College administration bribery scandal

[MacMadame]

Eh, she posed for the pictures. She's not three.

Maybe she was told it was a photoshoot for something else? I know some kids had their faces photoshopped onto other people doing athletic stuff.

I cannot imagine what living with a parent who looks at you in terms of how much you are winning must be like.

My kids definitely don't have to worry about that. But maybe they would be in better shape if I had pushed more. It's hard to know.

 

[Prancer]

My kids definitely don't have to worry about that. But maybe they would be in better shape if I had pushed more. It's hard to know.

Totally agree. In some ways, I think I did okay by my kids. In other ways, I think I really messed up. But I'm not at all sure I am assessing myself that well, either.

I have a friend with two kids in transition to adulthood right now--one graduated from high school and is quite adamant that he doesn't want to go to college, but also doesn't know what else he wants to do, and the other is in college but struggling. Friend keeps asking me what I think and I don't know what to say because I found it harder to figure out what to do at this stage than any others.

They're still alive, so there is that.

 

[Judy]

Eh, she posed for the pictures. She's not three. If she didn't know, it's because she didn't want to know. That doesn't mean she really understood it all (I find it doubtful that she did, actually), but I don't think she was unaware that she was being put out there as a rower because that would improve her chances of getting into UCLA.

But this is all definitely parent driven. Most teenagers have no idea what college is and if they are fixated on getting into a particular college, it's almost always because their parents are fixated on that college. Or some college.

What I find interesting about all this is that these kids already have so much; most of them are set for life even if they don't go to college at all. They don't "need" to get into a top college. Yet here they are, going to such lengths to ensure that their already overly advantaged child has even MORE advantages just because they can't not have the most successful kids.

I cannot imagine what living with a parent who looks at you in terms of how much you are winning must be like.

Well having worked at an independent private school in Canada (admin I didn't teach) there is a variety of parents. It's an excellent education and kids have to be prepared to work non-stop and deal with all the stress etc. part of it is status for some, family history and tradition of attending the school, high expectations of success for their child etc. there are also very normal and well balanced parents. I've seen it all. Helicopter moms although pretty sure they are everywhere. I really loved working there although the chaos sometimes drove me insane. I'm not sure I would want to do it again it's an exhausting work environment.

I was blown away when I first heard about the scandal. Who even thinks of that stuff? You are not helping your child by not letting them succeed getting into a school on their own merit.

 

[Prancer]

Well having worked at an independent private school in Canada (admin I didn't teach) there is a variety of parents.

Of course there are. But only one kind of parent is under discussion here.

 

[once_upon]

DWTS has had Bristol Palin and Kate Goesselin. This is right up their alley.

I stopped watching the season with Bristol.

 

[Judy]

Of course there are. But only one kind of parent is under discussion here.

Yup we'll aside from the ones that participated in this scheme .. there are a lot of them out there.

 

[Coco]

It wouldn't surprise me if she did write an application that was then substituted by a "professionally" written application. I mean, you - the parent - know you are lying and cheating. Do you trust your kid to keep that shit under wraps?

 

[overedge]

IIRC at least one of the celebrity kids involved in this had already written the SAT and had a decent mark. But their parent didn't think the mark was "enough" to get the kid admitted, and submitted a fake (higher) mark without the kid knowing.

 

[MacMadame]

It wouldn't surprise me if she did write an application that was then substituted by a "professionally" written application.

Me either.

 

[alexikeguchi]

It wouldn't surprise me if she did write an application that was then substituted by a "professionally" written application.

I doubt this is the case any more, but the essay on my medical school application to Columbia (submitted 1987) had to be hand-written. At the time, I thought this was a quaint anachronism or that they were trying to put together a class of future doctors with legible handwriting, but maybe it was actually a genius method to ferret out ghostwriting.

 

[MacMadame]

I doubt this is the case any more, but the essay on my medical school application to Columbia (submitted 1987) had to be hand-written. At the time, I thought this was a quaint anachronism or that they were trying to put together a class of future doctors with legible handwriting, but maybe it was actually a genius method to ferret out ghostwriting.

Yeah, it's totally not the case. You enter your applications into a web app online these days. No way to handwrite that.

 

[Prancer]

It wouldn't surprise me if she did write an application that was then substituted by a "professionally" written application. I mean, you - the parent - know you are lying and cheating. Do you trust your kid to keep that shit under wraps?

I think it's more a matter of not trusting your kid to be good enough just as your kid is AND thinking that you deserve for your kid to be a star.

Lacy Crawford's book Early Decision is all about this--it's a novel about a woman who coaches students through their application essays. She wants to help the kids find the best colleges for their needs; their parents have other ideas of what is best. Crawford herself was raised by demanding parents around uber-privileged kids from similar families and she actually worked as an application essay coach; you can see it in every line.

Yeah, it's totally not the case. You enter your applications into a web app online these days. No way to handwrite that.

And only one!

 

[Theatregirl1122]

But this is all definitely parent driven. Most teenagers have no idea what college is and if they are fixated on getting into a particular college, it's almost always because their parents are fixated on that college. Or some college.

I’m not sure precisely what you mean by most teenagers have no idea what college is, so I cannot comment on that.

I can say that many of my teenagers do you have a First choice school that they feel Thefirst choice school that they feel very strongly about and, in most cases, the parents have no particular feeling about the school or don’t even particularly want their child to go to the school. There are many kids who are high powered due to parental pressure but also a lot of high powered kids who are high powered purely because it’s what they want.

 

[Prancer]

I’m not sure precisely what you mean by most teenagers have no idea what college is, so I cannot comment on that.

If you've never been to college, you don't know what college is. You have an idea--it's a school, there are movies, you've heard stories--but the actual fact of it is unknown.

It's like getting a new job--you may really want the job and it may turn out to be what you expect, or it may turn out to be something else entirely. There are reasons that a majority of college students drop out in their freshmen years.

There are many kids who are high powered due to parental pressure but also a lot of high powered kids who are high powered purely because it’s what they want.

Yes, I've seen that. However, I've only rarely seen that in isolation. It's generally part of the context of their world.

But I don't teach high school and the high schoolers I do get are all dual credit students--and most of them have incredibly pushy parents, so my sample is undoubtedly skewed.

 

[once_upon]

I knew my oldest son applied to several colleges - the state universities in the surrounding states. I did not know that he applied to Tulane until they awarded him a scholarship. He did it on a "I wonder if I could rather than I really want to go there".

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Yes, I've seen that. However, I've only rarely seen that in isolation. It's generally part of the context of their world.

But I don't teach high school and the high schoolers I do get are all dual credit students--and most of them have incredibly pushy parents, so my sample is undoubtedly skewed.

I think there's a pretty big difference between college being a part of the context of their world and pushy parents. Students can have a family full of college educated relatives and see college as an important life step without having pushy parents. Students can want to go to a school because they have a connection to it without it being because someone pushed them in that direction.

 

[Vagabond]

a majority of college students drop out in their freshmen years.

Can you link to a source that supports this assertion?

I did a little hunting around, and it seems that most college students study for more than a full year.

College Dropout Rates [2024] - US Statistics and Data

How many college dropouts are there? Updated rates for 2024. The average retention rate in American higher education institutions is 71%.

www.thinkimpact.com

Only 41% of college students graduate from four-year institutions.
College dropout rates average at 40% each academic year for undergraduate students....
Three (3) in every ten (10) students drop out after or within the first year in college.

 

[Artistic Skaters]

One of the things that I find irritating is the vast differences between Olivia Jade and Suni Lee yet they will be considered equal peers in the DWTS competition. One is a young woman (not affluent) who actually worked hard most of her life for a masterful achievement now has opportunities to reap rewards for all that hard work, including a college education based on her actual not fabricated efforts. The other is an affluent young woman who cheated her way into college and announced to all how she was just there for the partying and didn't really want to study anything. Maybe the poster child of entitlement got the invite because of connections or something, but she sure didn't earn her way into such an opportunity like Lee or Siwa. I realize this is what DWTS does and it's reality TV, but to me it diminishes what would be an interesting program about enjoyment of dance to normalize the exploits of notorious people for dramatic highlights and/or ratings. It's not like there aren't other good options.

 

[Prancer]

Students can have a family full of college educated relatives and see college as an important life step without having pushy parents.

Right. You said there are kids who are high-powered because they are, not because their parents are pushy, and I agreed that yes, I had seen that, but rarely in isolation. It occurs within context--which would be a family full of college-educated relatives or a school where everyone is driven to get into selective colleges.

So yes, I am aware that there are kids who are self-motivated, regardless of whether their parents are pushy or not. But that doesn't mean they aren't getting a push from somewhere. How else would they know?

Can you link to a source that supports this assertion?

Probably not . I was thinking dyslexically, that it was 60% who drop out and 40% who graduate, but it's the opposite, more or less. It's first gens who drop out in very high numbers very early on.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Right. You said there are kids who are high-powered because they are, not because their parents are pushy, and I agreed that yes, I had seen that, but rarely in isolation. It occurs within context--which would be a family full of college-educated relatives or a school where everyone is driven to get into selective colleges.

I feel like the line is in constant motion here. You said that students really only have a number 1 choice school if they have pushy parents and I said that I have a lot of students who came up with their first choice school on their own, and now we've worked around to high powered students primarily exist in college-educated families or schools where everyone is driven to get into selective colleges. I don't see how these are the same thing at all. Additionally, teenagers are smart. They are capable of understanding what their families don't have. I teach at a title 1 school, and I certainly teach first gen kids who are very self-driven.

But what we were talking about was having a first choice school. Whether they really understand what college is going to be like, a lot of kids do have one, and it's not necessarily Harvard. Just because they have a first choice that they really care about doesn't mean it's highly selective.

 

[becca]

One of the things that I find irritating is the vast differences between Olivia Jade and Suni Lee yet they will be considered equal peers in the DWTS competition. One is a young woman (not affluent) who actually worked hard most of her life for a masterful achievement now has opportunities to reap rewards for all that hard work, including a college education based on her actual not fabricated efforts. The other is an affluent young woman who cheated her way into college and announced to all how she was just there for the partying and didn't really want to study anything. Maybe the poster child of entitlement got the invite because of connections or something, but she sure didn't earn her way into such an opportunity like Lee or Siwa. I realize this is what DWTS does and it's reality TV, but to me it diminishes what would be an interesting program about enjoyment of dance to normalize the exploits of notorious people for dramatic highlights and/or ratings. It's not like there aren't other good options.

I don’t think this is fully fair. I mean yes Suni Lee is amazing but let’s be real she also hit the genetic lottery. Most people no matter how hard they work are never going to be that good at gymnastics

She also got lucky because they found her talent early on and it was able to be nurtered.

I have a sibling who turned out to be extremely talented in track but no one ever found out about it till his senior year of High school.

He basically started track and three months later was making state. But he never was able to become as good at track as he truly could have been if his talent had been discovered earlier. But there were people who ran track for years suddenly finding themselves losing to my brother.

This is not in anyway to take away Suni’s accomplishments she worked hard very hard but she also had her own blessings.

Say what you will about Olivia Jade but she did at least do some work as influencer she could have just partied and lived of her parents money but she did find some ways to bring funds for herself. If she was a talented athlete her parents would have probably found out.

People make mistakes I am not sure she was fully innocent but she was also 17? When it started and it’s really clear it was the adults in her life who pushed and prompted her. It doesn’t sound like it was Olivia Jades idea at all she would have been happy to not go or to a lesser school. She must have been under tremendous pressure

 

[MsZem]

One of the things that I find irritating is the vast differences between Olivia Jade and Suni Lee yet they will be considered equal peers in the DWTS competition.

At least Olivia Jade accomplished something on her own, even though it's frivolous. DWTS has regularly had contestants from the various Real Housewives shows.

 

[Lemonade20]

Just once, I'd love to see them feature amazing but unknown people who have done something amazing. From giving back to their community to raising adopted/foster children to making sacrifices for their family.

 

[MsZem]

Just once, I'd love to see them feature amazing but unknown people who have done something amazing. From giving back to their community to raising adopted/foster children to making sacrifices for their family.

This is the closest you'll probably get:

Alek Skarlatos Joins the Cast of Dancing with the Stars Season 21 | Dancing with the Stars

Alek Skarlatos joins the cast of "Dancing with the Stars" Season 21.

abc.com

(let's not discuss his political views)

I'm all for inviting people who are making a difference in their communities, but suspect that such people have better things to do with their time...

 

[Judy]

Right. You said there are kids who are high-powered because they are, not because their parents are pushy, and I agreed that yes, I had seen that, but rarely in isolation. It occurs within context--which would be a family full of college-educated relatives or a school where everyone is driven to get into selective colleges.

So yes, I am aware that there are kids who are self-motivated, regardless of whether their parents are pushy or not. But that doesn't mean they aren't getting a push from somewhere. How else would they know?

Probably not . I was thinking dyslexically, that it was 60% who drop out and 40% who graduate, but it's the opposite, more or less. It's first gens who drop out in very high numbers very early on.

I don't Know about the U.S. but generally there are a ton of kids that change courses after a first year. I am not sure about drop outs but depending where you live in Canada an education is important vs when I went to school. Not every child is great at school but there are trades and other options with our colleges that can lead more quickly to jobs vs a university degree.

 

[Coco]

Deleted

 

[becca]

At least Olivia Jade accomplished something on her own, even though it's frivolous. DWTS has regularly had contestants from the various Real Housewives shows.

I am not sure why being an influencer is frivolous I mean she is basically advertising stuff right? Why is it anymore frivolous than acting? Some of the tutorials aren’t a bad thing. Learning to put on makeup properly can help others tremendously with self confidence etc.

I mean she certainly wasn’t hurting anyone as an influencer. Her parents pushing her to take someone else’s well earned scholarship was.

I have not watched any of her videos but I think most blame really should go to parents not her I mean she was a vulnerable kid.

And I also don’t support trying kids as adults either.

Please note I wasn’t criticizing Suni Lee I was merely saying 99.9 percent of us no matter how hard we try will never be that good at gymnastics so comparing the two is unfair IMO

 

[kwanfan1818]

You don't have to be from a privileged family to be valued or not based on how much you "win", and often parents' definition of "win" is extremely limited.

 

[Judy]

You don't have to be from a privileged family to be valued or not based on how much you "win", and often parents' definition of "win" is extremely limited.

Yes there are a lot of parenting styles.

 

[Judy]

Aside from parents and kids I found it more the adults that took bribes to be involved in this. I guess I shouldn't but I am.