4 CC 2021 in Sydney are cancelled...

[allezfred]

I have seen signs that Euros is trending that way as well so I'm not sure it's solely a 4CCs thing. OTOH, any competition which includes skaters from 4 different continents is going to involve extensive travel for a large portion of them compared to a competition which only covers athletes from one continent, regardless of a few here and there who train in the US or Canada.

Except we have Grand Prix events taking place within weeks of each other on three different continents. I think skating fans make a bigger deal of the travel involved than I have ever seen skaters do.

 

[overedge]

Worlds after Olympics is often my favorite, good opportunity back in the day for skaters stuck "waiting their turn" in dance to pick up medals. For those of us who like surprises and unexpected medalists in general (#ttw lol), post Olympics Worlds are a great opportunity for weird shit to happen.

^^This. Plus sometimes there are skaters who should have gone to the Olympics, but didn't get to for various reasons, and they come to Worlds ready to kick some a**. There is always at least one great performance at post-Olympic Worlds.

 

[Frau Muller]

I enjoyed 4CC as much as the next person but there’s nothing racist about thinking it’s a lesser competition. Saying so is beyond ridiculous and shows an immense misunderstanding of what the term racist means.

I think both 4CC and Europeans are prestigious and it is very odisappointing that they will likely not take place this year. However bringing in charges of racism when talking about the perception of a skating competition considering the police brutality and actual examples or racism occurring in the news today is beyond ridiculous.

That’s what they always say about covert racism...like every WASP elite who doesn’t get it. Check out OvercomingRacism.com ... they can explain to you or your organization:

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[MacMadame]

Except we have Grand Prix events taking place within weeks of each other on three different continents. I think skating fans make a bigger deal of the travel involved than I have ever seen skaters do.

But a lot of skaters cluster them. So they do SA and SCI both on the same continent. Or they do two of the 3 in Europe. The 2 in Asia. Or one early and one late.

If I were a skater from NA and 4CCs was in Asia the same year the Olympics were in Europe, I absolutely would skip 4CCs unless there was something unique to my situation that made 4CCs worth it.

 

[Bellanca]

Except we have Grand Prix events taking place within weeks of each other on three different continents. I think skating fans make a bigger deal of the travel involved than I have ever seen skaters do.

Another good point!

I've heard many grumblings over the years about Rostelecom Cup and how inconvenient that can be. Still, if a skater is likely to contend for the GPF and is assigned to that particular GP event, you can bet they're on a plane to Russia. Priorities.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

^^This. Plus sometimes there are skaters who should have gone to the Olympics, but didn't get to for various reasons, and they come to Worlds ready to kick some a**. There is always at least one great performance at post-Olympic Worlds.

Wakaba Higuchi would be a prime example. She tore up the ice in Milan, and took a well-deserved silver medal.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Four Continents is always going to be hobbled by location. Meaning, no matter where it is held, it will always mean more than a day of hard travel getting to the event for some competitors.

In a way, I am sorry that the North American Championships didn't continue.

Even though Skate Canada and Skate America ended up replacing it to a degree, it was always attended by the top three US and Canadian medalists every second year the competition was held.

 

[MsZem]

But a lot of skaters cluster them. So they do SA and SCI both on the same continent. Or they do two of the 3 in Europe. The 2 in Asia. Or one early and one late.

If I were a skater from NA and 4CCs was in Asia the same year the Olympics were in Europe, I absolutely would skip 4CCs unless there was something unique to my situation that made 4CCs worth it.

Skaters have some say, but they don't really get to pick their GPs, let alone cluster them. Most of them do not get two events on the same continent.

For example, Papadakis/Cizeron train in Canada, always do the French GP, and usually get either CoC or NHK as their other assignment. These events are often two weeks apart, and there's also the GPF. They have never been assigned to either Skate America or Skate Canada, and only got Rostelecom their first senior season. Shoma Uno's assignments since he turned senior: Skate America/TEB, Skate America/Rostelecom, Skate Canada/France, Skate Canada/NHK, Rostelecom/France.

I'm not sure what you mean by two of the 3 in Europe, there aren't 3 GP events in Europe and the last time anyone did 3 GPs was IIRC in 2011, when some skaters were eligible for an extra assignment if they wanted it. Carolina Kostner went to Skate America, CoC and TEB.

So I think allezfred was right that it's not just the travel that affects skaters' decision re whether to go to competitions.

I wrote earlier that the issue with 4CC seems to be the combination of travel time, timing of the competition (blame the timing of US/Canadian Nationals?), and perceived prestige/importance of the event. Remove any one of these things and I suspect Olympic season 4CC would look a lot more like regular 4CCs - which are often top-notch competitions.

 

[misskarne]

Nathan hasn't been for 2 years, but he has school.

Nathan doesn't count, because he also arranges his GPs around school. 4CC isn't the only event he skips.

 

[Orm Irian]

If I were a skater from NA and 4CCs was in Asia the same year the Olympics were in Europe, I absolutely would skip 4CCs unless there was something unique to my situation that made 4CCs worth it.

And if I were a skater from South Africa and 4CCs was in North America the same year the Olympics were in Europe, I wouldn't have the option of skipping it, no matter how much travel was involved or how expensive that travel was or how close to Nationals it fell, because there would probably be no-one else to represent my country, and even if there were, the damage done to my reputation and season momentum by skipping it would be considerable.

Funny how the conversation about 4CCs being 'skippable' or skipping it being 'understandable' due to travel times/Nationals scheduling/perceived status of the competition/whatever other excuse can be drummed up only ever involves skaters from the US, Canada and maybe Japan. Nobody talks about how those factors affect skaters like Allison Perticheto or James Min or Michael Christian Martinez or Harrison Bain, but I guarantee you they do, and those skaters don't have the option of playing delicate flower and refusing to show up because some later competition is more important. Maybe if the two big North American federations stopped treating it as a negligible event and letting their skaters treat it as such, its perceived status would rise.

 

[antmanb]

It's been a long time since we had lots of skating to watch.

At this point i'd take the standard of skating at the inaugural 4CCs over the lack of skating there is now

 

[MsZem]

It's been a long time since we had lots of skating to watch.

At this point i'd take the standard of skating at the inaugural 4CCs over the lack of skating there is now

Loena Hendrickx did really well at the Budapest Trophy this past weekend, go watch that!

It's too bad none of the non-Europeans based in Europe has been able to compete at the two CS events so far, I hope to see some of them later this season.

 

[Colonel Green]

And if I were a skater from South Africa and 4CCs was in North America the same year the Olympics were in Europe, I wouldn't have the option of skipping it, no matter how much travel was involved or how expensive that travel was or how close to Nationals it fell, because there would probably be no-one else to represent my country, and even if there were, the damage done to my reputation and season momentum by skipping it would be considerable.

I haven’t seen any instance where skipping Four Continents damaged a small fed skater’s reputation or momentum. And that does happen.

 

[clairecloutier]

In a way, I am sorry that the North American Championships didn't continue.

Even though Skate Canada and Skate America ended up replacing it to a degree, it was always attended by the top three US and Canadian medalists every second year the competition was held.

I’m happy with 4CCs as a competition, and I think it’s growing in prestige and importance each year, despite the travel/timing challenges.

But this post makes me think ... If skating were to significantly increase in popularity, etc., in the future, I wonder if we might one day see separate American (North/South) and Asian/Oceanic major ISU championships.

 

[Erin]

It's been a long time since we had lots of skating to watch.

At this point i'd take the standard of skating at the inaugural 4CCs over the lack of skating there is now

As someone who was at the inaugural 4CCs (my first ever live event), I had no complaint about the standard of skating. Yes, there were some skaters at the bottom who probably had about the level that we often see at the bottom of the JGP standings now, but the winners in every event were great. Shen & Zhao and Bourne & Kraatz both medalled at Worlds that season, and I think Honda and Malinina probably would have too if they had skated as well as they did at 4CC. (I would also argue that Malinina should have medalled in Helsinki as it was.) Anyway, it was probably one of my favourite events that I've attended and not just for nostalgic reasons.

Re skaters not attending 4CC in an Olympic season, I think it's a perfect storm of issues - combination of travel time, too little down time in between events for the Canadian and US skaters, and trying to be in peak condition for what might be a once in a lifetime event. I think there is a huge difference between being willing to put up with the travel time for two GPs in a row vs the Olympics. There is also a difference in timing for European skaters who usually have their nationals in December vs the Canadian/US skaters having theirs in January.

 

[Bellanca]

So I think allezfred was right that it's not just the travel that affects skaters' decision re whether to go to competitions.

I wrote earlier that the issue with 4CC seems to be the combination of travel time, timing of the competition (blame the timing of US/Canadian Nationals?), and perceived prestige/importance of the event. Remove any one of these things and I suspect Olympic season 4CC would look a lot more like regular 4CCs - which are often top-notch competitions.

I agree.

Regarding the Olympic season, skaters are very wary of injuries occurring (as everyone knows), but I applaud those skaters who show up to pre-Olympic comps and compete anyway. I think preserving the body is critical and a big reason some will skip competing at specific competitions in an Olympic year, which has been the leading cause for competition cherry-picking - not a criticism, just an observation.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm not sure what you mean by two of the 3 in Europe, there aren't 3 GP events in Europe and the last time anyone did 3 GPs was IIRC in 2011, when some skaters were eligible for an extra assignment if they wanted it. Carolina Kostner went to Skate America, CoC and TEB.

So I think allezfred was right that it's not just the travel that affects skaters' decision re whether to go to competitions.

I forgot that there was no event in Germany anymore. So there are 2 in Europe, 2 in NA and 2 in Asia. We definitely see NA skaters do SkAm and SCI and Asian skaters do NHK and CoC. We also see skaters who train in NA doing one of SkAM and SCI and then one in/closer to their home country. Assigning a skater who trains in Canada but skates for France to do CoC and CoR isn't going to happen if that skater and/or their coach has any pull at all (or they want it that way).

The higher a skater is in the rankings and the more popular they are, the more choice they have. Technically it's all on the NGB to invite them but the NGBs do horse trade and they also do consult with the skaters with clout. They also do things like try to invite skaters with the same coach to the same events, if they can. This is why the TBA at SkAm is often either someone skating in the area they are held (when they were held in SoCal, Caroline Zhang got invited even though her results in prior years might not suggest she'd get that invite) or someone whose coach is already there for another entrant.

If P/C went to CoC/NHK it's because they wanted to IMO. They probably feel obligated to do the one in France so "want" isn't the right word for that one. But if they absolutely didn't want to, they wouldn't. They are World Champions and Olympic Medalists!

Now I know someone is going to respond to this with every instance where a coach had their skaters split across events or a skater had to go to inconvenient events. That doesn't mean these negotiations don't go on and it doesn't mean that these factors aren't considered. It just means that sometimes it doesn't work out perfectly for everyone.

I haven’t seen any instance where skipping Four Continents damaged a small fed skater’s reputation or momentum. And that does happen.

It definitely happens only it's often an issue of money for those skaters as they aren't getting a lot of monetary support. They can afford to go to Worlds or 4CCs, not both, for example. Obviously, they will go to Worlds unless there is some compelling reason to go to 4CCs instead.

Nathan doesn't count, because he also arranges his GPs around school. 4CC isn't the only event he skips.

Of course, it counts. All skaters who skip events they are invited to/eligible for have their reasons. Nathan's reasons are school. But he doesn't skip Worlds no matter what his school schedule is.

 

[MsZem]

I forgot that there was no event in Germany anymore.

Wow, that's retro

 

[MacMadame]

Wow, that's retro

Can you tell I don't pay much attention to the GP? There were years there when I didn't even watch it. Just Nationals and Worlds.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I love that Four Continents allows participating countries, assuming they have made the minimum TES. up to 3 skaters or teams per discipline.

One of the reasons why it would have been exciting to see Four Continents in Sydney next year, was that Australia could potentially have sent 3 dance teams, 3 men, and one lady. It is rare that we are able to send more than one skater per discipline to the world championships, and an international competition of this caliber could have helped boost local interest in the sport.