4 CC 2021 in Sydney are cancelled...

Weve3

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But if you’re polling skaters who choose not to attend 4CC on what their reasons for not going are, skaters who go to Euros wouldn’t be part of that poll. ;)
No, but what it would show is that 4CC is not entirely on Europeans level for eligible skaters, as some will still choose to take a pass based on travel time, etc. If a competition is highly regarded (e.g., Europeans), then a skater would make it a priority to go no matter the distance or the event's timing. Some skaters are determined to attend Europeans every season; it is that important to them. In comparison, 4CC is still optional for some.

I believe 4CC is in much better shape than it used to be, that's for sure. Eventually, it might enjoy the same prestige as Europeans.

It must be a pretty slow weekend when suddenly we are seriously debating whether 4CC holds up against Europeans. My initial comment about it was a casual observation. ;) :lol:
ETA::watch:

ETA: I hope that 4CC eligible skaters will someday really covet a 4CC title the way a Europeans eligible skater covets a European Figure Skating Championship title. To be fair, I think some already do. (y)
 
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Vagabond

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In recent past years, 4CC has had much stronger events than anything we've seen at Euros (aside from ladies).
There hasn't been that much depth in the European Ladies competition recently. Last season, for example, only three skaters earned Total Scores over 200 points. (Guess what Federation they represented.) By contrast, eight Ladies scored that high at Four Continents.
 

Weve3

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It IS a B rated comp. Don't know what to do to fix it. But it has always lacked gravitas
Indeed, that was the case for a long time, but eventually, 4CC may catch up and be viewed as prestigious an event as Europeans. I've already mentioned that I believe it has come a long way but is still deemed expendable, depending on the skater(s).

Europeans, on the other hand, is a title that eligible European skaters very much desire. When Sarah Meier won her European title, she felt like she had just won the Olympics.
 

allezfred

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I wouldn’t ever describe Four Continents as a B International these days. Maybe Olympic year is lower level. Most of the time the quality of skaters and skating is higher than Euros.

However in terms of prestige and importance to the skaters who compete there, no doubt it is Euros hands down. The top European skaters wouldn’t miss Euros if at all possible even in an Olympic year.
 

Weve3

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I wouldn’t ever describe Four Continents as a B International these days. Maybe Olympic year is lower level. Most of the time the quality of skaters and skating is higher than Euros.

However in terms of prestige and importance to the skaters who compete there, no doubt it is Euros hands down. The top European skaters wouldn’t miss Euros if at all possible even in an Olympic year.
Perfect! I agree.
 

VGThuy

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I wonder if a big reason why 4CC historically (if not recently) had skaters who skipped was because of scheduling. Canadian and US nationals take place a week or so before 4CC typically while most Euro Nationals take place much further back before Euros. Historically, for smaller countries, Euros is their big competition and then there’s a long lull before Worlds.
 

Weve3

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If 4CCs is a "B" level competition, I suppose the ladies event at any country's nationals other than Russia is as well.
No, not at all. The issue is not the quality of skater competing at 4CC because the World's very best have competed there; it's more about how the event (competition) itself is perceived. No one has said (that I'm aware of anyway) the skaters attending are a level below or somehow inferior to any other skater competing at a senior-eligible competition. That's simply not true, quite the contrary. It's about the significance or lack thereof regarding the competition itself and what it means or how important it is to the skater. In the past, it wasn't considered a must compete for competition, but it has had a spectacular roster of skating stars lately.

Europeans have longevity and a rich history that makes it a very sought after and desirable event to compete and, more importantly, win. It would be nice to see 4CC follow suit.

It's frustrating and disappointing when healthy skaters continue to bow out of 4CC because the whole idea was/is for it to become the equal of Europeans. When skaters kind of wave it away (tbh, more than a few still do) and suggest their teammates go instead, I sense that it continues to be deliberately dismissed as a trivial, insignificant event, which is sad and unfortunate. The skaters competing are not b-rate; I've never felt that way or said that, but getting the sport, in general, to see it beyond a cheese-fest has been the challenge.

ETA: I might just add that skating and its numerous competitions go above and beyond the Russian ladies. Not every comment is meant to be interpreted as solely revolving around them. 😉
 
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Vagabond

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It's frustrating and disappointing when healthy skaters continue to bow out of 4CC because the whole idea was/is for it to become the equal of Europeans. When skaters kind of wave it away (tbh, more than a few still do) and suggest their teammates go instead, I sense that it continues to be deliberately dismissed as a trivial, insignificant event, which is sad and unfortunate. The skaters competing are not b-rate; I've never felt that way or said that, but getting the sport, in general, to see it beyond a cheese-fest has been the challenge.
The issue here isn't isn't skaters' perceptions of 4CC's; it's the perceptions of certain posters on FSU.
 

manhn

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Most skaters do attend 4CC, except during an Olympic year. And skaters who win do seem very appreciative of that victory. It’s not the skaters, but fans. People mock Kevin’s victory at 4CC in a way they don’t when, say, Sarah won Euros.

I will say that 09 4CC is the best live event I ever attended, and that includes the 10 Olympics.
 
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Weve3

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:lol: Fans have always been a problem. They're never satisfied and occasionally cranky! ;) ^^
 

misskarne

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No, not at all. The issue is not the quality of skater competing at 4CC because the World's very best have competed there; it's more about how the event (competition) itself is perceived.
By certain snobby fans who think that unless something's been going for 50 years it's not worthy of respect.

It's about the significance or lack thereof regarding the competition itself and what it means or how important it is to the skater. In the past, it wasn't considered a must compete for competition, but it has had a spectacular roster of skating stars lately.
Skaters almost never choose not to go to 4CC except in Olympic years. That's still pretty prestigious.

It's frustrating and disappointing when healthy skaters continue to bow out of 4CC because the whole idea was/is for it to become the equal of Europeans. When skaters kind of wave it away (tbh, more than a few still do) and suggest their teammates go instead,
Who's done that, other than Ashley Wagner, in recent years? Pretty much no-one. This is a myth that continues to be perpetuated by fans who for some reason do not want 4CC to get any kind of "prestige" (maybe because they're scared of people realising it's the much better competition?)

I sense that it continues to be deliberately dismissed as a trivial, insignificant event, which is sad and unfortunate.
Again, by certain snobby fans.

Something can be around for years and be garbage, while something newer can be prestigious. 4CC has been the better comp for years now.
 

MacMadame

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We've only done well once! Kate Miller-Heidke was our only entrant who was spacey enough to fit in. :lol: Prior to that we made the mistake of sending Serious Musicians and a Hobbit.

How could a Hobbit not fit into Eurovision?!?! :drama:
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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Most skaters do attend 4CC, except during an Olympic year. And skaters who win do seem very appreciative of that victory. It’s not the skaters, but fans. People mock Kevin’s victory at 4CC in a way they don’t when, say, Sarah won Euros.

I will say that 09 4CC is the best live event I ever attended, and that includes the 10 Olympics.
That was a great competition, and a significant changing of the guard when Davis and White, along with Virtue and Moir, overtook more senior competitors to make the dance podium.

One of the highlights was being in the arena packed with Korean fans when YuNa Kim broke the World Record for her short program.

Joannie Rochette also proved that she was finally being given the respect she deserved, and given serious consideration at the ISU Championship level.
 

MsZem

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Most skaters do attend 4CC, except during an Olympic year. And skaters who win do seem very appreciative of that victory. It’s not the skaters, but fans. People mock Kevin’s victory at 4CC in a way they don’t when, say, Sarah won Euros.
I've never seen anyone mock Kevin Reynolds' 4CC win. Sarah Meier's European championship is quite possibly the most fairytale ending I've ever seen in sports :)

Skaters generally don't skip Europeans every fourth year. If a major competition is essentially a consolation event 25% of the time, that does speak to its perceptions among skaters and federations. Of course, if they could just hold it in January it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
 

MsZem

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It really doesn't. It just speaks to how many hours of travel are required immediately before an Olympic Games.

And let's be honest. Worlds is a consolation event once every four years;).
How dare you, post-Olympic Worlds are awesome :D

Euros also requires considerable travel time for many skaters - for example, for 2018 European Champions Javier Fernandez and Papadakis/Cizeron.
 

Frau Muller

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Four Cs has become the premier ISU regional competition since the late ‘00s. The fact that Four Cs was being minimized for so many years was (mostly covert) racist thinking. Yeah, talk about the schedule...that it occurred too close to Olympics...but who made the schedule?
 
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Japanfan

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I have never seen 4CC as inferior to Euros - excepting that people at Euros seems happy to :40beers: into the wee hours!

I don't think it is any less prestigious than Euros, actually. Sure it may not share the tradition of Euros, but it's a new competition. So what? Doesn't make it inferior.

I love both comps. Don't think we'll see either this year. :(
 

Weve3

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By certain snobby fans who think that unless something's been going for 50 years it's not worthy of respect.


Skaters almost never choose not to go to 4CC except in Olympic years. That's still pretty prestigious.


Who's done that, other than Ashley Wagner, in recent years? Pretty much no-one. This is a myth that continues to be perpetuated by fans who for some reason do not want 4CC to get any kind of "prestige" (maybe because they're scared of people realising it's the much better competition?)


Again, by certain snobby fans.

Something can be around for years and be garbage, while something newer can be prestigious. 4CC has been the better comp for years now.
I hope the rest of your day is as pleasant as you are. :drama: :summer:


I've never seen anyone mock Kevin Reynolds' 4CC win. Sarah Meier's European championship is quite possibly the most fairytale ending I've ever seen in sports
💯% That was a truly wonderful moment.


And let's be honest. Worlds is a consolation event once every four years;).
:lol: Yeah. :saint:
 

mjb52

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Worlds after Olympics is often my favorite, good opportunity back in the day for skaters stuck "waiting their turn" in dance to pick up medals. For those of us who like surprises and unexpected medalists in general (#ttw lol), post Olympics Worlds are a great opportunity for weird shit to happen.
 

jenny12

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Four Cs has become the premier ISU regional competition since the late ‘00s. The fact that Four Cs was being minimized for so many years was (mostly covert) racist thinking. Yeah, talk about the schedule...that it occurred too close to Olympics...but who made the schedule?

I enjoyed 4CC as much as the next person but there’s nothing racist about thinking it’s a lesser competition. Saying so is beyond ridiculous and shows an immense misunderstanding of what the term racist means.

I think both 4CC and Europeans are prestigious and it is very disappointing that they will likely not take place this year. However bringing in charges of racism when talking about the perception of a skating competition considering the police brutality and actual examples or racism occurring in the news today is beyond ridiculous.
 
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Weve3

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It wasn't so long ago (time moves quickly) when they announced a Grand Prix Series for figure skating and ice dance was to be added to the regular season; people were rolling their eyes then and saying it would never catch on. Well, it did, and so too with 4CC. However, it can take time for people to warm up to things, and some never really do. My point is that you still have some complacency toward the competition with nothing to do with half of what dedicated posters @ FSU have suggested, e.g., racism? Are you kidding me?! That's ridiculous – absolutely ridiculous.

I also believe that many of you know how important Europeans are to the skaters who qualify to compete there every year. Many will move heaven and earth to attend. I would like to see that happen with 4CC. I do not think it is quite there yet, but it could get there very soon.

I think too many have done a rather unusual deep dive into my original comment that has been seriously taken out of context and placed it into whatever direction or concerns their minds entertain. Some of those thoughts and opinions are most certainly not mine.

There have been many good points from posters, but do realize when someone says a competition or event has had struggles, it is not meant to demean the event, the athletes, or anything else; it is merely something that has occurred (imo) with 4CC. 4CC stumbled coming out of the gate, just like the GPS did for a while. Not all skaters feel that 4CC is an end-all competition, whereas some enjoy it. Skaters used to skip GP events on occasion, too, especially in the early days, but now look at it.
 

jlai

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Skaters almost never choose not to go to 4CC except in Olympic years. That's still pretty prestigious.


Who's done that, other than Ashley Wagner, in recent years? Pretty much no-one. This is a myth that continues to be perpetuated by fans who for some reason do not want 4CC to get any kind of "prestige" (maybe because they're scared of people realising it's the much better competition?)
Nathan hasn't been for 2 years, but he has school.
 

MacMadame

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Nathan hasn't been for 2 years, but he has school.
I would say every year at least one US skater who could go to 4CC's chooses not to. Yes, the level of competition has improved quite a bit since it started, but it's still not considered a "must do" event by many. They do it if it fits into their plans and goals for the season.

I have seen signs that Euros is trending that way as well so I'm not sure it's solely a 4CCs thing. OTOH, any competition which includes skaters from 4 different continents is going to involve extensive travel for a large portion of them compared to a competition which only covers athletes from one continent, regardless of a few here and there who train in the US or Canada.
 

Aussie Willy

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Indeed, the belief that Eurovision is necessarily campy betrays a misunderstanding of the event. What appeals to people really varies and a lot of it isn't remotely campy; Duncan Laurence certainly wasn't, and neither were most of last year's top ten.

Have any 4CC skaters used Eurovision music? I know Bychenko has, and obviously Plushenko, um, skated at Eurovision.
I have seen kids here skate to Fairytale :) Always makes me smile.
 

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