Courier Mail | ISU to introduce radical changes to stamp out ‘trading’ of young athletes

[Theoreticalgirl]

Underage figure-skaters would be banned from the sport under a radical proposal from the sport’s world governing body in the wake of Katia Alexandrovskaya’s death.

In an extraordinary backflip, the International Skating Union (ISU) says it wants to raise the minimum competition age from 15 to 17 to stamp out the international ‘trading’ of young athletes.

https://www.couriermail.com.au/spor...n/news-story/c567f80f5c6869ba5c633f1f28a2b1ed

ETA: I think it's paywalled—this link might work.

bit.ly/2YQQapF

 

[once_upon]

https://www.couriermail.com.au/spor...n/news-story/c567f80f5c6869ba5c633f1f28a2b1ed

It appears the article is available by subscription only.

 

[seabm7]

I could read this article, but not the other article related to this case. It seems Courier Mail allows only one free article.

 

[Orm Irian]

ETA: I think it's paywalled—this link might work.

bit.ly/2YQQapF

It did for me - thanks!

Of course the article doesn't bother with clarity in the opening paragraph, but it does specify later on that this is regarding senior competition only, and if it goes through, will not happen in time to affect the 2022 Winter Olympics, but will kick in at the start of the following quadrennial.

It's basically the Dutch proposal from the last congress, revived to argue for the protection of minor skaters' mental health and wellbeing. I'm glad to hear it and I hope it goes through.

 

[Colonel Green]

Contrary to the headline all the article seems to say is that the next ISU Council will have another debate about the Dutch proposal.

The debate about the senior age limit relative to jumping is sure to continue, but the relevance of the age limit to Ekaterina’s case seems quite forced. The junior international circuit still exists and there’s still every incentive for athletes to find the best possible partnership; and even more obviously, Ekaterina would still have been eligible for the 2018 Olympics under this revised age limit.

 

[Wyliefan]

I wondered about that too. Out of all the problems poor Katia had, skating for Australia didn't seem all that high on the list.

 

[starrynight]

It's basically the Dutch proposal from the last congress, revived to argue for the protection of minor skaters' mental health and wellbeing. I'm glad to hear it and I hope it goes through.

I agree with this. Skating is unusual in that it has 15 year olds operating at the peak level of international adult elite when they are just years below the age of majority.

 

[Colonel Green]

I wondered about that too. Out of all the problems poor Katia had, skating for Australia didn't seem all that high on the list.

It sounds like moving away from home in an emotionally trying time (as happened at various points) didn’t help her, by any means, and I’d be 100% behind people saying that support systems need to be more on guard for stuff like that.

But I don’t see how raising the age limit would have altered her situation in any way.

Not to mention that there’s an enormous amount of moving involved in elite figure skating (and most sports in general), most of which has nothing to do with switching what country you represent. The biggest driver of long moves is elite training centres.

 

[clairecloutier]

The article states, in regard to possible new age limit changes:

“Besides a possible ISU Council proposal to be put on the agenda of the 2021 Congress, some ISU member federations have also signalled their intention to do so. Consequently, there will most likely be a debate on the issue during the 2021 Congress.”

So this is more than just a revisit of the original Dutch proposal, which was put together very quickly before the last Congress. We can assume new proposals will probably be crafted more carefully, with input from different stakeholders. Also, there will be time to lobby for and debate the proposals prior to the Congress, which wasn't the case at the last Congress.

I think these proposals are being spurred not only by Alexandrovskaya's case, but also by the many other abuse cases that have come to light over the past couple years and that have clearly shown how vulnerable younger athletes are to the power imbalances and pressures of the sport. Although no age minimum will prevent all abuses, a 2-year increase in the minimum age could make a real difference in some athletes' ability to handle the pressures of the sport, as well as make a real difference in how hard they are pushed by coaches, et al, at very young ages.

I would 100% support this change.

 

[Vagabond]

I wondered about that too. Out of all the problems poor Katia had, skating for Australia didn't seem all that high on the list.

What does everyone think Alexandrovskaya's career would have been like if she had not been allowed to change federations until she was seventeen?

Obviously, the new proposal would not have prevented her from doing so, but it is still a question worth pondering.

Bear in mind that a rule change would not have cured her of epilepsy.

 

[Coco]

Hmmm...so many problems and it's hard to solve them all with one change.

Knowing an athlete might transfer to another country could motivate or constrain a coach to treat the athlete better so they don't leave.

Now that athletes have no choice about which country to represent, they are even more at the mercy of whatever country they happen to be born into.

 

[starrynight]

What does everyone think Alexandrovskaya's career would have been like if she had not been allowed to change federations until she was seventeen?

Obviously, the new proposal would not have prevented her from doing so, but it is still a question worth pondering.

It's difficult to say. Unfortunately due to finances, this wasn't a situation where her mother could move with her to Australia for the periods she trained there (although I understand that a lot of training did happen in Moscow). This isn't a one size fits all approach - different athletes have different circumstances.

a 2-year increase in the minimum age could make a real difference in some athletes' ability to handle the pressures of the sport, as well as make a real difference in how hard they are pushed by coaches, et al, at very young ages.

All the media fuss about coaching changes of 16 year olds is a good illustration, I think, of the pressures and spotlight that elite sports puts on them at a young age.

 

[attyfan]

What does everyone think Alexandrovskaya's career would have been like if she had not been allowed to change federations until she was seventeen?

Obviously, the new proposal would not have prevented her from doing so, but it is still a question worth pondering.

Bear in mind that a rule change would not have cured her of epilepsy.

A rule change would not have cured the epilepsy, but more stability (created by not allowing her to move) might have allowed her to see all the things she could do even with epilepsy -- and may have allowed her to contact a support system that would show her what she might be able to do, even if she couldn't compete any more.

I know that epilepsy is not necessarily really disabling (unless it is really severe, it will interfere with specified activities, such as driving only) because I spent 40 years on anti-convulsants for epilepsy -- and I was on anti-convulsants when I went to college, married, went to law school, and started practicing. Katia's death disturbs me a great deal, because she didn't have the kind of support system that I did that would have allowed her a life outside of competition.

 

[Lemonade20]

Raising the age might help, but it’s only one factor. Having a strong support system should be priority #1. Younger skaters are very vulnerable, and we need to do better at protecting and supporting them. I would rather see them stay somewhat closer to home instead of going overseas or skating under a different flag. It’s already a lot of pressure skating and this is such a sad story. Too many things went wrong.

 

[starrynight]

I think this is also a situation that looks different in hindsight. I'm sure at the time, Katia's family and support thought that it would be a good opportunity for her - or I'm sure they would not have made the choice. It was looking like a fairy tale (on the surface) for a while there.

 

[LarrySK8]

I agree fully with the proposal, and actually would make it 18. Fully separate Junior v Seniors to "legal adults of 18" and below.

"Ability" at a young age should be considered peripherally only. FOr example - only go to Senior Worlds if you won World Juniors. Only exception is inviting the world junior champion.

 

[Colonel Green]

I would rather see them stay somewhat closer to home instead of going overseas or skating under a different flag.

Unless you happen to be born near a major training centre it’s very often not feasible to stay close to home.

 

[rfisher]

What does everyone think Alexandrovskaya's career would have been like if she had not been allowed to change federations until she was seventeen?

Obviously, the new proposal would not have prevented her from doing so, but it is still a question worth pondering.

Bear in mind that a rule change would not have cured her of epilepsy.

She wouldn't have had one at all. There was a reason Mozer recommended her to skate for Australia. She didn't have a partner in Russia and given the other skaters at the time, would have gone nowhere.

 

[starrynight]

But a little bit off topic, it does make me feel sorry for the skaters who are stuck in training countries at the moment (for example all the foreign ice dancers in Montreal) who can't go home or see their families. It must be very difficult for them.

 

[MacMadame]

I don't see how changing the age one can skate at the Senior level will have any impact at all on whether or not one changes countries to skate for or on whether or not one leaves home to train.

Skaters train in other countries without switching what country they skate for and do it all the time. Skaters also leave home to train in centers within their own countries all the time. Skaters also switch countries without moving at all. And, finally, skaters do all this at all ages regardless of the level that they compete at.

 

[gkelly]

I don't see how changing the age one can skate at the Senior level will have any impact at all on whether or not one changes countries to skate for or on whether or not one leaves home to train.

It might be possible to change the ISU eligibility rules for international competition to require that junior and lower level skaters be citizens or permanent residents of the country that they represent.

However, there's not much the ISU can do about where they choose to train.

 

[Frau Muller]

GOOD. Best news from the ISU in a long time.

 

[starrynight]

I don't see how changing the age one can skate at the Senior level will have any impact at all on whether or not one changes countries to skate for or on whether or not one leaves home to train.

Skaters train in other countries without switching what country they skate for and do it all the time. Skaters also leave home to train in centers within their own countries all the time. Skaters also switch countries without moving at all. And, finally, skaters do all this at all ages regardless of the level that they compete at.

That's correct. Every now and then, there's always a fuss about a skater who represents a country she/he has barely ever visited (or even attended nationals at) and the local skaters from that country get upset.

This really only relates to pairs and dance in respect of country changes. And it's only relevant if one skater moves country and also moves country without a support system.

But plenty of skaters move away for training unrelated to country changes. Tuktamysheva used to have to get on the train alone to St Petersburg and stay in accommodation, Zagitova moved away to live (I think) in grandmother's living room in Moscow, Virtue/Moir moved alone from Canada to the USA to stay with billets, the list just goes on and on.

 

[Immortelle]

Of course the article doesn't bother with clarity in the opening paragraph

Of course not, why would you want that from a Murdoch rag when the journalism is so top-notch??
Seriously though, the proposal is overdue and like others I’d want to see more safeguards in place for the younger skaters. Some prep program for retirement would be useful too.

 

[FSWer]

Trading? Why? Are they switching young ones for adult?

 

[MacMadame]

It might be possible to change the ISU eligibility rules for international competition to require that junior and lower level skaters be citizens or permanent residents of the country that they represent.

Places that try to build their program by importing skaters will make sure they get permanent residency ASAP.

I think rather than limiting where skaters can train or represent we should put safeguards in place to make sure younger skaters have a good experience. Also, NGB can have rules about how young a skater can be and live away from home without parents so that we don't have 10-year-olds moving across the country without their parents. But at some point, these are individual decisions that should be made by families not the ISU or NGB.

 

[Frau Muller]

I’d like to know if money passes hands between intermediaries who may “wheel and deal” to bring together Pairs or dance couples from different countries, with the end result being transporting one of them to another country? Human trafficking per se isn’t necessarily about age. S/he who is trafficked might even feel that s/he is happy with the situation (income, move to America or other well-off economy, clothing, etc). Just playing “devil’s advocate “ here.

 

[misskarne]

Raising the Senior age would have made next to no difference for Katia and Harley. She was already sixteen-turning-seventeen during their first international season as Juniors, and the only Senior competitions they did that season were one Challenger event, 4CC and Senior Worlds.

She was seventeen before July 1 2017 and thus even under this proposal would have been Senior for the Olympic year. In fact, there would have probably been more pressure, as they would not have competed at Senior Worlds and therefore would not have had their points for winning Juniors wiped, so Australia would have made the team event over Israel (and why are we only talking about Katia, who was intended to be Harley's long-term partner, and not Krasnopolski and his literal disposable partners?).

This feels icky to me, like they are using Katia's tragedy to ram through their proposal which we all know was just aimed at trying to stop the Russian girls.

 

[Colonel Green]

I’d like to know if money passes hands between intermediaries who may “wheel and deal” to bring together Pairs or dance couples from different countries, with the end result being transporting one of them to another country? Human trafficking per se isn’t necessarily about age. S/he who is trafficked might even feel that s/he is happy with the situation (income, move to America or other well-off economy, clothing, etc). Just playing “devil’s advocate “ here.

With all due respect to Lord Coe, calling this akin to "human trafficking" is rather absurd.

But as to the general question, partnerships between people from different countries are arranged in much the same way as partnerships between people of the same country, other than the added steps of (once a pair has been matched) securing a release from one of their respective federations (which may require money depending on what the releasing fed feels it's owed for any expenditures previously made). Coaches and the skaters themselves handle it, generally speaking; the coaches obviously stand to make money if they end up coaching the new pair.

 

[Vagabond]

With all due respect to Lord Coe, calling this akin to "human trafficking" is rather absurd.

You do know that Lord Coe was talking about forcing young athletes to move to and compete for foreign countries where they had no family or other existing connections, don't you?