Anna Duskova / Martin Bidar split announced; both aim to continue with new partners

[clairecloutier]

I think Anna and Martin are both really talented in their own ways. Martin is maybe a little more polished, and he is much more coordinated and expressive than most guys his age. But Anna has this wonderful lightness and charm. And yes, a certain fearlessness that makes her exciting to watch. What really was exceptional about them, though, was how well-matched they were, even in their looks, and in their unison together. They had something of that "two-skating-as-one" feeling to them that Gordeeva/Grinkov did. Not many pairs today really have that quality, but they did.

I hope they both find great new partners. But I feel sad about them in the same way that I do about Pogrebinsky/Benoit--which is that I really liked them together, as a team, even more so than each of them individually. So I will miss them as a team.

 

[hanca]

I see where you are going. Her beauty of lines and effortless lightness will catch the eyes of judges. Amazing how she was able to push herself to be able to do those difficult programs so soon after surgery. She is strong of mind and body. Hope she has found someone who is a great pair guy and more important a wonderful person.

It’s not that.
In my view, Bidar was pretty useless in singles, whereas Duskova was among the top Czech singles ladies. (Yes, it may be because of the relatively low standard of Czech ladies and much higher standard of Czech men - Bidar had to compete against Verner and Brezina, whereas Duskova was competing only against skaters like Ukolova and Brezinova). Nevertheless, it would have been very difficult for Bidar to represent Czech Republic in singles, but it was quite possible for Duskova to get to Europeans or worlds as a single skater. She gave it up to do pairs.
A few years later, they are a pair that is on the rise and has a good potential. She wants to continue as it is (after all, it works for them and they are improving and rising through the ranking), but he wants to go abroad hoping to get something better. I don’t blame her that she doesn’t want to give up her education. But I think he should have compromised, stayed in Prague and go abroad with her during the holidays. He believes that abroad it is better; maybe it is but I have a feeling that he is repeating the path his brother chose. His brother dumped a partner with whom they were doing relatively well, went abroad, found a new partner, one of them got injured quite soon after and no one has ever seen him competing again. It feels to me a bit arrogant to get rid of a partner with whom one has good results; does he think he will have good results with anyone? Because it worked so well for Katsalapov. Going abroad is not a miracle cure; ask Vlasenko. Vlasenko went abroad to search for a partner, and ended up back in Russia with quite a weak Russian partner anyway. I would understand Bidar’s decision if his results with Duskova was not great and the partnership was not going anywhere, but considering they were doing well, it is a too big risk.
Duskova will be now strongly motivated to show him what he is missing. Depending who her new partner is, it may take a few years to get where she was with Bidar (not evryone is so lucky that she can have comparable results with a new partner the following year like Mishina/Mirzoev and next year Mishina/Galiamov). But I can see her being the one who last longer and ends higher.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Martin is a pair guy. He would be in demand as a partner in any country (except Russia and China) in the world.

 

[hanca]

Martin is a pair guy. He would be in demand as a partner in any country (except Russia and China) in the world.

I don’t question whether he would be in demand, but being a pair guy on its own is not enough to get the result. Look at Magyar - he is also a pair guy. This year competed withKashitsina, last year with Beklemysheva. Before that he had several more partners. Yet that didn’t help him to get to FS at worlds. Look at the pairs field generally - men are in demand. Souza-Kordeiru, Akulov, Stepanov, Novoselov - they all were snapped quite fast and at least they get to Europeans and worlds. But that is not enough to get the results. Look at Krasnopolsky - he also doesn’t seem to have a problem finding a partner; what is much harder is finding a partner with whom he can get decent results. I am not suggesting that Bidar would have any problem whatsoever finding a partner. What I am saying is that finding a partner with whom he can get to the top is much harder than he thinks. But good luck to him.

 

[Erin]

Your observation is correct but he and Duskova could have gone far, at this point he might have to settle for a B or C team North American pairs skater, maybe Duskova wasn’t up to his level (yet)

I felt the opposite - that she is the one with star quality and beautiful lines (and was landing the jumps this season in spite of just coming off of surgery) and he is a good, solid partner but not the same talent that she is.

 

[3Lz+3Lo]

Sorry to hear that but good luck to them both!

 

[Eislauffan]

I agree that is really a shame they split up and that they were a great match together. I also think that they somehow could have found a compromise. I understand Martin when he thinks that it is better to go abroad for training (Canada most likely) and I also understand Anna that she wants to pursue her education. Maybe they really could have split their training time between two places (as other people do) and she could have taken online classes. Maybe, maybe ... But they were not able to find a compromise.

Here is a secret hope that they will get back together after trying their separate ways. They are still very young and the split seems to be amicable, so no burnt bridges (at least I hope).

 

[Seerek]

Today's article from iDnes.cz is shedding a little more insight on the situation (perhaps a little extra 'sensationalism' added), touching on theories already discussed in this thread.


https://sport.idnes.cz/krasobruslen...-pfp-/sporty.aspx?c=A180427_183401_sporty_ald

 

[Tinami Amori]

I think Anna and Martin are both really talented in their own ways. Martin is maybe a little more polished, and he is much more coordinated and expressive than most guys his age. But Anna has this wonderful lightness and charm.

That's what i was thinking about Bidar. Duskova has lightness and charm, but i noticed she can't do a full split (or a split stretched as well as other girls) and she often does not point or keep her leg straight.
https://g.denik.cz/57/4c/me-kraso-anna-duskova-a-martin-bidar4_galerie-980.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...jQS7UcA-58dVByAFLN1yg9WoSTTH3Nnfe71OZTdsctb8Q
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Program_-_Anna_Duskova_and_Martin_Bidar_1.jpg
... leg positions like this usually concern me...
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Anna+Duskova+Previews+Winter+Olympics+Day+t5j9k8850Uzl.jpg
https://img.cncenter.cz/img/12/norm...brusleni-anna-duskova-martin-bidar-v0.jpg?v=0
... look at Luba's knee, stretch, pointing, posture, hand position..... I don't think Duskova have the body structure to hit such forms and lines..
https://adivinesport.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/ilyushechkina-moscovitch-sp.jpg?w=640
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/08/9c/9c089c3da4254de15c1c31b4e3051e80.jpg
http://www.insideskating.net/wp-con...vitch-pairs-practice-2017-Worlds-Helsinki.jpg

 

[hanca]

That's what i was thinking about Bidar. Duskova has lightness and charm, but i noticed she can't do a full split (or a split stretched as well as other girls) and she often does not point or keep her leg straight.
https://g.denik.cz/57/4c/me-kraso-anna-duskova-a-martin-bidar4_galerie-980.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...jQS7UcA-58dVByAFLN1yg9WoSTTH3Nnfe71OZTdsctb8Q
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Program_-_Anna_Duskova_and_Martin_Bidar_1.jpg
... leg positions like this usually concern me...
http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Anna+Duskova+Previews+Winter+Olympics+Day+t5j9k8850Uzl.jpg
https://img.cncenter.cz/img/12/norm...brusleni-anna-duskova-martin-bidar-v0.jpg?v=0
... look at Luba's knee, stretch, pointing, posture, hand position..... I don't think Duskova have the body structure to hit such forms and lines..
https://adivinesport.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/ilyushechkina-moscovitch-sp.jpg?w=640
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/08/9c/9c089c3da4254de15c1c31b4e3051e80.jpg
http://www.insideskating.net/wp-con...vitch-pairs-practice-2017-Worlds-Helsinki.jpg

Well, yes, Lubov has beautiful lines. But unlike her, Duskova can jump. If I had to choose one or the other, I know what I would choose. Duskova’s problem is fixable, Lubov jumps did not get better no matter how hard she works on it.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Well, yes, Lubov has beautiful lines. But unlike her, Duskova can jump. If I had to choose one or the other, I know what I would choose. Duskova’s problem is fixable, Lubov jumps did not get better no matter how hard she works on it.

I absolutely agree that Lubov, as far as i remember, has not yet skated a clean programme without messing up at least one jump with either partner up to date (or perhaps skated very few clean programmes, to be more accurate).

But, Duskova messes up a lot of jumps too, plus she can mess up lifts, foot work, and over all looks "unfinished" in her arm and leg movements/positions. It is specially noticeable when "the guy" looks more "elegant/polished/well stretched/fluid" than the girl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6SEX-WBM0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9qZ51Da72o
Not suggesting that Lubov is a perfect partner for Bidar, but in comparison she is better than Duskova. Plus, i am not sure if Luba has the money for training.. Bidar better find a Canadian girl with wealthy parents..

 

[RoseRed]

Well, yes, Lubov has beautiful lines. But unlike her, Duskova can jump. If I had to choose one or the other, I know what I would choose. Duskova’s problem is fixable, Lubov jumps did not get better no matter how hard she works on it.

I don't get why you seem want to make Martin a villain so much. It's not like disagreements over where to train are an uncommon reason for teams to split. Differences in priorities if school was important to her.

I could say that he was more committed to improving because he wanted to put everything into training and she wanted to split her time and focus with pursuing an education. I don't necessarily believe that, but you can make that argument just as easily as the one you're making.

 

[barbarafan]

I absolutely agree that Lubov, as far as i remember, has not yet skated a clean programme without messing up at least one jump with either partner up to date (or perhaps skated very few clean programmes, to be more accurate).

But, Duskova messes up a lot of jumps too, plus she can mess up lifts, foot work, and over all looks "unfinished" in her arm and leg movements/positions. It is specially noticeable when "the guy" looks more "elegant/polished/well stretched/fluid" than the girl.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6SEX-WBM0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9qZ51Da72o
Not suggesting that Lubov is a perfect partner for Bidar, but in comparison she is better than Duskova. Plus, i am not sure if Luba has the money for training.. Bidar better find a Canadian girl with wealthy parents..

Luba's jump problems are mental competition problems...She jumps fine in practice...I have seen clean programs here and there. She had a horrible training situation which may have been the cause of the comp.jump problem. I felt putting transitions b4 jumps might fix it (no time to overthink).last year that did a hands behind the back b4 jump & that worked a lot of the time. Perhaps money would be a prob. though...Dylan was paying for all. Lubov was funded last yr but she would have to have an approved partner for that to continue (I believe).But funding in Canada is peanuts and any non cdn partner would not have funding so....... But other than that he would be a good partner. Would love Anna to work with Lubov on those things you have pointed out which Anna is lacking in.

 

[hanca]

I don't get why you seem want to make Martin a villain so much. It's not like disagreements over where to train are an uncommon reason for teams to split. Differences in priorities if school was important to her.

I could say that he was more committed to improving because he wanted to put everything into training and she wanted to split her time and focus with pursuing an education. I don't necessarily believe that, but you can make that argument just as easily as the one you're making.

I don’t ‘want’ to make him look like a villain, but I think he was being unreasonable. Expecting her to drop everything one year before finishing her secondary school (grammar school), a year before the main exams, that’s ridiculous. His idea of her taking her last year as distance study does not really work when doing the final year at grammar school. The exams (called maturita) are very important. Without decent marks she has no chance of getting to any proper university. And in Czech republic you don’t get second chances. In many countries there is a chance to get the A levels (equivalent to maturita) later in life. In the Czech republic there is not much mature adult education. If you mess up when you are 18 and don’t get decent marks at exams, no university for you. Unless you are quite rich and can pay for private university education. At private university they admit anyone, but it is seriously expensive.

 

[hanca]

Mirzoev dumped Mishina because ‘she is too heavy’, even though they had very good results together. Where is he now? Not competed the whole season. Mishina got another medal at junior worlds with a new partner.

Katsalapov dumped Ilynikh and hoped that he can have comparable or better results with Sinitsina. And the result- in the last four years they skate together they were sent to worlds only once and placed 9th. No olympics.

Krasnopolsky is dumping his partner after every season and yet his best result was 15th at Olympics with Davidovich and 17th at worlds with Montalbano (and 7th at Europeans with Davidovich).

Martin Bidar’s brother, Peter Bidar, placed with Kadlecova 7th at Europeans. (For Russian pair it would be a disaster, but for Czech republic it was considered a very good result). But he decided that he would like a slimmer girl (he commented in an interview about her weight. She definitely wasn’t fat, by the way). And the result - no one has ever seen him and his new partner in a competition.

Sopot dumped Borisova to skate with Poluyanova. Borisova struggled with jumps, and Poluyanova is his girlfriend... With Poluyanova they struggled the whole season and did not reach the results he had with Borisova, despite her struggles with jumps.

Pavlova split Atakhanova/Spiridonov to give him a better partner (Kudryavtseva). Well, what did Kudryavtseva/Spiridonov achieve this season? Nothing. Whereas Atakhanova paired with Volodin and together they won Russian nationals of elder age.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think a pair should stay together if there are no results, but splitting up when there are promising results and hoping to land something better often doesn’t lead to the result one hoped for.

 

[RoseRed]

I don’t ‘want’ to make him look like a villain, but I think he was being unreasonable. Expecting her to drop everything one year before finishing her secondary school (grammar school), a year before the main exams, that’s ridiculous. His idea of her taking her last year as distance study does not really work when doing the final year at grammar school. The exams (called maturita) are very important. Without decent marks she has no chance of getting to any proper university. And in Czech republic you don’t get second chances. In many countries there is a chance to get the A levels (equivalent to maturita) later in life. In the Czech republic there is not much mature adult education. If you mess up when you are 18 and don’t get decent marks at exams, no university for you. Unless you are quite rich and can pay for private university education. At private university they admit anyone, but it is seriously expensive.

Well according to some articles shared on GS, she wants to study medicine. If she's planning to stay in Czechia for that, that's not one year, but many. And also a very demanding thing to study and try to balance with skating.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I don’t ‘want’ to make him look like a villain, but I think he was being unreasonable. Expecting her to drop everything one year before finishing her secondary school (grammar school), a year before the main exams, that’s ridiculous. His idea of her taking her last year as distance study does not really work when doing the final year at grammar school. The exams (called maturita) are very important. Without decent marks she has no chance of getting to any proper university. And in Czech republic you don’t get second chances. In many countries there is a chance to get the A levels (equivalent to maturita) later in life. In the Czech republic there is not much mature adult education. If you mess up when you are 18 and don’t get decent marks at exams, no university for you. Unless you are quite rich and can pay for private university education. At private university they admit anyone, but it is seriously expensive.

No one is a villain, and no one is unreasonable. The have different plans and that's normal. They are not tied at the waste... it's ok for people to have different goals and go their own way without having to sacrifice one's personal plans for sake of another. They parted friends and good luck to both of them.

the post about dumping a partner

... and then there are many cases when the one, who dumped a partner, did better with the next partner.....

 

[hanca]

Well according to some articles shared on GS, she wants to study medicine. If she's planning to stay in Czechia for that, that's not one year, but many.

She still has a year of grammar school to do. Wanting to study medicine doesn't mean that she will study medicine. Out of my class about 50 percent of students wanted to study law. Only 3 students put the applications in and only one got in. I obviously don’t know what marks she gets at school, but it is quite hard to get to uni to study medicine. They are VERY selective.

 

[VarBar]

Oh boy, and think that I had grown to really like D/B and root for them in the past couple years. Bummed.

 

[Tinami Amori]

She still has a year of grammar school to do. Wanting to study medicine doesn't mean that she will study medicine. Out of my class about 50 percent of students wanted to study law. Only 3 students put the applications in and only one got in. I obviously don’t know what marks she gets at school, but it is quite hard to get to uni to study medicine. They are VERY selective.

I don't get your point.... unless you're trying to say something odd like "if it is so hard to get into Med school, she should not even try"?

 

[hanca]

I don't get your point.... unless you're trying to say something odd like "if it is so hard to get into Med school, she should not even try"?

No, my point isn’t that she shouldn’t try. My point was that it is not even certain whether she will study medicine. So the reason for splitting now because she may or may not study medicine from September 2019 is not really a reason.

 

[avivadawn]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

If Lubov couldnt hit her jumps the past 3 years she aint gonna hit them going forward. Just sayin

And whats the age difference between them?

 

[Lizziebeth]

I think Anna and Martin are both really talented in their own ways. Martin is maybe a little more polished, and he is much more coordinated and expressive than most guys his age. But Anna has this wonderful lightness and charm. And yes, a certain fearlessness that makes her exciting to watch. What really was exceptional about them, though, was how well-matched they were, even in their looks, and in their unison together. They had something of that "two-skating-as-one" feeling to them that Gordeeva/Grinkov did. Not many pairs today really have that quality, but they did.

I hope they both find great new partners. But I feel sad about them in the same way that I do about Pogrebinsky/Benoit--which is that I really liked them together, as a team, even more so than each of them individually. So I will miss them as a team.

I got the "two skating as one" vibe from them too. They were so well matched and the unison thing was really working for them. Even if they had some polishing up to do, this something that a lot of pairs can't do very well. It was a little bit "old school" in a good way. I am really sad about the split.

 

[clairecloutier]

If Lubov couldnt hit her jumps the past 3 years she aint gonna hit them going forward. Just sayin

And whats the age difference between them?

The age difference between Martin/Lubov is 7 years (19/26). So I don't think a partnership would work for that reason alone.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Maybe these two will become much better teams with new partners, that will suit them even better... We don't know yet how it will go, why cry?

I don't think a girl in the team should be "less polished" than the guy, but it works in reverse when a guy is less polished than the girl (S/M example). I am looking forward to find out who their next partners will be... what if it is even better than now and the teams are better matched?

 

[Eislauffan]

Martin Bidar’s brother, Peter Bidar, placed with Kadlecova 7th at Europeans. (For Russian pair it would be a disaster, but for Czech republic it was considered a very good result). But he decided that he would like a slimmer girl (he commented in an interview about her weight. She definitely wasn’t fat, by the way). And the result - no one has ever seen him and his new partner in a competition.

To be fair, IIRC, Petr Bidar had serious health problems that forced him to retire.

But yes, it's a gamble if a promising team splits up, only because at least one partner is looking for something "better". Sometimes it works and the new pair is better and sometimes it doesn't work. There are also many factors like training situation, injuries etc. In this case apparently Anna and Martin didn't split up because they were not happy with each other, but because they had different ideas about their career and how to progress.

I think it is important for Anna to finish high school (grammar school) with good grades so she has enough options to study whatever she wants later. I somehow misunderstood that she already finished high school and wanted to study medicine starting this fall. But if she still has to finish high school and if the situation in Czech Republic is as described (you don't get a second chance) then I fully understand that she needs to focus on that now and cannot move abroad if there are no opportunities to finish high school for example at a Czech school in Canada (embassies have usually schools for the children of the diplomats to make sure they get the necessary education according to the standards of their country) or by doing online studies. If it was only about that last year in high school, it is a shame that they could not find a compromise. I mean, this is just the beginning of the new Olympic cycle. They could have gone to Canada together next year after she completed high school and she didn't have to start studying medicine right away.
But whatever, this is all just speculation. Maybe for Anna school and education are more important than results in figure skating and Martin has higher ambitions and does not see he can get there with Anna, not because she is not good enough, but because her career as a figure skater is not her top priority in life.

 

[Erin]

I hadn't realized Anna was still in high school either. I forget how young these two are!

I agree @Eislauffan that it's too bad that a compromise couldn't have been reached but also that since we don't know the whole story of what went on, we will have to trust that they each know what is best for themselves. I hope they are both successful in their new partnerships.

 

[hanca]

To be fair, IIRC, Petr Bidar had serious health problems that forced him to retire.

But yes, it's a gamble if a promising team splits up, only because at least one partner is looking for something "better". Sometimes it works and the new pair is better and sometimes it doesn't work. There are also many factors like training situation, injuries etc. In this case apparently Anna and Martin didn't split up because they were not happy with each other, but because they had different ideas about their career and how to progress.

I think it is important for Anna to finish high school (grammar school) with good grades so she has enough options to study whatever she wants later. I somehow misunderstood that she already finished high school and wanted to study medicine starting this fall. But if she still has to finish high school and if the situation in Czech Republic is as described (you don't get a second chance) then I fully understand that she needs to focus on that now and cannot move abroad if there are no opportunities to finish high school for example at a Czech school in Canada (embassies have usually schools for the children of the diplomats to make sure they get the necessary education according to the standards of their country) or by doing online studies. If it was only about that last year in high school, it is a shame that they could not find a compromise. I mean, this is just the beginning of the new Olympic cycle. They could have gone to Canada together next year after she completed high school and she didn't have to start studying medicine right away.
But whatever, this is all just speculation. Maybe for Anna school and education are more important than results in figure skating and Martin has higher ambitions and does not see he can get there with Anna, not because she is not good enough, but because her career as a figure skater is not her top priority in life.

Just to clarify, when I wrote that you won’t get second chances at maturita, what I meant was that you can’t decide later in life (e.g. when you are 30) that you want to return to studying and do your maturita so that you can get to uni. You do maturita only as a part of the middle school (‘střední škola’ - equivalent of British sixth form or college) or grammar school. Grammar school is intended as a preparation school for uni. In the UK there is lots of classes at colleges intended for mature students, so one can try to do (or re-take) their A levels at any age. In the Czech Republic you can’t postpone your maturita to do it a few later or re-take your maturita later in life because there are not classes preparing mature students for maturita, and I have never heard of mature student coming back to do the whole grammar school.
Strictly speaking, you have a second chance, because if someone fails in May/June, they can re-take it in September, but it does have implications for what university you can attend. I can’t see anyone being able to study the highly selective courses such as law or medicine if they had to retake their maturita. (I am not sure what happens if someone fails even the second attempt because I have never met anyone who did fail it second time.) But this type of second chance would not help Anna anyway.

Last year at grammar school is definitely not the time to try to miss too much school or trying to get individual study plan. (Not many schools would be open to allowing individual study plan at the last year or grammar school.) What would have been much better would be to wait for a year and then apply for university abroad, (in Canada if it was where they decided to train) or find such university that have exchange program that allows a year stay at another university abroad. That could have been doable with many university courses, although not sure if with medicine course.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Just to clarify, when I wrote that you won’t get second chances at maturita, what I meant was that you can’t decide later in life (e.g. when you are 30) that you want to return to studying and do your maturita so that you can get to uni. You do maturita only as a part of the middle school (‘střední škola’ - equivalent of British sixth form or college) or grammar school. Grammar school is intended as a preparation school for uni. In the UK there is lots of classes at colleges intended for mature students, so one can try to do (or re-take) their A levels at any age.

North Americans don't know a) what the term "Maturita" means, the word itself, and b) and the "concept of it" as there are no "Graduation/Exit Exams" on top of "individual courses exams" during last year of high-school. In North Am you only take regular exams for the actual courses you take during last year and if you pass (given you passed all previous years) you get your High School Diploma. (the entry exams into Universities in USA are also a completely different process and concept, not like in Eastern Europe and some other countries in Europe, etc.).

If a person fails in High School, or does not complete all 4 grades of High School, drops out, in other words "does not graduate", he/she can later (at ANY age) take General Education Test/Exam and get a "GED" - General Education Diploma, which is not the same, but equivalent to High School Diploma. US issued GED is often not recognized by other countries. But it can be used in USA (don't know about Canada) to apply to some (not all) colleges/universities and all trade schools.