Are we spending enough time to mentally prepare our athletes?

[brennele]

I pretty much missed the 2014 Olympics due to very hectic and full work schedule. I picked up bits and pieces of it here and there from watching clips online on YouTube. Work pretty much got all consuming right after the 2010 Olympics so your time frame sounds just about right - there was virtually no time for TV watching. Now that you mention it, it HAS been just about 7-8 years or so since work got super hectic and pushed aside just about everything else. It wasn't all by choice, BTW. Things have eased up considerably now so I hope to get back into it watching more FS. I will look up the video you recommended. Hard to believe it could be better than what I saw in his SP but I will take your word for it. Thanks for the video tip.

 

[snoopy]

Brennele

Read the interview thread about Raf and you will see the discussion about Nathan’s mom.

FWIW I think Nathan got psyched out too. One of the comments along the way noted Nathan’s practices started tanking when Yuzuru got there. If mind exercises would help, great. I don’t know raf’s techniques but I think people will recognize the pressure got to Nathan. Hopefully this means different things will be tried.

 

[brennele]

Snoopy, that was pretty much my whole point - Nathan's issues with this SP were primarily psychological and not physical. Here is an example, I like to tell my patients about how psychological factors affect performance. Let's use the example of a balance beam placed on the floor, say 6 inches off the ground. Many many people could hop about on the beam flawlessly, doing cartwheels and whatever, never missing a step from one end to the other. It would be a piece of cake for them. People could do cartwheels from one end to the other perfectly - no big deal. Now let us take that same beam and suspend it 60 feet off the ground between two buildings - take away all factors of wind velocity and sway. The exact same beam in use only now we are 60 feet off the ground. Everything is exactly the same only now nobody would be willing to do the cartwheels on beam suspended 60 feet off the ground. They would be totally intimidated and who could blame them. Their ability did not change one iota; the beam did not change one bit - nothing but their mind perceptions changed.

It is the same thing here. Nothing changed with Chen's ability; only his mental outlook changed and, now, you are telling me that it all started when Yazuru arrived. Could well be. You might have nailed it. Yazuru IS a formidable figure for sure. Chen now has to get control of his brain; he already has his body under control. Whatever technique works for him is fine but he needs to do some sort of mind discipline practice to get this thing under control. Otherwise, it will be his undoing. I have yet another example. So many people own several dogs as pets. Many own a large (sometimes huge) dog and they also own a little dog - both animals in the same household, interacting with one another. The big dog could kill the little dog with one snap of his jaws yet people often report that the little dog totally dominates the big dog. Dogs are very into this whole alpha dog thing. Physical ability does not matter with these dogs; it only matters what is in the dog's brain. I do believe you nailed it.

 

[Meoima]

Yuzuru’s fan here. He said he mostly read about muscle rehabilitation during the months he couldn’t practice due to injury. Yuzuru gave up video games before the Olympics. So there’s that, tell other skaters to give up video games maybe? Lol just kidding it doesn’t mean much.
Oh the truth is Yuzuru only started jumping 3 weeks before the Olympics because his injury wasn’t healing. He won Olympics with painkillers. And even for now Yuzuru says he doesn’t even know how long it will take for his injury to heal. If there is anything, it’s his mental strength to go against the adversity that brought him to the Olympics.

Ps: I had really a good belly laugh reading this thread honestly.

 

[brennele]

Meoima, Well I am glad we provided you with a source of amusement and laughing - laughter is a good thing in life. The subject matter is not terribly funny, however, because we saw a total meltdown of an otherwise competent athlete. Even though I have newly become a Yuzuru fan, seeing someone else suffer is still painful. I would have preferred that Chen did his best and that Yazuru won the gold anyway, under those circumstances. In any event, like you, I am glad he won the gold, back-to-back with a previous one for the first time in 66 or so years.

Now, maybe it is just me but when I see something go terribly wrong, I like to see what was out of order and how it can be fixed. Pretty much that is what we do in my field. People come to us with medical problems, we find out what is causing their problem and then we try to fix it. With that thought in mind, you can understand why I approach the Chen disaster with a thought to looking to what went wrong and thinking about how it could be fixed. I am very confident in my diagnosis. It was mental/psychological factors and not physical factors which caused the melt down. He got "psyched out" by Yuzuru and that is understandable but it is, also, not good. I am going to go back to my original premise in the OP - athletes need physical training ......AND (!!!!)..... they need mental psychological training. Come to find out that Orser not only provides this kind of training but also he sells it to the public. I found out that he sells CDs which contain his brand of mind training to anyone who wants to buy it. Good for Orser! I am a capitalist at heart. How much of this sort of mental discipline Yazuru got from Orser and how much of it he had naturally, developing it on his own - who can say. I do know that Orser values it and provides it as a part of his package. Whether Yuzuru needed that sort of guidance, who can say. Some people have it naturally. I don't think Chen's coach did provide any such training and Chen (obviously) desperately needed it regardless of whether or not Yazuru did. Maybe Yazuru was a natural in this area of performance success (or maybe Orser taught him about it) but clearly Chen was not. HE needed it.

 

[brennele]

Snoopy, I reread the interview with Chen's coach. Thanks for reminding me to do so. Sounds like this coach knows a whole lot and has much competence but I am not sure he is a good fit for Chen. Sounds like Chen tends to walk all over him at times and put his family's advise ahead of his coach's advise. It also sounds like the coach tolerates more than he should. I think the coach needs to have a firmer hand and not tolerate any such disrespect. If it means losing a client, so be it. That being said, Chen is 18 or 19 so he thinks he knows it all but actually he does not. For that reason, the coach must provide guidance to the extent that he gets everything he needs for success. I think he needed more mental preparation for this whole thing.

 

[Meoima]

Meoima, Well I am glad we provided you with a source of amusement and laughing - laughter is a good thing in life. The subject matter is not terribly funny, however, because we saw a total meltdown of an otherwise competent athlete. Even though I have newly become a Yuzuru fan, seeing someone else suffer is still painful. I would have preferred that Chen did his best and that Yazuru won the gold anyway, under those circumstances. In any event, like you, I am glad he won the gold, back-to-back with a previous one for the first time in 66 or so years.

Now, maybe it is just me but when I see something go terribly wrong, I like to see what was out of order and how it can be fixed. Pretty much that is what we do in my field. People come to us with medical problems, we find out what is causing their problem and then we try to fix it. With that thought in mind, you can understand why I approach the Chen disaster with a thought to looking to what went wrong and thinking about how it could be fixed. I am very confident in my diagnosis. It was mental/psychological factors and not physical factors which caused the melt down. He got "psyched out" by Yuzuru and that is understandable but it is, also, not good. I am going to go back to my original premise in the OP - athletes need physical training ......AND (!!!!)..... they need mental psychological training. Come to find out that Orser not only provides this kind of training but also he sells it to the public. I found out that he sells CDs which contain his brand of mind training to anyone who wants to buy it. Good for Orser! I am a capitalist at heart. How much of this sort of mental discipline Yazuru got from Orser and how much of it he had naturally, developing it on his own - who can say. I do know that Orser values it and provides it as a part of his package. Whether Yuzuru needed that sort of guidance, who can say. Some people have it naturally. I don't think Chen's coach did provide any such training and Chen (obviously) desperately needed it regardless of whether or not Yazuru did. Maybe Yazuru was a natural in this area of performance success (or maybe Orser taught him about it) but clearly Chen was not. HE needed it.

Wel you know Yuzuru has gone through many adversities in his life.
1) His asthma issue that affects his stamina since he was a kid
2) the earthquake 2011 that destroyed his hometown and took away almost 20.000 lives. He was on the ice when that happened. His ice rink was detroyed. He went around 60 ice shows during that summer to get ice time so he could train.
3) the crazy pressure and expectation of his whole nation to win medals and Olympics.
4) and a very long list of injuries which you can read here. https://twitter.com/chiburahakkai/status/959896686238695424

In short, the adversities and hardships you stumble along the road have some hand in the making of you. I believe the current Hanyu has developed his mentality to this point also because he has gone though all these difficulty and harships. Which is some pretty much personal experience. But aren’t all of us are? We are who we are because of our past and what we have been through.

The same for Nathan, he is young, it’s normal to make mistakes. He has gone through a lot but it’s still just the end of a beginning if he wants to believe that way. There’s a new 4 years before the next Olympics. He will have to shape his own way by himself. And it’s pretty much personal.

 

[brennele]

JieJie " I'm a bit disturbed by your war/bayonet analogy. Surely you could have come up with something less frighteningly provocative?"

I inquired as to whether you were a male or a female and you never got back to me. I do hope you are a millennial female because if you are a male or worse a millenniel male and you are "frighteningly disturbed" by the very MENTION of war or bayonets, this country is in big trouble. Guns, war, etc. are an ugly component of life - sad, but true. We have to deal with it head on not pretend it does not exist and not become "frightened" at the mention of such topics. When males in our society have reached the point where they are "frightened" by the MENTION of weapons i.e. an analogy of bayonets and war, I have to shake my head and wonder. PLEASE tell me you are a girl in which case I will breath a huge sigh of relief.

 

[vodkashot]

JieJie " I'm a bit disturbed by your war/bayonet analogy. Surely you could have come up with something less frighteningly provocative?"

I inquired as to whether you were a male or a female and you never got back to me. I do hope you are a millennial female because if you are a male or worse a millenniel male and you are "frighteningly disturbed" by the very MENTION of war or bayonets, this country is in big trouble. Guns, war, etc. are an ugly component of life - sad, but true. We have to deal with it head on not pretend it does not exist and not become "frightened" at the mention of such topics. When males in our society have reached the point where they are "frightened" by the MENTION of weapons i.e. an analogy of bayonets and war, I have to shake my head and wonder. PLEASE tell me you are a girl in which case I will breath a huge sigh of relief.

Not sure what offends me more: the blatant sexism in the above post by OP, or the blatant disregard of facts displayed by OP throughout this entire thread.

 

[brennele]

Meoima,

Great points you make. It helps us to understand why Yuzuru is such a great and admirable performer. Thank you for sharing this information.

 

[brennele]

Vodkashot, Great! Lets talk about sexism. Good topic of conversation. One of my favorites in fact. Suppose you tell us how the comment is sexist and we will take it from there. I am VERY glad you brought it up. One thing I will way is that when we talk about sexism, we need to know the gender of the speaker because it is a valid consideration. I am a female, almost 68 years of age. I would love to discuss this topic so why don't you go ahead and show us how the remarks are sexist. Let's hear about how it is normal behavior for a male to be "frightened" by the mention of bayonets and war. Note we are not talking about a male being disgusted by war and weapons of war. We are not talking about a male who advocates avoiding war and we are not talking about a male who is frightened at the prospect of going to war. Rather we are talking about a male who is "frightened" by the very mention of weapons. No doubt he would be "frightened" by the notion of someone carrying a gun or even, God-forbid, carrying one in his presence. Scarey? Is it appropriate for females to be that way. No, but it is less of a concern. Females are not the one who will have to defend the country if it ever comes under attack. When we raise a group of males in a society who are "afraid" and "frightened" of guns and weapons, I do worry.

 

[Choupette]

In short, the adversities and hardships you stumble along the road have some hand in the making of you. I believe the current Hanyu has developed his mentality to this point also because he has gone though all these difficulty and harships. Which is some pretty much personal experience. But aren’t all of us are? We are who we are because of our past and what we have been through.

Kaetlyn Osmond would agree, I believe:

Figure skater Kaetlyn Osmond brings resiliency to Olympics after injury comeback

But for Osmond, there was more to it:

Figure skating star Kaetlyn Osmond abandons quest for perfection, will settle for excellence
It sounds like semantics. But a skater who has it figured out between the ears will often show it on the ice, especially when it counts most

In her post-performance interview, she was asked about the little mistake she made on the Lutz, and that's precisely what she replied: that she was looking for excellence, not perfection, and that she wasn't going to let that mistake affect the rest of her program like it happened to her before.

For the record, Joannie Rochette and many Canadian athletes also requested a sports psychologist: The mental work behind medals. Prior to 2009 Worlds, people here kept saying she'd never put it together, but starting from the beginning of the 2008-2009 season, she said publicly her goal was to be on the podium at Worlds, and she did it. She was 23 by then. Halliwell was also in Vancouver and helped her through the competition.

Mental resilience in competition can be learned.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Simone, You don't feel that 18/19 and 23 are similar ages? Really? How so? Also, they don't have similar skills? Could you explain more, please. I am far from an expert on skating skills

So what is your take on Daleman? Where am I wrong? You feel she is a contender for the OG? OK I am listening. Let's hear what you have to say? In fact, just before you posted, I saw a commercial made by Ashley Wagner advertising some vehicle. I was thinking that a beautiful and talented woman like Daleman could make these types of commercials and make a fortune doing so. She could do so many other skating-related things, not just commercials. OK, so let's hear it, Big Guy; where am I wrong about Daleman?

You call me Big Guy... You really want to stir us up, don't you? You go that one wrong! LOL!
1. The thing is you voice your opinions without having a knowledgeable base to do so. Your comments on the Adsian skaters still do not hold the road.
2. The skating world has evolved a lot since your primetime watching time... And even more in the last quadrennial.
3. Who are you to be able to foresee the development of Gabrielle Daleman? You sure don't have a clue of the road she had to get at these Olympics, so how can you base your assessment on one performance you saw?
4. Skaters endorsements in Canada are far from being what it is in the US.
5. Is everything to be achieved in skating is an Olympic Gold medal?
6. If you think Chen and Hanyu are on the same level, all of these other comments you have made do not hold the road...

As we talk about detachment and mental health, I'll be wise and move on. To quote Sylvia : Never. Mind.

 

[4rkidz]

This is in my wheelhouse having provided these services to athletes in the past. Unfortunately we typically use mental strength training results with our athletes as a “reaction” to nerves or issues after the fact. What we should do is train our athletes mentally simultaneously as we train their bodies. Each training centre should include mental strength training from about age eight and incorporated into the daily or weekly training. Learning to compartmentalize is much easier if taught early on as opposed to in kids teens. (As example). Stress management should also be used with the parents and coaches because often it can be their energy that negatively impacts on the skater.

 

[brennele]

Chiquita,
For the record, I have changed my mind on Hanyu now that I have learned more about him.....I have become a huge Hanyu fan. I now absolutely agree the two skaters - Hanyu and Chen - are not at all on the same level, at all. Neither are they the same phenomenon in skating - totally different. Such does not negate my comments about stress and mental training. The post immediately before me says it all quite well - far better than I did. If you wish to keep the discussion free of negativity, such is just fine with me. We can certainly make better efforts to do so but then I would invite you to review your own posts. It is not as though you have come to this table with entirely clean hands

 

[quartz]

((((@overedge))))) Please don't cry - we still have Milan, and the whole off-season to look forward to!

 

[UGG]

I don’t think any of the US Ladies were mentally prepared. Mirai referred to her 3 weeks there as a “shit show” and complained about cold showers, and Karen and Bradie both made statements that would lead me to believe they were not prepared for the magnitude of the Olympics, and it was just too much. For Bradie especially- she was a nobody 3 months ago. How does one deal with that type of pressure and hype all of a sudden? Listening to their comments, none of these ladies had a champion mindset. Karen Chen especially. She was seriously a wasted spot that could have easily gone to Ashley had she not been held down. I realize they are all Olympians but they sound like a bunch of whiners. I do not think any of the US Ladies were mentally prepared.

 

[DreamSkates]

It's likely personal to each skater and what each needs and what works for him/her/them. Did anyone see Hanyu before both of his programs do some kind of eye-focus thing with a coach?

 

[brennele]

One thing which makes it difficult for our lady FS or any of our FS competitors, for that matter is that we don't have any significant State sponsorship of this sport. Many other countries do. For that reason not many from the huge US population can even compete, given the financial pressures involved. Then, beyond financial, there is all of the personal lifestyle compromises to be made - getting up at the wee hours of the morning for ice rink time; missing out on school and other social activities important for people in their age group - all in the interest of training; huge family sacrifices, parents willing to play a huge role in the preparation, etc. The demands are so great and the sacrifices so overwhelming that we end up with a narrow pool of candidates who are even eligible to compete.

In some other countries, there is State funding so athletes in training can have a more normal lifestyle and they are not asked to make so many unrealistic sacrifices i.e. give everything up for skating. The two Russian skaters, for example, say they love what they are doing and will both be around for many more years to come. It does not appear that they are much "suffering" for the choices they have made to be competitive skaters. They love it and their lifestyle is not so hard on them. When we make it so tough (and so enormously expensive) to even be a top-level competitor in this sport, we are not going to have a whole lot of choices of persons from which to pick in the first place when we need to choose FS competitors for Olympic events. Of course, it is disgraceful to make public statements that the events are a "shit show." Bottom line, however, is that we send the best we have got and, sadly, we don't always have all that much choice in the matter. To quote an old adage: the pickings can be slim at times and, it seems to be getting worse. Another thing which did not help this sport, at all, is the current emphasis on jumping as the end all and be all. That trend narrows the pool even further. Within our population numbers, there are lots of people who could be top-notch athletes in this sport - and with the right mindset, as well - but our current system is such that, likely, we will never find them.

 

[brennele]

Dreamskates, I saw it many times. It has been said that he is balancing his inner ear and eye coordination. From a strictly scientific/medical perspective, such an effort would be very important and worthwhile to do.