coming.
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I think he doesn't object to the fact that she is a star (although I expected better results than she had this last season, so I wouldn't really call her a star.). The problem may be that the 'fame' got into her head and influenced her behaviour, not the fame on its own. It is also possible that she is going through puberty and that's the reasl reaon for her behaviour...

Didn't she miss senior nationals as a punishment? I think she qualified and then was withdrawn.
 
hanca said:
Didn't she miss senior nationals as a punishment? I think she qualified and then was withdrawn.
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Yup. Officially the coaching team said she was ill. But Liza herself was posting photos on instagram at the rink. Obviously she was not ill.
 
What I don't understand though, is that if Mishin thought Petya had been having disciplinary problems, or has a "stage mum", why did he take Petya with him to Austria in late April for a seminar? Petya was the only skater Mishin brought with him. I don't understand this part.
 
adelia said:
Because Mishin and his Mishin Camps PR staff marketed Liza Nugumanova as a big star before she officially debuted on the JGP circuit. On the poster advertising Mishin's seminar in Canada in May 2016, they billed her as "a rising phenomenon".
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Eislauffan said:
According to him, Lisa was not listening anymore and she and her mother thought apparently she is a big star.
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Plushenko *was* a star, and that didn't stop him from listening to Mishin.
 
adelia said:
Yup. Officially the coaching team said she was ill. But Liza herself was posting photos on instagram at the rink. Obviously she was not ill.
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I remember it being said at the time by her team that she was skipping senior Nationals to prepare for juniors after having a rough JGPF.
 
Meoima said:
Plushy's early time was vastly different from today. Not as much distraction and not much hype.
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There was definitely a lot of hype surrounding Plushenko, although it wasn't due to YouTube but his actual results - World Junior Champ at 14, European and World Medallist at 15. Plushenko had his moments of diverging from the plan (his LP at 1998 Worlds comes to mind) but he mostly listened to Mishin.
 
Yehudi said:
There was definitely a lot of hype surrounding Plushenko, although it wasn't due to YouTube but his actual results - World Junior Champ at 14, European and World Medallist at 15. Plushenko had his moments of diverging from the plan (his LP at 1998 Worlds comes to mind) but he mostly listened to Mishin.
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Yeap but it's not the current days kind of distraction and hype. Plushenko for sure didn't go on the internet at age 15 and reply his fans on ask.fm
 
Chernivskaya is on Russian ice partner search. I knew her partnership wouldn't last long, considering who her partner was.
 
Mishin always talks up his promising students, it has nothing to do with excessive love and everything to do with garnering sponsorship deals for his group. He provided a lot of financial help to Plushenko and Tuktamysheva, it is part of the reasons they chose to stick with him through thick and through thin.
 
quiqie said:
Mishin always talks up his promising students, it has nothing to do with excessive love and everything to do with garnering sponsorship deals for his group. He provided a lot of financial help to Plushenko and Tuktamysheva, it is part of the reasons they chose to stick with him through thick and through thin.
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At the beginning of Plushenko's career. Plushenko earned a lot of money from his early age. After his JWCH title
( 14. y.o) he bought an apartment in St. Petersburg and the family could live together again. So he could have moved to another coach if he wants. They simply love and respect each other. They did everything for each other like father and son https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKMaT6oy87c
 
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Plushenko could have left Mishin, as long as they had their finances in order, since often coaches didn't charge up front, but took a percentage if earnings. Plushenko could have afforded a financial divorce starting from his late teens, had he wanted one.

If Plushenko was in it for the money after he had provided for his family, he would have stayed married to his first wife, whose father was a bazillionaire. He could have stayed in politics, gone into business, made a fortune as a front man, and left skating behind instead of actively producing shows, starting a school, and doing the work. I never got the feeling he was in it for the money for himself so much: if anything, his comebacks were for the medals for him and money for Mishin's rink. St. Petersburg was heading towards being a skating ghost town for a while. He could have made more money in other skating ways.
 
Can you guys imagine if Deputat switches to dance and becomes Elena's partner? That would be really interesting considering the fact that Bobrova is his wife. Not sure if I want to see this happen but his future in pairs isn't as bright anyways... :wideeyes:
 
PurpleRain said:
Can you guys imagine if Deputat switches to dance and becomes Elena's partner? That would be really interesting considering the fact that Bobrova is his wife. Not sure if I want to see this happen but his future in pairs isn't as bright anyways... :wideeyes:
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I don't think Elena would accept a dance beginner. It would take years for him to get to her level, if at all, and she already has two Olympic medals so she is not that desperate for another one.
We know what happened when Khokhlova tried ice dance with a dance beginner, and that time there was a huge advantage that his mother is an accomplished ice dance coach, so they could have a lot of lessons...it still didn't help.
 
PurpleRain said:
Can you guys imagine if Deputat switches to dance and becomes Elena's partner? That would be really interesting considering the fact that Bobrova is his wife. Not sure if I want to see this happen but his future in pairs isn't as bright anyways... :wideeyes:
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He isn't going to switch to dance and he wouldn't be anywhere near her level if he did. Who says he has no future in pairs if he can find the right partner? Enbert is 28, Rogonov is 29, and they were older than Deputat when they got together with their current partners.
 
zebraswan said:
He isn't going to switch to dance and he wouldn't be anywhere near her level if he did. Who says he has no future in pairs if he can find the right partner? Enbert is 28, Rogonov is 29, and they were older than Deputat when they got together with their current partners.
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Chill. I didn't say he has no future in pairs. I said it's not looking as bright. Not necessarily saying I want Elena and him to be partners either. I spoke of it as an interesting idea or thought... Not an actual they-should-try-and-work-together kind of thing... After her split with K, I wasn't really sure if I wanted to see her skate with anyone else and now that her and Ruslan are apparently done, she should probably just do other things and come back to skating if she gets a partner who can match her star quality.
 
Deputat, Miroshkin, Zakroev, Bich...such a waste. They looked so promising a few years ago and where are they now... and maybe soon we will add Mirzoev to the list.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Plushenko could have left Mishin, as long as they had their finances in order, since often coaches didn't charge up front, but took a percentage if earnings. Plushenko could have afforded a financial divorce starting from his late teens, had he wanted one.

If Plushenko was in it for the money after he had provided for his family, he would have stayed married to his first wife, whose father was a bazillionaire. He could have stayed in politics, gone into business, made a fortune as a front man, and left skating behind instead of actively producing shows, starting a school, and doing the work. I never got the feeling he was in it for the money for himself so much: if anything, his comebacks were for the medals for him and money for Mishin's rink. St. Petersburg was heading towards being a skating ghost town for a while. He could have made more money in other skating ways.
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Between Plushenko and Mishin had only verbal agreement, if I right remember Mishin received 10% from Plushenko's every incomes.
And yes, I laughed at those Russian haters who said Plushenko wants to compete because of the money.They surprisingly didn't know he earned much more money if he didn't compete. That is also obvious if he would have stayed with his first wife he lives as a billionair hotelier today. But the love of the skating defeats everything.
.
 
hanca said:
Deputat, Miroshkin, Zakroev, Bich...such a waste. They looked so promising a few years ago and where are they now... and maybe soon we will add Mirzoev to the list.
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Pairs men have more time on their side than singles skaters & in some of these cases, they arrogantly thought they could just dump their partner for a girl with better jumps or who weighs less, and discovered it's not that easy. So my sympathy is limited...
 
zebraswan said:
Pairs men have more time on their side than singles skaters & in some of these cases, they arrogantly thought they could just dump their partner for a girl with better jumps or who weighs less, and discovered it's not that easy. So my sympathy is limited...
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I agree with the arrogant bit, my sympathy may be also limited, but it is such a waste of talent. Most countries struggle to put together one or two pairs, and yet there are talented males in Russia that are currently not achieving much. Such a waste.
 
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