College administration bribery scandal

Ugh this story. But yeah not that surprised except by the blatant behaviour.

Sucks cause I really like Felicity Huffman and I have a few peers that work on Lori’s show shot in Canada. She’s the lead, so I’m guessing this might be an issue.
 
Debbie S said:
Re the current scandal....what I find most unbelievable is that coaches were accepting students as athletes who never played on the team and nobody seemed to notice. There should be some sort of verification, not just taking a coach at their word, if the athletic ability is the reason for the kid's acceptance.
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The parents brazenly forging records of sports achievements is everyone-gets-a-trophy gone wild. Photoshopped pictures of their kids as champions - no training needed. A sad day all around for sports.
 
el henry said:
The one thing I would say was that a million gazillion years ago you could, and did, flunk out.
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Not sure how long ago the "million gazillion years" were, but there are a lot of academic support systems available today, plus many colleges allow students to retake a course they fail, and only the retake/higher grade shows up on the transcript (the first attempt doesn't appear). Many schools also allow students to drop a course late in the semester (sometimes up until the last day of classes) - there may be a notation that the course was dropped but no grade ever shows up b/c the course wasn't completed. And students can take courses (up to a certain amount) pass/fail, so a low grade won't show up on their transcript and affect their GPA.

If students leave for whatever reason, there are consequences for the school's finances, plus they are required to report all enrollment and graduation data to the U.S. Dept of Ed, so a higher than average attrition rate (due to academic or any other reason) doesn't look good. So there are incentives for professors and administrators to do what they can to help students pass and graduate.
 
Debbie S said:
Not sure how long ago the "million gazillion years" were, but there are a lot of academic support systems available today, plus many colleges allow students to retake a course they fail, and only the retake/higher grade shows up on the transcript (the first attempt doesn't appear). Many schools also allow students to drop a course late in the semester (sometimes up until the last day of classes) - there may be a notation that the course was dropped but no grade ever shows up b/c the course wasn't completed. And students can take courses (up to a certain amount) pass/fail, so a low grade won't show up on their transcript and affect their GPA.
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Pass/Fail classes were only rarely available to me (and aren't common at a lot of colleges even now, I believe), but the rest was all available to me when I was in college, so basically from 1981 to 1993 (I was a slow learner). I know this because I withdrew from a LOT of classes in the early years and I still have my faded old original transcript. It shows any grade that I replaced with a class I took over--the original grade is crossed out but readable and the new one sticks off to the side like a sore thumb. Everyone can see I got some Fs and Ds the first time around. I could withdraw until two weeks before the end of the term at every school I attended.

And that is exactly how it goes where I teach, too.

There are a lot more support services, I will say that, but there are also a lot more students in college who need support services these days, as a lot more students for whom college was not an option are now enrolled. And I am not just referring to students who didn't get good grades in high school (I was one of them), but also to students with disabilities of varying kinds and life challenges that would have kept them out of school in my day. I still see a lot of kids fall between the cracks.

I always had at least a week to drop a class without any record, but my students get 48 hours.

There are a lot of variations between institutions, of course.
 
I had a graduate level anthropology class with Don Tyson's daughter who for some reason decided she wanted to be a graduate student in anthropology (it didn't last long). None of us had any illusions that the graduate school welcomed her with open arms along with the new poultry science building. I have fond memories of her wearing a mink coat to class and wondering why the rest of the grad students who were living on ramen noodles weren't friendly in spite of recommendations from the department chair that we do so. I liked her and told her to leave the mink at home. She was hardly the first graduate student who got into a program because of funds. But, she didn't cheat on exams and she actually made it through the class with a grade of B. And, promptly dropped out to do other more fun things. It's not the legacy student or the fact funds were exchanged, but that parents cheated. And, the student claiming they didn't know must be really stupid if they didn't know they didn't actually take that SAT exam. This is the problem. Bribes, cheating and falsifying records, not the fact mommy and daddy had money. Carla Tyson was not a serious student, but she at least attempted the work for the time she was in school. She was stupid regarding the mink coat.
 
rfisher said:
This is the problem. Bribes, cheating and falsifying records, not the fact mommy and daddy had money.
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Legally speaking, I agree. But ethically speaking, what is a new poultry-science building if not a legal bribe?

And while having money doesn't make them do illegal things, it certainly enables them to do illegal and unethical things that lesser mortals can't.

I would hate to be one of the kids. It will be very hard to overcome this.
 
Artistic Skaters said:
The parents brazenly forging records of sports achievements is everyone-gets-a-trophy gone wild. Photoshopped pictures of their kids as champions - no training needed. A sad day all around for sports.
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Maybe if we didn't give athletes a completely different set of admission criteria so that the NCAA can keep its fiction of "student-athlete" alive, this would go away as a problem.
 
Prancer said:
I would hate to be one of the kids. It will be very hard to overcome this.
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I can't imagine (mainly because my parents would have be so embarrassed to help a child who didn't earn it). I mean, now the child is completely embarrassed and subjected to harassment, and may have a parent head to prison (probably not for long, maybe not at all) because they didn't believe in you and your capabilities. Just wow.

Oh, and in the case of Felicity Huffman's and William Macy's daughters, the older one got the help, they apparently think the younger one will be fine and didn't do it for her. So there's a big bill for family counseling coming.
 
Prancer said:
There are a lot of variations between institutions, of course.
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Yes. I do know that a college student (now graduate) at my skating club was allowed to retake classes for a higher grade - in her case, she hadn't failed the classes in question but did not achieve the grade in them that was required by her major. It was the higher grade that was calculated in her GPA. This was 5 years ago, at a state university...I assume every school in our state's system has the same policy. My college didn't (and still doesn't) allow that, not sure the Ivies do, but I just checked my college's current grading policies and the rules for pass/fail classes are pretty much the same now as they were when I was there in the early 90s - students have up to 4 weeks to decide to take the course pass/fail (I think when I was there it was 6 weeks) and students can still drop courses until the end of classes and just get a notation on their transcript. (I think they still have about 10 days to drop, or add, a course w/o any evidence.) And they can take the class again. (I suspect if a student fails a required course for their major, they are allowed to retake, my guess is there is a petition process and it usually gets approved.) Students can also request incompletes and finish the work or take the final exam by the start of the following semester and then the "I" gets removed and their grade is recorded.

My point is that there are many systems in place to help students achieve a minimum GPA and graduate, whether they are "development admits", athletes, or anyone. Most "development admits" went to top public schools or private schools and are usually well-prepared for college, and as long as they are willing to work hard, they'll be fine. OTOH, students like Lori Loughlin's daughter, who posted on YouTube that she only was interested in parties and football games, will have a rougher time. I assume that if a professor wants to fail a student, they have to provide some sort of justification to those in authority. Not showing up to class or doing the work would probably meet the standard.
 
Prancer said:
Legally speaking, I agree. But ethically speaking, what is a new poultry-science building if not a legal bribe?

And while having money doesn't make them do illegal things, it certainly enables them to do illegal and unethical things that lesser mortals can't.

I would hate to be one of the kids. It will be very hard to overcome this.
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I don't know how much the kids will be impacted. It was well known that Trump's father manipulated a lot of things and Trump has done the same for his kids and it led him to the WH. Sadly, unethical behavior doesn't have much consequences.
 
I actually kinda feel for Olivia Jade. She didn’t even want to go to college she wanted to focus on her blogging stuff. She was open about it and seemed to have business.

This could hurt her business. Now if she knew about it but still young. Should be able to say no but if she didn’t. Her parents may have hurt her options.

They could have let the girl blog and do her showbiz stuff in peace.

This being said wrong parents can donate buildings.

Apparently the second of Felicity’s daughters is academically driven. How horrible they thought of someone taking the test for her.
 
rfisher said:
And, the student claiming they didn't know must be really stupid if they didn't know they didn't actually take that SAT exam.
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I assume most of them did take it, but didn't do especially well. The parents don't go the route of cheating until after that happens.
 
becca said:
I actually kinda feel for Olivia Jade. She didn’t even want to go to college she wanted to focus on her blogging stuff. She was open about it and seemed to have business.
This could hurt her business.
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People who follow social media celebrities like that are...mighty forgiving about their idols. She'll probably swing it into even bigger business.
 
skatfan said:
I can't imagine (mainly because my parents would have be so embarrassed to help a child who didn't earn it). I mean, now the child is completely embarrassed and subjected to harassment, and may have a parent head to prison (probably not for long, maybe not at all) because they didn't believe in you and your capabilities. Just wow.

Oh, and in the case of Felicity Huffman's and William Macy's daughters, the older one got the help, they apparently think the younger one will be fine and didn't do it for her. So there's a big bill for family counseling coming.
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Yep, that is a whole lot to come to terms with, on top of the fact that now everyone in your class knows how you got in and so will your future employers. Some won't care; some will, even if you excel in your classes anyway.

Also, the kids had to participate in the fake disability thing if the parents took that option, so their parents basically taught them that cheating is okay.

Debbie S said:
Yes. I do know that a college student (now graduate) at my skating club was allowed to retake classes for a higher grade - in her case, she hadn't failed the classes in question but did not achieve the grade in them that was required by her major. It was the higher grade that was calculated in her GPA.
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Yes, that is how it worked for me all my undergrad years. All of my Fs and Ds were still sort-of visible on my transcript but did not count in my GPA if I retook the class and replaced the grade within a year.

Debbie S said:
the rules for pass/fail classes are pretty much the same now as they were when I was there in the early 90s - students have up to 4 weeks to decide to take the course pass/fail (I think when I was there it was 6 weeks) and students can still drop courses until the end of classes and just get a notation on their transcript. (I think they still have about 10 days to drop, or add, a course w/o any evidence.) And they can take the class again. (I suspect if a student fails a required course for their major, they are allowed to retake, my guess is there is a petition process and it usually gets approved.) Students can also request incompletes and finish the work or take the final exam by the start of the following semester and then the "I" gets removed and their grade is recorded.
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I never had an elective pass/fail option; some classes were pass/fail (very few) and everyone took them that way, and everything else had to be taken for a regular grade. That's how it is where I teach, too. Even exercise classes are taken for a grade unless you take special cash-only sections, an option that has been available for a couple of years now.

Otherwise, that is all how things worked in my undergrad years, except that an Incomplete contract didn't expire until 30 days after the first day of the next term. I've taught in various capacities at five institutions (three public, two private) now and all of them had the same Incomplete policy, starting back when I first started teaching in 1991.

So....none of this sounds much different to me, but again--institutions vary.

Debbie S said:
I assume that if a professor wants to fail a student, they have to provide some sort of justification to those in authority. Not showing up to class or doing the work would probably meet the standard.
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I had to do that at one time, but it was such an onerous process for all concerned (and no one was happy with it, including the people who demanded that we do it) that we reverted to the old way--if students don't like their grades, they can file grievances.

I will say that IM very limited E and from anecdotes I hear, private universities are much more inclined to help students and get them through no matter what than public universities are, especially small-ish private universities with funding problems. You pretty much have to quit to fail.

wickedwitch said:
I assume most of them did take it, but didn't do especially well. The parents don't go the route of cheating until after that happens.
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From what I have read, some of them took the SAT and then had their answers changed or the test substituted by the cheating test proctors after the tests were submitted.
 
It’s really awful to taking the place of athletes. You have kids who worked years to get good enough to play at college level along with decent grades.
 
I don’t know, maybe it’s a younger generation thing.. or maybe not, but I think this is common sense for a lot of people. I’m not saying it’s right in any way, but I don’t think it’s a big surprise.
 
Even as an outsider it's not at all a surprise. In fact, looking at the way the American college system is set up, from my perspective the surprise is that it took this long for it to be busted.

I mean, one of my favourite scenes in Legally Blonde is where Elle and Vivian are bonding and Vivian reveals that Warner got wait-listed and "his father had to make a call"! None of this should be surprising.
 
Prancer said:
Legally speaking, I agree. But ethically speaking, what is a new poultry-science building if not a legal bribe?

And while having money doesn't make them do illegal things, it certainly enables them to do illegal and unethical things that lesser mortals can't.

I would hate to be one of the kids. It will be very hard to overcome this.
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For me, the question is, would one be that much more outraged if a team of Kovtun and Tuktamysheva somehow won a medal at worlds in ice dance than Stepanova and Bukin simply winning a 7 way race for a medal?
 
becca said:
It’s really awful to taking the place of athletes. You have kids who worked years to get good enough to play at college level along with decent grades.
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I'm sorry, this make me laugh. Of all the takes on this, feeling bad for athletes whose positions were stolen is the last one I'd have come up with. This points more to how broken the athletic recruitment system is, and brings to question why athletes are considered so valuable that there doesn't need to be any evidence of the student having ever participated in the sport.
 
genevieve said:
I'm sorry, this make me laugh. Of all the takes on this, feeling bad for athletes whose positions were stolen is the last one I'd have come up with. This points more to how broken the athletic recruitment system is, and brings to question why athletes are considered so valuable that there doesn't need to be any evidence of the student having ever participated in the sport.
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Like figure skaters who win some local competition and put that on their college applications as championship figure skater.
 
skatfan said:
Maybe if we didn't give athletes a completely different set of admission criteria so that the NCAA can keep its fiction of "student-athlete" alive, this would go away as a problem.
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This. I’ve been railing for years that the NCAA should be abolished and basketball and football should have minor leagues where players get paid. The sham of providing an education to the big-sport athletes has long been obvious.

My nephew went to Williams partially because he was an excellent cross-country skier and my friend’s son went to Pitt as a swimmer. Both had the grades and scores to get in anyway but scholarship $ at Pitt was helpful and Williams is as hard to get into as the Ivys. I still oppose athletic criteria for admission.
 
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