Does french figure skating have a culture of rape ? FFSG in the storm

[allezfred]

All statistics show that women are vastly outnumbered by men when it comes to this sort of abuse.

 

[PRlady]

All statistics show that women are vastly outnumbered by men when it comes to this sort of abuse.

When a woman IS an abuser, it becomes a news story. There's an ongoing saga in Israel about an Orthodox woman who used to run a girls' day school in Australia and is accused of abusing many students. She's been hiding out in a WB settlement and her lawyers are insisting she's too out of it to be extradited. Meanwhile there are dozens of male abusers in the yeshivas who get 1 minute of news coverage, if at all.

 

[nimi]

Former skater Jean-Christophe Simond calls Didier a narcissist who'll never resign. "He is a character who lives only through conflict. When there are none, he seeks to create them. At the moment he must be very satisfied with all the agitation that is around him... like any narcissistic pervert." He thinks Didier has not yet grasped the seriousness of the situation.

"Didier Gailhaguet est un pervers narcissique", dénonce un ex-patineur

Pour Jean-Christophe Simond, Didier Gailhaguet ne "donnera jamais sa démission" car "trop accroché au pouvoir".

www.rtl.fr

Damien Boyer-Gibaud, president of the Angers ice dance club, calls on other club presidents in France to "wake up!" and "save ice sports in France."

Violences sexuelles dans le sport. Un président de club exhorte les autres présidents à « se réveiller » pour mettre fin à l'ère Gailhaguet

Damien Boyer-Gibaud, le président du club de danse sur glace d'Angers, lance dans Ouest-France un appel à tous les autres présidents de clubs de patinage de France, pour qu'ils se désolidarisent du président de la Fédération française des sports de glace Didier Gailhaguet. Lui, l'un des...

www.ouest-france.fr

machine translated excerpt:

I understand the silence of the majority of our athletes still in their careers, it is so difficult for them to express themselves. I understand the silence of the great family of officials, they are appointed by the federation. On the other hand, I do not understand the silence of club leaders.

Ladies and gentlemen of the presidents, even if your clubs are not concerned, why keep quiet? Fear leads to nothing, and true power is we who have it. We are the voters, the decision-makers. Be brave, be brave, think of the victims. The ones who talked. The ones who are going to talk. And the ones who will never talk. Think of your children (in their flesh, not their career above all), think of your members, your athletes, your volunteers who may give up one after the other at this rate. We have to react, fast, well and together. For ice sports, and more broadly for sport in general.

 

[Carolla5501]

All statistics show that women are vastly outnumbered by men when it comes to this sort of abuse.

I do volunteer work with the Girl Scouts and several years ago I was at a training where our insurance provider was there going over the "new rules" to prevent abuse. We asked "how many claims have you had against the Girl Scouts" Response? None, but the rules were in place because of all the claims they had against the Boy Scouts (and this was before the Boy Scouts decided to allow girls in to give them NEW 'targets') So based on this purely circumstantial evidence I would also state that it appears men dramatically outnumber women when it comes to abusing!

 

[Vagabond]

This is the post that hijacked this thread.

Women have got to be present in positions of power in all fields. Only then will there be some glimmer of hope for a solution!

Because women would never be perpetrators of sexual abuse? But they can be! I worked with a few who did all sorts of things to children!

@Asli had a valid point, whether one agrees with it or not. The response, however, was unwarranted and looks to me like trolling.

 

[Asli]

Press conference PBP: (in French) Conférence de presse de Didier Gailhaguet
He will not resign and claims to have been made aware of those stories last week (like everyone else)...

How can Gailhaguet claim he was unaware of these claims, when apparently in 2001 a Ministry of Sports inquiry had decided that Beyer should not be allowed to work with minors and the Ministry had removed him from his public duties?

Then, in 2011, it seems Gailhaguet asked the federation's executive committee to reinstate Beyer as the leader of the junior team!

How could Gailhaguet have explicitly asked for Beyer"s reinstatement, if he was unaware of the results of the inquiry?

https://www.20minutes.fr/sport/2712...-reintegration-beyer-2011-affirme-maracineanu

He really doesn't have a leg to stand on!

 

[nimi]

He really doesn't have a leg to stand on!

Nope, but that doesn't stop him from trying to shift the blame onto everybody else, including Gwendal Peizerat's dead father...

𝕄 (@East_From_Eden) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from 𝕄 (@East_From_Eden). 32. She/Her. AC: 4377-2768-4490. Français & English. Bi🌈. Book lover📚. Uniquely obscene & sophisticated.☀️Virgo ♍️, ⬆️ Taurus ♉️, 🌙 Aries ♈️. France

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ETA: Gwendal Peizerat réplique après les attaques "indécentes" de Didier Gailhaguet contre son père décédé (VIDEO)
Peizerat's machine translated answer: "He can't say that my father can know exactly what Didier Gailhaguet knew, who spends 75 hours a week at the FFSG and lives on that. What indecency! What an abject being to attack a deceased person who today will no longer be able to respond to his attacks. (...) "I am a business manager, I don't need this and that's why Didier Gailhaguet is afraid of me and that's why when he wants to attack me, he hits my family. It is my mother who is suffering today (...)"

 

[Vagabond]

French sports minister urges abuse victims to speak up

Maracineanu told reporters at Global Sports Week in Paris that she was "launching a solemn appeal to all victims, past and present, to speak up so that we can find the offenders and prosecute them."

I think she is trying to build the strongest possible case before she goes nuclear.

In a statement to Agence France Presse, Beyer admitted to "intimate" and "inappropriate" relations with Abitbol. He could not be reached for comment.

How convenient!

 

[Orm Irian]

And then there's this, providing a slightly lighter note amidst all the awfulness. Gotta love a good Asterix reference!

 

[Barbara Manatee]

He did not know? Okay. Somehow for years and years he did not notice a dangerous, ongoing situation that seems to have been common knowledge. There are books and interviews and story after story coming out about abusive behavior and corruption at every level of his organization, but he never heard a word about any of it until just now. The federation he is responsible for is getting horrible headlines worldwide, its future is in question, and he totally did not see it coming. Well then, he's admitting to being absolute crap at his job, and should resign for being incompetent.

 

[Asli]

In any case, not knowing is not an excuse for the head of a federation. It was his job to know, especially since there has been a damning official inquiry about Beyer.

 

[hanca]

Women sexual abusers do exist. However, can anyone imagine all women in a field closing ranks to protect a female child rapist at all costs, the way middle-aged white men in power positions do for their own?

Like @PRlady said, women abusers are a minority and like @Barbara Manatee said, diversity in power positions makes it easier to combat abuse.

I can’t see a reason why a woman couldn’t protect a rapist. In the past I have seen a case of a woman.......(deleted, too graphic content)...., and enabling her boyfriend (non related to her daughter) do the same.

 

[hanca]

@Asli had a valid point, whether one agrees with it or not. The response, however, was unwarranted and looks to me like trolling.

Of course you would think that. But that does say a lot about you...

 

[MsZem]

I can’t see a reason why a woman couldn’t protect a rapist. In the past I have seen a case of a woman [deleted since hanca has since edited her post]

There's a difference between anecdote and data.

Of course there are cases in which women committed or covered up sexual assaults. But the vast majority of such cases involve men, and having more women (and more diverse individuals) in senior positions to turn to would be helpful to many.

 

[Tesla]

You know, a warning for post #252 would've been nice or that rather graphic info put into a spoiler box with a warning.

 

[Vagabond]

Of course you would think that. But that does say a lot about you...

How kind of you to say so.

 

[hanca]

You know, a warning for post #252 would've been nice or that rather graphic info put into a spoiler box with a warning.

You are right, it is too graphic. I deleted it, but I can’t do anything about the content being quoted by other people.

 

[Tesla]

You are right, it is too graphic. I deleted it, but I can’t do anything about the content being quoted by other people.

Thank you.

 

[Holy Headband]

The off-topic question that’s watering down this thread is not whether women are less likely to be sexual predators than men but whether women in power are more likely to uncover and redress sexual abuse, since the original comment implied a comparison between the French sports minister and DG in respect to how they’re handling the situation. So can we stop arguing about whether female pedophiles exist? (Yes, of course they do.)

For the record, while most (but not all!) sexual assault prevention and response campaigns are the result primarily of female/non-cismale grassroots organisers’ efforts, there’s absolutely no reason to assume that a female politician will take the side of the victim(s) in a high-profile case like this, or express inborn feminist sympathies in any way.

Margaret Thatcher was rumoured to cultivate pedophiles and alcoholics because people who can be blackmailed are easier to control. (At the time, simply being gay was also seen as serious blackmail material and public morality often did not make a distinction between homosexuality and male-on-male sexual violence, but I don’t know enough about these rumours to say whether some of Thatcher’s supposed pedophile associates were unfairly labelled because of contemporary homophobia.) Hillary Clinton stood by her husband when he exploited a young intern. More recently, Finland’s new finance minister, part of their overhyped girl power cabinet, ran an Instagram poll asking her followers whether Finland should repatriate its female citizens from former ISIS territories, or just take their children and leave the women in the camps.

Anyway. You should look at a person’s politics, not their gender. Personal experience can inform politics, but the process is not uniform or straightforward.

Also I’m sorry to contribute such a long post to this off-topic conversation because I think it’s pointless and distracts from the more important matter of what’s happening in France right now. I promise not to engage in this side discussion further and encourage everyone else to do so. (If anyone has objections to my point/examples, feel free to message me.)

 

[taz'smum]

Margaret Thatcher was rumoured to cultivate pedophiles and alcoholics because people who can be blackmailed are easier to control.

Margaret Thatcher was a woman?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villainstournament/images/b/b6/Margaret_Thatcher_%28Puppet%29.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20190410194747

 

[Primorskaya]

@Primorskaya - You are putting your own interpretation on what I have said. I didn't say France was more corrupt and had more dirty dealings than Russia. I was mainly referring to the setup where DG has complete control over everything that happens in French skating which had been to our detriment even before the release problems. It is DG's way or No Way!

And I am well aware of that. That was just my attempt at levity in a rather depressing thread...

 

[taz'smum]

And I am well aware of that. That was just my attempt at levity in a rather depressing thread...

Whoops, I took it seriously, yikes!
Must have read one too many troll posts.....

 

[Nmsis]

Another horrifying story published today on l'equipe.

Violences sexuelles: une mère et sa fille accusent Gilles Beyer de chantage

L'ancienne championne de France juniors Nadjma Mahamoud et sa mère racontent comment Gilles Beyer aurait essayé d'obtenir fin 2017 des faveurs sexuelles contre la prise en charge gratuite de la patineuse aux Français volants.

www.lequipe.fr

A former French junior champion from a family with modest means: Beyer tried to coerce her mother into prostitution to pay for her lessons. The text messages were shared with the journalist who corroborates the mother's story.

Nadjma !
OMG I remember that year.
She was training in Annecy with Didier Lucine and Gailhaguet blasted the club.
Most of the girls from Annecy suddenly moved to Bercy.
I remember none of them lasted long there. They disappeared within a year.
I remember wondering why Nadjma had suddenly stopped competing.

 

[kirkbiggestfan]

Nadjma !
OMG I remember that year.
She was training in Annecy with Didier Lucine and Gailhaguet blasted the club.
Most of the girls from Annecy suddenly moved to Bercy.
I remember none of them lasted long there. They disappeared within a year.
I remember wondering why Nadjma had suddenly stopped competing.

He wanted to have a 3-some with the mother and the daughter!!! Beyer is such a sick pervert. I can't wait for him to go to jail.

 

[cholla]

Nadjma !
OMG I remember that year.
She was training in Annecy with Didier Lucine and Gailhaguet blasted the club.
Most of the girls from Annecy suddenly moved to Bercy.
I remember none of them lasted long there. They disappeared within a year.
I remember wondering why Nadjma had suddenly stopped competing.

I hope that what happened to Nadjma and her mother didn't happen to Lénaëlle and Anaïs (and maybe others whose names slip my mind right now but it's 3 a.m....) who did more or less vanish too

 

[nimi]

Michel Lotz is suing Anne Bruneteaux and Béatrice Dumur, the 2 women who talked to L'Equipe about Lotz abusing & assaulting them when he was their coach in the 80s, for libel (is that the right term?)

Allier - Violences sexuelles dans le patinage : l'entraîneur de l'Allier mis en cause assigne ses accusatrices en justice

Mercredi, L'Equipe et L'Obs ont publié les témoignages édifiants d’anciennes patineuses qui accusent leurs entraîneurs de l’époque de violences sexuelles quand elles étaient mineures. L’un d’eux, Michel Lotz, qui réside dans l’Allier, nie fermement les faits et a décidé de contre-attaquer sur le...

www.lamontagne.fr

This Le Monde article outlines the disturbing accusations against Lotz originally published in L'Equipe

D’anciennes patineuses françaises accusent leurs entraîneurs d’agressions sexuelles

Dans une enquête publiée mercredi par « L’Equipe », Hélène Godard, Anne Bruneteaux et Béatrice Dumur accusent d’ex-entraîneurs d’agressions et de viols lorsqu’elles étaient mineures. Dans un livre, Sarah Abitbol charge aussi l’un d’eux.

www.lemonde.fr

According to this paywalled L'Equipe article and contrary to what Didier claimed on Wednesday, he knew about Dumur's accusations against Lotz back in 2013.

Violences sexuelles : Didier Gailhaguet savait pour Michel Lotz depuis 2013

Contrairement à ce qu'il a affirmé mercredi, le président de la Fédération française des sports de glace était au courant des accusations de Béatrice Dumur à l'encontre de Michel Lotz depuis 2013.

www.lequipe.fr

 

[MacMadame]

It's probably libel. We also have slander in the US. Libel is written and slander is spoken. Basically.

Defamation, Slander and Libel

Defamation is an area of law that provides a civil remedy when someone's words end up causing harm to your reputation or your livelihood. Libel is a written or publi

www.nolo.com

 

[cocotaffy]

This time around in the same French broadcast here is DG's interview. Not impressed at all, not that I ever expected to be but he is really just blaming everyone else not taking one ounce of responsibility. He says at the end of the interview that, if after investigation which was apparently requested, him quitting proves to be the solution he'll do it Sure as if ...
That skater interview and shown in the broadcast, Anne Line Rolland (here is the full broadcast), my heart goes out to her. Heartbreaking testimony of how she wasn't supported one bit by the FFSG after being raped by her coach who was found guilty. She denounced a "law of silence" in the federation and how DG orchestrated it, evidence had been provided during her trial, but he has always refused to take any responsibility.

 

[nimi]

More accusations of FFSG covering up abuse. A coach called Katia Gentelet was sanctioned in 2018 for "moral harassment" and other problematic behavior that she exhibited between 2010 and 2017, incl. showing up to the rink late and hungover in the mornings, insulting and body-shaming her underage students, weighing kids on daily basis, not allowing them to drink anything before the end of training session, etc. Several of her students ended up developing eating disorders.

The coach basically denies everything.

What did the club president Michel Gentelet ("a close friend" of Didier's) do when parents complained to him about the coach? "He called us all the names at this meeting (...) He said if we talked, he'd call on the Russian mafia. He forced us to sign a document in which we agreed not to reveal anything. I refused, but some parents agreed."

It was only after a third report was filed and procureur de la République (Chief Prosecutor?) got involved that the coach was dismissed and the club president was ousted.

The article goes on to say that in his press conference, Didier used this very case as an example of him taking decisive and timely action to tackle abuse. In reality, Didier had been warned several times of Gentelet's behavior over the years and there were at least two letters, one addressed directly to the President of the Federation, that went unanswered.

Gailhaguet a-t-il couvert une entraîneure accusée de harcèlement à Nice ?

Selon nos informations, plusieurs patineurs poursuivent une ex-entraîneure en justice pour harcèlement moral entre 2010 et 2017, après avoir averti la Fédération en vain

www.20minutes.fr

 

[cocotaffy]

More accusations of FFSG covering up abuse. A coach called Katia Gentelet was sanctioned in 2018 for "moral harassment" and other problematic behavior that she exhibited between 2010 and 2017, incl. showing up to the rink late and hungover in the mornings, insulting and body-shaming her underage students, weighing kids on daily basis, not allowing them to drink anything before the end of training session, etc. Several of her students ended up developing eating disorders.

The coach basically denies everything.

What did the club president Michel Gentelet ("a close friend" of Didier's) do when parents complained to him about the coach? "He called us all the names at this meeting (...) He said if we talked, he'd call on the Russian mafia. He forced us to sign a document in which we agreed not to reveal anything. I refused, but some parents agreed."

It was only after a third report was filed and procureur de la République (Chief Prosecutor?) got involved that the coach was dismissed and the club president was ousted.

The article goes on to say that in his press conference, Didier used this very case as an example of him taking decisive and timely action to tackle abuse. In reality, Didier had been warned several times of Gentelet's behavior over the years and there were at least two letters, one addressed directly to the President of the Federation, that went unanswered.

Gailhaguet a-t-il couvert une entraîneure accusée de harcèlement à Nice ?

Selon nos informations, plusieurs patineurs poursuivent une ex-entraîneure en justice pour harcèlement moral entre 2010 et 2017, après avoir averti la Fédération en vain

www.20minutes.fr

At least the press isn't letting go. Finally. Hopefully, they'll keep digging, digging and digging even deeper. It's mind blowing how much they could get away with. Shame on them all.