Ermolina's interview with Mishin `A programme without the quads is empty'

I agree with Mishin. Athletes must push the envelope. In this age a quadless performance is indeed empty. Men have been landing quads since the early 1990s, and kept advancing the sport until 2010. Fortunately the rule changes after that encouraged skaters to challenge themselves with quads. This year Yuzuru needed 4 quads to win the worlds.

I might add, I highly respect Mishin for what he gave the sport, especially as a coach.
 
Vash01 said:
This year Yuzuru needed 4 quads to win the worlds.
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Yes, and they ( Mishin and Plush, Stojko and many others) probably knew this will happen and waited it. I'm sure they couldn't accept that their favorite SPORT! was in regression. They really believed that. Probably everybody knows how much Plushenko celebrated Fernandez and Yuzuru's victory with several quads in past seasons.

Vash01 said:
I might add, I highly respect Mishin for what he gave the sport, especially as a coach.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Behind the seemingly strict exterior there is a smart,educated, interesting, unique humorous man who worked for this sport in his whole life who had many innovations, many coaches are using his teaching method of jumps. He was invited to US with his most famous pupil. But they didn't want to go. Because Russia is their home.


edite: And we don't forget most of the male skaters love the jumps, love the quad! They want to do it!!!!
 
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Vash01 said:
I agree with Mishin. Athletes must push the envelope. In this age a quadless performance is indeed empty. Men have been landing quads since the early 1990s, and kept advancing the sport until 2010. Fortunately the rule changes after that encouraged skaters to challenge themselves with quads. This year Yuzuru needed 4 quads to win the worlds.
I might add, I highly respect Mishin for what he gave the sport, especially as a coach.
Click to expand...
I respect Mishin a lot. But he should know that most casual fans can not tell if the skaters do 3 or 4 revolutions on air. I mean they can tell if the jumps look big, have more ice coverage and smooth landings. But it is very hard for them to tell which is a quad. I have got many questions from young people on ask.fm about "how can you tell which jump has 3 or 4 revolutions".
 
Meoima said:
I respect Mishin a lot. But he should know that most casual fans can not tell if the skaters do 3 or 4 revolutions on air. I mean they can tell if the jumps look big, have more ice coverage and smooth landings. But it is very hard for them to tell which is a quad. I have got many questions from young people on ask.fm about "how can you tell which jump has 3 or 4 revolutions".
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They have to learn to watch and understand. It takes time and desire. Applies to all sports.

I learned to watch and understand Football (American), though I never played it.
 
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Vash01 said:
They have to learn to watch and understand. It takes time and desire. Applies to all sports.

I learned to watch and understand Football (American), though I never played it.
Click to expand...
That's not the point. The point is Mishin assumes that the people watching the competition understand which jump is a quad and are more excited because of the difficulties. That's not true. Many people watch it don't know what a quad is. On Facebook and twitter I have seen many people ask "how to tell if it's 4 revolutions". I am just pointing out the truth. Especially in Olympic season when many casual viewers turn the tivi on, they will not know whose programs are more difficult unless the commentators tell them.
Not to mention, many people are excited just to watch Jason Brown's River Dance and did it have any quad? None.
 
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Meoima said:
That's not the point. The point is Mishin assumes that the people watching the competition understand which jump is a quad and are more excited because of the difficulties. That's not true. Many people watch it don't know what a quad is. On Facebook and twitter I have seen many people ask "how to tell if it's 4 revolutions". I am just pointing out the truth. Especially in Olympic season when many casual viewers turn the tivi on, they will not know whose programs are more difficult unless the commentators tell them.
Not to mention, many people are excited just to watch Jason Brown's River Dance and did it have any quad? None.
Click to expand...

Competitions are meant for people with some knowledge. They are not for people that dont even bother to educate themselves. I don't think Mishin or any coach or athlete should dilute the content to the level if those who don't understand the sport and obviously don't care,
 
Meoima said:
That's not the point. The point is Mishin assumes that the people watching the competition understand which jump is a quad and are more excited because of the difficulties. That's not true. Many people watch it don't know what a quad is. On Facebook and twitter I have seen many people ask "how to tell if it's 4 revolutions". I am just pointing out the truth. Especially in Olympic season when many casual viewers turn the tivi on, they will not know whose programs are more difficult unless the commentators tell them.
Not to mention, many people are excited just to watch Jason Brown's River Dance and did it have any quad? None.
Click to expand...
The people who care about skating learn that they have to count the revolutions. The people who don't care will likely watch it on TV rather than live because why would they spend that amount of money to watch it live? And watching it on tv has the advantage that the commentator usually names the jumps, so they don't need to count it themselves. All they need is to be aware that a triple jump is harder than a double jump, and a quad jump is harder than a triple.
 
Vash01 said:
Competitions are meant for people with some knowledge. They are not for people that dont even bother to educate themselves. I don't think Mishin or any coach or athlete should dilute the content to the level if those who don't understand the sport and obviously don't care,
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Great post! :respec:
 
Vash01 said:
Competitions are meant for people with some knowledge. They are not for people that dont even bother to educate themselves. I don't think Mishin or any coach or athlete should dilute the content to the level if those who don't understand the sport and obviously don't care,
Click to expand...
Who says Mishin or other coaches should dilute the content? The point is Mishin assume that people watching it could tell which jump is which and the number of revolutions and feel more excited by it. My experience is that it's not the case.
 
hanca said:
The people who care about skating learn that they have to count the revolutions. The people who don't care will likely watch it on TV rather than live because why would they spend that amount of money to watch it live? And watching it on tv has the advantage that the commentator usually names the jumps, so they don't need to count it themselves. All they need is to be aware that a triple jump is harder than a double jump, and a quad jump is harder than a triple.
Click to expand...
Well not really true. I have seen some people who come to skating competitions just for some reason like: it's near their home and they have the money, and they want to try something new. Some people just come for ice dance and of course they couldn't tell the number of revolutions in single skating. I also paid for some dance competitions even though I had no idea about dance and whoever won didn't matter much. My point is, the number of revolutions on the air isn't the decisive point that makes audience feel excited.
I am sure audience at US national sometimes ago felt pretty much excited towards Jason's river dance without any quad whatsoever.
 
lala said:
Yes, and they ( Mishin and Plush, Stojko and many others) probably knew this will happen and waited it. I'm sure they couldn't accept that their favorite SPORT! was in regression. They really believed that. Probably everybody knows how much Plushenko celebrated Fernandez and Yuzuru's victory with several quads in past seasons.



Totally agree. Behind the seemingly strict exterior there is a smart,educated, interesting, unique humorous man who worked for this sport in his whole life who had many innovations, many coaches are using his teaching method of jumps. He was invited to US with his most famous pupil. But they didn't want to go. Because Russia is their home.


edite: And we don't forget most of the male skaters love the jumps, love the quad! They want to do it!!!!
Click to expand...
Thank you for your comments, @lala! So many great points that you have highlighted for us. Excellent!!
 
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Weve3 said:
Thank you for your comments, @lala! So many great points that you have highlighted for us. Excellent!!
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You are kind :) I think many posters disagree with you.;) Like TAHbKA she said she doesn't like to translate Mishin's interviews because of Plushenko fans who defend him. This is a little bit false because Mishin aren't talking about quads, Vancouver, Plushenko, etc all the time.
And I hardly believe after this article, after this title anyone thought that there won't be a great debate again.. That poster was right who said this thread is like FSU's greatest hits. :biggrinbo This is not Plush fans' fault.:shuffle: This shows how to work a FS forum.
 
Meoima said:
But doesn't take away that a program without quad can excite the audience. Ask Jason Brown.
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There is a counterexample for every statement or there is always an exception. ;)

Jason is undoubtably amazing.
 
lala said:
There is a counterexample for every statement or there is always an exception. ;)

Jason is undoubtably amazing.
Click to expand...
Or that Mishin should take into account that many audiences can not tell the number of the rotations. And that there are many ways to excite the audiences.
 
The problem with this is that you have an audience that's not typically interested in skating, and there's this great performance that speaks to them - but then they find out that the skater in question is not going to be competitive at the highest level because the tech isn't there. So I wonder if it's not somewhat counterproductive in the long term.

But I agree that what speaks to non-fans isn't necessarily quads. James/Cipres had their LP go viral on Facebook a few months ago, and it's because people responded to the performance and their connection with the music, not because they went for a quad throw.
 
When I've been among local "civilians" after traveling to competitions, the only elements I've routinely see get claps are spins and for Pairs, lifts. The split twists get oohs and ahs, but they're over too fast: it's the sustained elements that draw the applause.
 
Considering that Plushenko's mother worked in the freezing cold to pave streets to earn a living when they first moved to St. Petersburg...
 
bardtoob said:
@alchemy void , it can't be a greatest hits thread involving Mishin without noting that Mishin once said, "Russian women are not very good for figure skating. They are good for building rail tracks in Siberia, for example. They are just too strong and big."

:rofl: ... That still cracks me up ... :rofl:
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You do know it was a joke right?.. intentional joke, from Mishin, and the journalist made the notations to make sure it is obvious..... underlining that Mishin was laughing/winking when saying that, and the journalist knowing the text of the poem Mishin was quoting, set up the questioning accordingly.
http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/214554

Mishin was playing with Classic Russian poem, by Nekrasov, which translates something like "The mighty woman of Russian Village"
https://www.inpearls.ru/264700
... she is proud and strong, can lift a ton, stop a galloping horse, rush into a barn on fire without a hose..... etc.
 
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