Cultural appropriation. Discuss.

[MacMadame]

Librarians are not responsible for what the library's users choose to read.

And they can't put a book on the shelf if it never gets written.

While I think some books are gross and some need to come with a warning label (Warning: The Fountainhead may lead to developing a worldview that mostly appeals to teenage boys and is beyond workable on a global scale), I am not for banning books even if I think they are egregious in some way. Instead, they can be "canceled" as educating people so they don't want to read them.

The notion here is that skating programs are inherently frivolous and not appropriate for big tragic stories from real life: Anna Karenina and Romeo & Juliet and other fictional tragedies are fine.

All sport and all entertainment are inherently frivolous IMO.

So does this person think no operas should be written about the Holocaust? No fictional accounts (i.e., Elie Wiesel's Night)? Or is it just sport that shouldn't do these things? I get that some people don't think a figure skating program can be art but IMO it can be and not all literature, music, etc. are art either. Or at least not "high" art. At some level, it's all frivolous so where do we draw the line?

 

[Wyliefan]

While I think some books are gross and some need to come with a warning label (Warning: The Fountainhead may lead to developing a worldview that mostly appeals to teenage boys and is beyond workable on a global scale), I am not for banning books even if I think they are egregious in some way. Instead, they can be "canceled" as educating people so they don't want to read them.

But then you run the risk of creating forbidden fruit, with all its temptations. Educate them, yes, but educate them in such a way that even if they do want to read them, they'll understand the problems in them.

 

[MsZem]

So I saw this OD at 2009 TEB, and while it doesn't go to the lengths DomShabs did, I am not sure it has aged all that well.

There were also three consecutive trashy American ODs, but also Blanc/Bouquet's Breton number and of course, Virtue and Moir.

 

[skatingfan5]

Part of the problem with that program is that there are strong religious/spiritual connotations to Australian Aboriginal Dances so it was a little like spoofing a Chatholic Mass.

Inwardly cringing as I recall the very inaccurate and not very respectful so-called "Indian" dances at Girl Scout summer camp(of which there mercifully is no recording of any kind).

 

[BlueRidge]

Blanc/Bouquet's Breton number

ah I was trying to remember them the other day!

2010 EC Blanc & Bouquet OD ESP

www.youtube.com

 

[VGThuy]

ah I was trying to remember them the other day!

2010 EC Blanc & Bouquet OD ESP

www.youtube.com

Still one of the best takes on the rhythm theme.

 

[MsZem]

ah I was trying to remember them the other day!

2010 EC Blanc & Bouquet OD ESP

www.youtube.com

That's the one! But at TEB Zoe also wore a cool headpiece

 

[skatingguy]

So I saw this OD at 2009 TEB, and while it doesn't go to the lengths DomShabs did, I am not sure it has aged all that well.

Linichuk is listed as one of their choreographers.

 

[Nmsis]

Still one of the best takes on the rhythm theme.

Because it was smartly disrespectful.
Because it never tried to mimic.
Because it was looking for the universal within the particular.
Because it was creative.
Because it went for the energy and the genuine fun, the same way they did with the first Bollywood OD in 2007.

Karine Arribert has used dozens of cultural "appropriation" musics along the years.
Like Hindi Sad Diamond from Moulin Rouge in 2004 (which probably gave her the idea to create a Bollywood OD 3 years later).
Like Sekouba Bambino's It's a man's man's World (a Guinean reinterpretation of James Brown's song) in 2006
Like Isaac by Madonna in 2009
Like Buena Vista Social Club & Coldplay's version of Clocks in 2011 (first latin meets brit pop rock SD; how long did it took for this to become a major trend in senior)
Like a swing version in spanish of supremely french George Brassens in 2018
Like Cicerenella by Piers Faccini or Bolero (Lonlon) by Angelique Kidjo in 2021

While their flavor influences costuming and moves, she uses those musics not for their local value but for the universality of their themes.
Like oppressive patriarchy. (she doesn't put asymetry in costumes just for effect, nor did she launch the trend of naked male shoulders just for the hunky side).
In pop music, musical, opera, folk music, in tango or lullaby, in english, french, spanish, romani, arabic, malinké, ... patriarchy is a well-shared assessment with liberating or tragic consequences for women.
The same for her second main theme : moving from childhood to adulthood (that she treats through all kinds of music, from rock to classical fairy tale ; Papa Can You Hear Me actually combined patriarchy AND moving from childhood to adulthood themes)
Those themes and their universality are a huge part of her work as a choreographer and I hope she'll never give in to the do and don't of this topic.

 

[skateycat]

I'm pretty certain this isn't the thread where this was recently brought up initally, but it's sort of related and I don't want to let it pass unremarked upon by me.

I am pleased that there is willingness to rename the change of direction moves to c-step and s-step. The naming of things like cars or skating moves or summer camps calls to mind an era when it was common to name things after Native American tribes because the sentiment was that it was a way to remember the glorious past of the West.

I know if someone today tried to call a skating move a Karuk I would be super angry and make it my next obsession to get them to quit. We are no one's little mascot buddies from the 1850s, and find that it is not helpful to be thought of as such.

Instead, like Chuck Hoskin, Jr., principal chief of the Cherokee Nation, told Car and Driver last year in a written statement, I think that "The best way to honor us is to learn about our sovereign government, our role in this country, our history, culture, and language and have meaningful dialogue with federally recognized tribes on cultural appropriateness." From https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35568468/cherokee-nation-jeep-stop-using-name/

 

[PRlady]

That post reminded me of the oddest-named car ever: https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/04/03/is-vw-regretting-the-name-of-its-signature-suv/

My cousin went to Camp Senaca and a friend to Camp Iroquois. I know the idea was to make kids realize they were living closer to the land but the names should be changed if offensive.

 

[denise3lz]

When I heard CA from Japanese news media
it is incident about American is criticized by American
because of adapting Japanese cultural thing.

It looks like conservatives don't like foreign culture and willing to eliminate it.
They are borrowing progressive sounding logic for their purpose.

 

[blue_idealist]

So I saw this OD at 2009 TEB, and while it doesn't go to the lengths DomShabs did, I am not sure it has aged all that well.

There were also three consecutive trashy American ODs, but also Blanc/Bouquet's Breton number and of course, Virtue and Moir.

I found his costume rather cringeworthy, and I say that as a big fan of that team (Nav/Bom).