Approaching officials after events

[Aussie Willy]

I am part of a working group here that is looking at a judging system for lower levels. One issue that was raised was about coaches/parents/skaters approaching officials after events in a not so nice manner. The concern was more for newer judges to the sport.

Does anyone know of any resource material around this, whether videos or documents that I could use? Don't want to have to reinvent the wheel if possible. We have member protection policies and the like, but this is more to promote the topic. More of a guide but also cover what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.

On the other hand, if I was write something up, what topics would be covered? Want to keep it brief but get the message across.

 

[misskarne]

Hmm, I don't recall if there's anything official. I just remember being told what to do if someone did.

If something was written up, I think it would be very important to make clear the proper procedure for requesting clarification. I know TCs and referees who get emails from parents/coaches for weeks after the event demanding explanations. But I also suppose some clubs or associations might have slightly different arrangements, even if the basic setup is the same.

Perhaps throw in that only the video used by the tech panel - if there is video! - can be used to make decisions, and it doesn't matter if you have video of little Susie that you think shows they did it right filmed from the stands. More than once I've seen a skater or coach waving a phone under the TC/referee's nose. And if there's not video, well tough luck, they can't revise it based on your shaky iPhone video.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

Have you considered coordinating judging feedback sessions at competitions?

This may help reduce the number of interactions and offer an opportunity to better educate skaters and their families on etiquette (or establish best practices).

Here is a guide for them at USFS: https://www.usfsa.org/content/2019 Guidelilnes for Critiques.pdf

 

[overedge]

IMO parents shouldn't be approaching the officials at all, especially judges. I know they do, but the judges don't answer to them. Would it be feasible to suggest that if parents or skaters have concerns about how an event was judged, they should bring those concerns to their coach, and ask the coach to talk to the officials or the referee?

As for coaches, is there some sort of professional conduct code that would give some guidance as to how/when coaches interact with judges or officials?

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

ITA with @overedge—it's generally considered that approaching judges/tech officials is poor form. If anything, concerns should go to the LOC or referee. Coaches should be communicating basic competition etiquette to parents/caregivers and skaters to set expectations and boundaries long before the event happens.

Some helpful resources:

https://usfsa.org/story?id=84149 (halfway down the page there's mention of "Respect and accept judges' decisions")

https://usfsa.org/content/BS-codeofconduct.pdf

https://usfsa.org/content/Parents%20Webinar%20slides.pdf

 

[Aussie Willy]

Thanks for the links. The parents webinar one is good. I like the "Myths". Haven't we heard those before?

There are two kinds of feedback when it comes to judging. There is questioning the official results. Then there is someone just asking about what the skater needs to improve.

As a judge I am very happy to give feedback of the second type after competitions and tests and I have quite a few who do ask me because they know me and trust me that I will be nice about it but objective. And that what I give is to help the skater improve.

I have had my fair share of coaches who do not follow the correct protocol. These days I can deal with it and guide them towards the right way to handle things. However in the past it really made things difficult because you are not just dealing with the questions but the personality behind them. That is the kind of problem we are dealing with.

 

[overedge]

@Aussie Willy from what you have said it sounds like maybe the way to approach this is to draw up two different sets of guidelines, e.g. "If you are a parent or a skater" and "If you are a coach". A flowchart might also be helpful, e.g. is your question about the results, yes/no, is your question about additional feedback, yes/no, and then outline the appropriate actions under each fork in the chart.

 

[SkateGuard]

I haven't judged since 6.0, but for what it's worth... I think an important thing for parents to keep in mind is that in a juvenile women's event with say, seventeen entries, Susie might not have even stuck out in the judge's mind. Especially if she placed somewhere in the middle of the pack and was one of five women who wore blue and skated to classical music. Cornering a judge after a competition and demanding to know why Susie placed 9th is an awkward enough situation, but if the judge barely remembers who she even was (three hours later after judging another event) it becomes a doubly awkward situation for everyone involved.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Questions I have have been asked over the years:

"Why did my skater get third?" asked by coach after a low level artistic competition. Answered with a quizzical expression by myself "Because they stood in the middle of a rink just doing dance moves?"
"Why did "insert skater" win?" (same coach asking about another skater in their skater's division). Not appropriate. When told coach that it was inappropriate they got huffy.
"The coach told me that "insert skater" won. Why didn't they?" The parent was the nicest person who I got on with really well. We had a very nice chat about it. She was very understanding and apologised for putting me in a difficult situation.
"What does my skater need to do to beat "insert skater"?" Advised parent in a kindly fashion that I can't answer that sort of question but I can give you feedback about your skater. Parent was very apologetic.

I have become very good at saying "not appropriate" and "send an email to the club if you have any questions about the event". Most parents actually are just a learning about the sport themselves. You sometimes have to guide them through these things.

 

[Willin]

In the US pretty much every club/regional/sectional/national competition I've been to has a judges' room with refreshments (and chairs), judges parking away from general admit/competitor parking, volunteers to keep parents out, and a back way to get to judges areas so parents physically do not and cannot interact with judges. A lot of the local club competitions when possible seat the judges across the ice surface from the spectators for more physical separation.

There's also a strict policy of only coaches being allowed to talk to judges, so if the parents want feedback they must go through official channels unless they know one of the judges personally. At competitions this means the parent either paying for a monitoring session or having a coach/judge panel discussion after the event if the competition allows that. All of these meetings happen in areas parents are not allowed to go to and generally focus on what the skater needs to improve their scores rather than criticism of the judging.