David Wilson Calls for New Leadership at Skate Canada

[Judy]

True, more Canadians would have been upset if the Super Bowl got canceled.

While they didn't name anybody in their press release, they got the point across that it was due to guidance from public health:

"The severe level of disruption to training of athletes caused by the ********* and the evolving and unpredictable restrictions associated with travel and hosting events contributed to the decision."

“As we move into a new year, we continue to closely monitor and follow the guidance from the provincial and federal health authorities. Due to the continuous shift in requirements across the country, the inability of our athletes to train due to the closure of ice rinks and the number of participants that would be required to travel, it became clear that it would not be possible to host these events,”

SC Press Release

Unpredictable changes and restrictions is putting it lightly.

 

[overedge]

Further to @Willin list, off the top of my head here are other things that USFS does but Skate Canada doesn't:

• monthly national news magazine
• Friends of Figure Skating (open to people outside the US too) to recognize and reward supporters
• Memorial Fund and other opportunities to donate [SC only started the Skate Canada Fund about three years ago]
• Solo dance events and competitions
• Adult skating tests and competitions, plus national Adult Skating Committee and new regional/national events for lower level adult skaters
• Adult category at Synchro Nationals
• Theatre on Ice competitions, including a national championship
• Showcase competitions

I could go on, but as you can see there are many more ways to participate or stay in skating in the US than in Canada.

 

[overedge]

I keep forgetting about the ban on ********* but yes nurses, etc do cross to work. You can google but Windsor/Detroit is one of the cities.

Windsor/Detroit is one of the few cities, and health care workers are one of the few categories of workers allowed to cross. Your general point about workers regularly crossing the border is not true for the majority of the country and for the majority of workers.

 

[Judy]

Windsor/Detroit is one of the few cities, and health care workers are one of the few categories of workers allowed to cross. Your general point about workers regularly crossing the border is not true for the majority of the country and for the majority of workers.

???

It is not just health care.

https://www.workforcewindsoressex.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Cross-Border-Employment-Report.pdf

Windsor-Essex, Ont., cross-border workers weigh in on U.S. election

Living in a border city, Windsorites have front row seats to this election. But some residents won’t be sitting on the sidelines: they will be there, watching the post-election aftermath play out — first hand.

windsor.ctvnews.ca

 

[overedge]

@Judy that document is dated 2017. There was no p*nd*m*c then. We are talking about who is allowed to cross the border now.

 

[Judy]

@Judy that document is dated 2017. There was no p*nd*m*c then. We are talking about who is allowed to cross the border now.

If the job is open under covid on the other side then they are allowed to cross. If it’s an essential position - amazon is considered essential here, I would assume it is the same there etc.

Are we finished now?

 

[MacMadame]

I could go on, but as you can see there are many more ways to participate or stay in skating in the US than in Canada.

And yet we can't get any more members than Canada who has a smaller population to draw from. I think that shows that figure skating is more popular in Canada and that USFS could do even more to promote skating here.

But I digress...

 

[Judy]

And yet we can't get any more members than Canada who has a smaller population to draw from. I think that shows that figure skating is more popular in Canada and that USFS could do even more to promote skating here.

But I digress...

The U.S. skating has some huge sports to compete with though.

 

[MacMadame]

The U.S. skating has some huge sports to compete with though.

But Canada has curling!!

Seriously, Canada has big sports too, just not the same ones as the US.

 

[LoopCombo]

As someone who was at both Bern in 2011 and Graz last year, 2020 Euros was most definitely NOT held at an outdoor rink.

My bad! I remember it being described as ‘practically an outdoor rink’ and super cold in an interview I read with one of the skaters about Europeans, but probably the skater was exaggerating, or it was a google translate fail!

 

[overedge]

If the job is open under ********* on the other side then they are allowed to cross. If it’s an essential position - amazon is considered essential here, I would assume it is the same there etc.

Are we finished now?

The whole point of this discussion is the difference between countries and regions on restrictions related to the pandemic. I wouldn't assume that something being allowed somewhere is being allowed everywhere.

 

[_Lola_]

As was pointed out earlier in the thread, there is apparently no hotel/ice rink complex in Canada that can be "bubbled" the same way that the Orleans in Las Vegas was for US Nationals.

As it was also pointed out in this thread, you don't necessarily need a hotel attached to the rink and you're probably not aware of the situation regarding all rinks/hotels in Canada. I also agree with an argument that it seems that many (not all) Canadians on this board don't want the Nationals to happen and keep finding more and more arguments to justify the federation's decision instead of questioning it. I agree with the poster who said that at the end - it's a matter of will. If there is a will, one channels their energy in finding ways to have the Nationals. If there is no will, one spends their energy in justifying why it is not possible to have them. Why wouldn't you put yourself in the position of figure skaters, coaches and choreographers, your fellow Canadians? I think if there is a voice "from below" in the beloved sport, there is more reasons to listen to it rather than the voice of the federation who made the decisions that some people in the sport are clearly not happy about. As for equal access to training facilities, I doubt such thing exists in the first place at all in this very expensive sport. Anyway, skaters would have a choice to participate or withdraw depending on their preparedness. It's better than no choice at all.

 

[dramagrrl]

Anyway, skaters would have a choice to participate or withdraw depending on their preparedness. It's better than no choice at all.

I personally feel like had they decided to go ahead with Canadians, skaters would have felt a lot of pressure to attend or risk losing their national ranking, potential spots at Worlds, and future international assignments. Even if SC had put together criteria for choosing spots for the national team and potential Worlds slots that were "fair" (meaning that results at Canadians would be only one criteria on a list), it is very likely that the federation would have highly prioritized those who skated successfully and medaled at Nationals. As many have mentioned above, skaters in some provinces have had very limited training due to rinks being closed due to lockdowns and other complications, while others have been training outside the country and would have to deal with cross-border travel to attend.

While it is true that SC could have had more "will" and found a safer (not safe - because there is no way to hold a fully safe event like this during a global pandemic) way to hold the competition, I don't think the cancellation is going to have a huge effect on the sport in Canada as some are predicting. This season is pretty much a wash-out even if Worlds ends up going ahead. As long as skaters are continuing to train as best as they can under their provincial regulations and are able to essentially jump back into competition mode once things return to normal (or at least somewhat normal, with a regular GP season and more surety that the Olympics are actually going to happen next year), this year will be easily forgotten in the long run. In terms of funding, TV deals, sponsorships, etc., it is the Olympic seasons that are the ones where SC needs to make sure that skating is in the public eye and getting as much attention as possible. The general public is not going to know or care that Skate Canada International or Canadians were cancelled in a pandemic year, as long as they see our skaters on Olympic ice should the 2022 Olympics happen as planned.

(ETA - For those who have been speculating about a "bubble" arena in Canada, SC hasn't held a competition at the FirstOntario Centre - formerly Copps Coliseum - in Hamilton for years, but if things haven't changed since the years when I attended competitions at Copps, it is attached to an underground mall and I believe also to a hotel across the street, so I think technically, it could have served as a "bubble" venue like the one in Vegas.)

 

[misskarne]

I personally feel like had they decided to go ahead with Canadians, skaters would have felt a lot of pressure to attend or risk losing their national ranking, potential spots at Worlds, and future international assignments.

Yeah, every time I see someone say "the skaters have a choice!" I have to do a bit of a double-take and ask myself if these people remember how intensely goddamn political this sport is.

There are very, very few skaters with the untouchable political power to pull off not going to Nationals when Nationals is held. Maybe Patrick Chan, Virtue/Moir or Duhamel/Radford could have done it. I doubt any of the current Canadian skaters could have.

 

[_Lola_]

Yeah, every time I see someone say "the skaters have a choice!" I have to do a bit of a double-take and ask myself if these people remember how intensely goddamn political this sport is.

Right, let's cancel this sport altogether. It gives no equal access to training, it has politiking in-built into it and is based on subjective judging. Let's cancel it and explain it by lack of social justice and care for vulnerable groups.

 

[dramagrrl]

Right, let's cancel this sport altogether. It gives no equal access to training, it has politiking in-built into it and is based on subjective judging. Let's cancel it and explain it by lack of social justice and care for vulnerable groups.

Wait, I have an even better idea! Let's not cancel it, and just shut up about all the inequities in the sport and never question them at all! Why even think about these things when they're just "part of the sport" and never going to change?? We should just accept it and move on!

 

[Desperado]

I also agree with an argument that it seems that many (not all) Canadians on this board don't want the Nationals to happen and keep finding more and more arguments to justify the federation's decision instead of questioning it.

What exactly do you think the Canadians on this board could’ve done to change SC’s mind about the cancellation?

I was very disappointed that Nationals were cancelled as I really enjoyed the virtual challenge, but I’m not going to waste energy questioning the decision.

The Big P has made everything more complicated and the safety regulations have constantly changed over the year, at a national, provincial and municipal level without a set timetable, so I can easily see them throwing their hands up in the air.

One outbreak, or one curfew, and they would’ve had to cancel the whole thing after all that effort.

Also, the P. means that on an individual and family level, I am dealing with a lot more weighty crap than is FS happening or not. So bandwidth too narrow to care.

And unless you have a kid going to the Nationals, I am dumbfounded as to why people are so emotional about this, and how many insist, from a far, that they should’ve happened no matter what.

 

[Parsley Sage]

I personally feel like had they decided to go ahead with Canadians, skaters would have felt a lot of pressure to attend or risk losing their national ranking, potential spots at Worlds, and future international assignments. Even if SC had put together criteria for choosing spots for the national team and potential Worlds slots that were "fair" (meaning that results at Canadians would be only one criteria on a list), it is very likely that the federation would have highly prioritized those who skated successfully and medaled at Nationals. As many have mentioned above, skaters in some provinces have had very limited training due to rinks being closed due to lockdowns and other complications, while others have been training outside the country and would have to deal with cross-border travel to attend.

While it is true that SC could have had more "will" and found a safer (not safe - because there is no way to hold a fully safe event like this during a global *********) way to hold the competition, I don't think the cancellation is going to have a huge effect on the sport in Canada as some are predicting. This season is pretty much a wash-out even if Worlds ends up going ahead. As long as skaters are continuing to train as best as they can under their provincial regulations and are able to essentially jump back into competition mode once things return to normal (or at least somewhat normal, with a regular GP season and more surety that the Olympics are actually going to happen next year), this year will be easily forgotten in the long run. In terms of funding, TV deals, sponsorships, etc., it is the Olympic seasons that are the ones where SC needs to make sure that skating is in the public eye and getting as much attention as possible. The general public is not going to know or care that Skate Canada International or Canadians were cancelled in a ********* year, as long as they see our skaters on Olympic ice should the 2022 Olympics happen as planned.

(ETA - For those who have been speculating about a "bubble" arena in Canada, SC hasn't held a competition at the FirstOntario Centre - formerly Copps Coliseum - in Hamilton for years, but if things haven't changed since the years when I attended competitions at Copps, it is attached to an underground mall and I believe also to a hotel across the street, so I think technically, it could have served as a "bubble" venue like the one in Vegas.)

First Ontario Centre is still connected to a street level mall which is also connected to the Sheraton Hamilton hotel. The layout of the mall has changed a bit over the years and I'm not sure the access from the mall to the arena is still there.

Last spring/summer the arena was used as a homeless shelter. I'm not sure if they are using it for anything pandemic related right now. It could be used as a mass vaccination site.

 

[Judy]

But Canada has curling!!

Seriously, Canada has big sports too, just not the same ones as the US.

Omg I can’t stand curling but it definitely has a niche here.

 

[Colonel Green]

I think if there is a voice "from below" in the beloved sport, there is more reasons to listen to it rather than the voice of the federation who made the decisions that some people in the sport are clearly not happy about.

Wilson's unhappiness at the federation isn't justified by the facts, which are that it would not have been possible to hold in-person competitions to all evidence -- it was blatantly obvious that SCI couldn't happen in Ottawa in the weeks leading up to the cancellation, and the BC government likewise would not allow nationals; nor was there anyplace to move it. Just wishing away the problems by saying they could have somehow made it happen isn't fair to anyone involved.

 

[Mont]

From this thread, it sounds like Canadians themselves didn't want Nationals. I don't think Ms. Caron living in Europe really is the problem.

I would agree. She would be a huge problem wherever she lived. Again, while the specific decision may or may not be right, the deep rooted frustration is coming through and if David says it, many are thinking it but too afraid to speak.

 

[Tada]

Wilson's unhappiness at the federation isn't justified by the facts, which are that it would not have been possible to hold in-person competitions to all evidence -- it was blatantly obvious that SCI couldn't happen in Ottawa in the weeks leading up to the cancellation, and the BC government likewise would not allow nationals; nor was there anyplace to move it. Just wishing away the problems by saying they could have somehow made it happen isn't fair to anyone involved.

I’m appreciating your knowledge, facts, and rationale.
I was trying to remember how much money Skate Canada lost by Worlds 2020 being cancelled so close to when the event would have taken place. Do you know?
Are there any proven facts about why Caron is apparently not a good president? I’m trying to ignore all the assumptions.
Please help Colonel!

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

This discussion appears to be more circular than Kay Thomson's compulsory figures. I regret my participation,but do find some solace in the fact many participants here possess significantly more knowledge than Mr. Wilson regarding the logistics of figure skating.

-BB

 

[Tada]

And yet we can't get any more members than Canada who has a smaller population to draw from. I think that shows that figure skating is more popular in Canada and that USFS could do even more to promote skating here.

But I digress...

Fun Fact:
population of California is about 39 million.
population of Entire country of Canada is about 37 million.

 

[mjb52]

Canada is the second largest country in the world as well, just a bit bigger than the US, but has 1/10th the population.

 

[Mont]

I’m appreciating your knowledge, facts, and rationale.
I was trying to remember how much money Skate Canada lost by Worlds 2020 being cancelled so close to when the event would have taken place. Do you know?
Are there any proven facts about why Caron is apparently not a good president? I’m trying to ignore all the assumptions.
Please help Colonel!

1. Tone deaf decision to judge at Olympics while President. While allowed, inappropriate and shows putting self ahead of sport. 2. President during implementation of an unwieldy and expensive corporate structure. Waste of money. 3. Results speak for themselves. Every major on ice success under her time was developed by those before her. 4. clear lack of prioritizing development. Cutting back on opportunities for athletes yet finds the money for an expensive strategic plan. Result will be a dry stretch for Canada which should simply never happen.

these are just a few points.

 

[VarBar]

Is Japan Forward or Ice Time Canadian journalism? If it is not, I honestly don't understand why David would be complaining to them about Skate Canada's decisions instead of discussing the matter with Canadian media. Are they censoring him in Canada?

 

[sap5]

Wilson's unhappiness at the federation isn't justified by the facts, which are that it would not have been possible to hold in-person competitions to all evidence -- it was blatantly obvious that SCI couldn't happen in Ottawa in the weeks leading up to the cancellation, and the BC government likewise would not allow nationals; nor was there anyplace to move it. Just wishing away the problems by saying they could have somehow made it happen isn't fair to anyone involved.

Just so I understand, have there been no in-person competitions of any sport that uses an indoor rink in Canada since the pandemic began?

ETA: Besides the major NHL hockey we can see on tv

 

[skategal]

Just so I understand, have there been no in-person competitions of any sport that uses an indoor rink in Canada since the ********* began?

ETA: Excepting NHL hockey, of course

it depends on the province.

All sports are allowed to compete in Nova Scotia.

But We aren’t allowed to have tournaments yet though so Nationals wouldn’t be allowed to happen here.

Plus we have a 14 day mandatory quarantine for out of province visitors that Public Health won’t waive.

This means that it would be pointless to try to hold a National skating event here as athletes would have to stay in an apartment or hotel room for 14 days prior to competing.

 

[MacMadame]

Even if SC had put together criteria for choosing spots for the national team and potential Worlds slots that were "fair" (meaning that results at Canadians would be only one criteria on a list), it is very likely that the federation would have highly prioritized those who skated successfully and medaled at Nationals.

They don't do that even in non-pand3mic years.

Omg I can’t stand curling but it definitely has a niche here.

I find it oddly fascinating to watch. Not that I have any idea what is going on.