Can't Help Falling In Love ... with Hubbell & Donohue (fan thread #2)

Bigbird said:
Why did they make so many changes to the RD before such an important competition? The RD looked rough or flat in several places and that also contributed to their loss at this competition.
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Because Halina Gordon-Poltorak told them to after Italy.
 
aka_gerbil said:
I think skate order could have played a role with h/d have to go fairly early.

Someone broke down and compared the key points. Very interesting.


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To be honest, I've been noticing things like this even outside the H/D v. C/B discussion since at least the Davis/White v. Virtue/Moir days and how the scores don't really take these things into account. I get that for levels, it's all about completing the step and turns cleanly. But I think GOE was supposed to reflect these sorts of differences but they rarely do.
 
bcash said:
The thing is the 2.5-Point gap in the RD was not warranted given the noticeable difference in edge quality and overall execution of elements. I thought their starting order hurt them. No idea why they had to skate in the middle of the order essentially.
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I have always said that skate order matters, whether it is 6.0 or IJS. As the reigning US champions they should have skated last.
 
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angi said:
More often than not I think H/D are the superior team in the world and should defeat P/C. Their speed, power, and edge quality are the best in the world imo and if they had the support of USFS and the judging was impartial, this quad should have been a very close P/C vs. H/D rivalry.
People love to say that H/D are prone to mistakes and they are, but the difference is that they are a team that is penalized for their mistakes much harsher than others, and they are penalized for much longer than one competition. Every time they skate they skate as the underdogs that need to prove their worth almost from scratch. It's so exhausting that I have no idea how they withstand it.
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This is why I'm at peace with them retiring. Enough of dealing with this BS.
 
VGThuy said:
To be honest, I've been noticing things like this even outside the H/D v. C/B discussion since at least the Davis/White v. Virtue/Moir days and how the scores don't really take these things into account.
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I realize that I shouldn't respond to this, but it's just not quite the same. Even if D/W were sometimes faster than V/M, the way how they achieved that speed made it a bit questionable. Not to mention that V/M tended to have better edges and overall ice coverage. And even then the difference in speed was not quite as noticeable as with H/D and C/B.
 
lauravvv said:
I realize that I shouldn't respond to this, but it's just not quite the same. Even if D/W were sometimes faster than V/M, the way how they achieved that speed made it a bit questionable. Not to mention that V/M tended to have better edges and overall ice coverage. And even then the difference in speed was not quite as noticeable as with H/D and C/B.
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We're actually on the same side. I was mainly talking by Sochi and comparing D/W's GOEs with V/M's GOEs when it was clear to me that even if both technically received level 4s, one team was doing it with more control and finesse and better body positioning than the other.
 
Over the years, Madison and Zach have given us beautiful programs and memorable moments. I know that out of the current crop of US Ice Dancers, it is their programs that I will watch endlessly on youtube. Wishing them a safe and wonderful Olympics (and I really, really, hope that experiene includes the Team event!).
 
Bigbird said:
So why didn't S/K change their RD? There is no use of slides, touching the ice etc. I guess they are all good and the rules don't really apply to them.
Too annoyed to even waste my breath.
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Because the rule doesn't say that slides and touching the ice must be used, it says that those elements may be used. Even if some judges would like to see those elements in everyone's RD steps, in the end it's the skaters and their coaches choice whether to use them or not.
 
lauravvv said:
Because the rule doesn't say that slides and touching the ice must be used, it says that those elements may be used. Even if some judges would like to see those elements in everyone's RD steps, in the end it's the skaters and their coaches choice whether to use them or not.
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Precisely. I thought it was better just the way it was. It's like they lack confidence in their own abilities and it gets me so annoyed. They've tinkered unsuccessfully with a number of their RDs. Don't they see the trend?
 
Bigbird said:
Precisely. I thought it was better just the way it was. It's like they lack confidence in their own abilities and it gets me so annoyed. They've tinkered unsuccessfully with a number of their RDs. Don't they see the trend?
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I guess because it worked really well for them once (e.g. 2017 Worlds SD).
 
I’d be surprised if they ended up splitting dance in the team event. Ladies and Pairs are where Team USA are the weakest, especially the Ladies. I don’t trust any one of those girls to successfully handle both the short and the long, so I’d want to split that one for sure. And we can’t assume that Nathan will be willing to carry the men’s portion on his own, so they might have to split that one.

In my opinion, the best strategy is to split the Ladies using Bell and Chen and split the Men‘s using Nathan and Jason. For Pair’s, I‘d let Cain-Gribble/Leduc do both portions. I’m not sure how well Frazier would hold up considering he’s still recovering from the virus. As for Dance, either H/D or C/B are capable of handling both portions and scoring well, so I wouldn’t split that one. The only problem for me with Dance is that I’m afraid C/B would get the nod over H/D as they are the national champions, and my preference is H/D.
 
Laura4 said:
I’d be surprised if they ended up splitting dance in the team event. Ladies and Pairs are where Team USA are the weakest, especially the Ladies. I don’t trust any one of those girls to successfully handle both the short and the long, so I’d want to split that one for sure. And we can’t assume that Nathan will be willing to carry the men’s portion on his own, so they might have to split that one.

In my opinion, the best strategy is to split the Ladies using Bell and Chen and split the Men‘s using Nathan and Jason. For Pair’s, I‘d let Cain-Gribble/Leduc do both portions. I’m not sure how well Frazier would hold up considering he’s still recovering from the *****. As for Dance, either H/D or C/B are capable of handling both portions and scoring well, so I wouldn’t split that one. The only problem for me with Dance is that I’m afraid C/B would get the nod over H/D as they are the national champions, and my preference is H/D.
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H/D were national champions going into PyeongChang and the Shibutanis did both Team Event portions. I believe it's the body of work during the quad that determines number one status. 3 World medals, 3 US titles, 3 Davis/White Excellence Awards all within the last 4 years. This season in head to head competition H/D beat C/B at Skate America and won the FD at Nationals. Whether USFS decides to split Dance or not, H/D should participate.
 
The US nationals ice dance event was the event I was most excited to see this weekend, and of course that’s the one my DVR messed up. thank goodness for fan cams.
is there any way someone in Canada can get access to the NBC videos? right now they’re geoblocked for me. i found the NBC version of HD on another site but couldn’t find the videos of the other teams. Thank you in advance if anyone can help me 🙂
 
I listened to the Flutzes and Waxels podcast on the US Nationals for Ice Dance yesterday and was surprised by their commentary. They didn't think that H/D had been lowballed ... Take a listen, I'd been interested to know what you think.
 
Peepsquick said:
I listened to the Flutzes and Waxels podcast on the US Nationals for Ice Dance yesterday and was surprised by their commentary. They didn't think that H/D had been lowballed ... Take a listen, I'd been interested to know what you think.
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I rarely agree with their ice dance commentary, they have very specific biases that affect the quality of their commentary imo.
 
I have never listened to F&W's podcasts, but I have sometimes noticed the same type of issue that @angi mentions with their live-tweeting. Sort of a very specific, angled point of view at times. Which doesn't mean they don't have some worthwhile or interesting things to say. But, it's just more opinion-based, less neutral.
 
clairecloutier said:
I have never listened to F&W's podcasts, but I have sometimes noticed the same type of issue that @angi mentions with their live-tweeting. Sort of a very specific, angled point of view at times. Which doesn't mean they don't have some worthwhile or interesting things to say. But, it's just more opinion-based, less neutral.
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The biggest "tragedy" about it is that they actually have strong technical knowledge that is often missing from skating coverage. However every time I listen I notice that they can't help their own bias about ice dance in particular and that their criticism of certain teams comes from their bias and not from what they actually put on the ice.
 
Bournekraatzfan said:
The US nationals ice dance event was the event I was most excited to see this weekend, and of course that’s the one my DVR messed up. thank goodness for fan cams.
is there any way someone in Canada can get access to the NBC videos? right now they’re geoblocked for me. i found the NBC version of HD on another site but couldn’t find the videos of the other teams. Thank you in advance if anyone can help me 🙂
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If you search on google there is website/forum that has videos from Nationals available to download. Also has skating videos from other countries and competitions. It'sa great site.
 
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