2025 NHK Trophy Free Dance PBP - Hmmm for the Weekend

[Icetalavista]

Questions on two teams…

Taschlers (specifically, Taschlerova). I am a fan of this fast, powerful team. I want to pick the right words here, esp as someone who’s had body issues. It may be the absence of skirts this year, but Taschlerova seems to look larger this year. I don’t know if it’s simply because she has the type of build of say Jocelyn Roberson the gymnast, or if she has gained weight. But she seemed to have some difficulty with flexibility, and I wonder if Filip has a large enuf build in relation to her to continue lifting safely. I am also a fan of Madison Hubbell and her lush athletic build, so it’s not that I am biased toward extreme thinness in women ice dancers. Thoughts?

Shibs: there seem to be two scenarios in which their avoidance of competition until NHK seems to make sense in terms of a “comeback”: either they have or are seeking more Japanese marketing opportunities, or they simply wanted to prove to themselves that they could still skate at an international level, especially after the medical issues Maia’s had. Their strategy makes no sense if they actually had the goal of going to the Olys again. Thoughts?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I think engaging in a comeback is extremely difficult and usually we see it every Olympic cycle in some form. Keegan is having issues.. he won’t even be the top three of Canadian man, the Shibs, in the case of Guillaume and LFB she has been ice dancing up until this past year, and he’s only been away for four years and was an Olympic champion.

Also Sui and Han appear a bit rusty but as they should, I think if they were going to do a comeback you do it the year before the Olympics or if you do the Olympic cycle you get out there and start competing in August and September if possible.

 

[Karen-W]

Taschlers (specifically, Taschlerova). I am a fan of this fast, powerful team. I want to pick the right words here, esp as someone who’s had body issues. It may be the absence of skirts this year, but Taschlerova seems to look larger this year. I don’t know if it’s simply because she has the type of build of say Jocelyn Roberson the gymnast, or if she has gained weight. But she seemed to have some difficulty with flexibility, and I wonder if Filip has a large enuf build in relation to her to continue lifting safely. I am also a fan of Madison Hubbell and her lush athletic build, so it’s not that I am biased toward extreme thinness in women ice dancers. Thoughts?

I don't think Natalie has gained any weight this season - she's always had a zaftig figure - but her costume designer when they were with Zanni at YGA was much more adept at giving her costumes that flattered her figure. She's not slim by ice dancing standards and her costumes this season are calling attention to her more pear-shaped natural figure by adding a bunch of unnecessary fabric at her hips. Her FD costume would be infinitely better without the peplum around her waist and the less said about the short fabric strips hanging off the waist of her RD costume the better. She told Mark Hanretty that she's been involved in the costume process this season, but that doesn't give us much info - is she designing/making her own costumes entirely or giving some sketch ideas to a seamstress who doesn't have enough sense or tact to politely steer Natalie in a more flattering direction?

 

[viennese]

Now THAT is a Moulin Rouge program.

I love this team. Even cooler, this Moulin Rouge program goes for different and very danceable music cuts.

 

[PRlady]

Questions on two teams…

Taschlers (specifically, Taschlerova). I am a fan of this fast, powerful team. I want to pick the right words here, esp as someone who’s had body issues. It may be the absence of skirts this year, but Taschlerova seems to look larger this year. I don’t know if it’s simply because she has the type of build of say Jocelyn Roberson the gymnast, or if she has gained weight. But she seemed to have some difficulty with flexibility, and I wonder if Filip has a large enuf build in relation to her to continue lifting safely. I am also a fan of Madison Hubbell and her lush athletic build, so it’s not that I am biased toward extreme thinness in women ice dancers. Thoughts?

Shibs: there seem to be two scenarios in which their avoidance of competition until NHK seems to make sense in terms of a “comeback”: either they have or are seeking more Japanese marketing opportunities, or they simply wanted to prove to themselves that they could still skate at an international level, especially after the medical issues Maia’s had. Their strategy makes no sense if they actually had the goal of going to the Olys again. Thoughts?

I think you’re saying what many are thinking. Unfortunately, her brother is lean verging on skinny and it accentuates the issue. Madison H with Zack had the advantage of a tall and powerfully built partner, whatever his other liabilities. But while I was watching Lilah and Lewis I thought it helps to be naturally petite as she is with a not-big partner, and with Wolf/Tsar I thought he looks much better with a tall slim partner than he did with little Bella.

Visual matching is really important in dance. All these years later I think Madi C is too short for Evan! The best teams overcome size issues but it’s still a problem, I think G/F have always been unconsciously penalized for it and we know what Kaitlin Hawayek put up with.

 

[Alilou]

I think you’re saying what many are thinking. Unfortunately, her brother is lean verging on skinny and it accentuates the issue. Madison H with Zack had the advantage of a tall and powerfully built partner, whatever his other liabilities. But while I was watching Lilah and Lewis I thought it helps to be naturally petite as she is with a not-big partner, and with Wolf/Tsar I thought he looks much better with a tall slim partner than he did with little Bella.

Visual matching is really important in dance. All these years later I think Madi C is too short for Evan! The best teams overcome size issues but it’s still a problem, I think G/F have always been unconsciously penalized for it and we know what Kaitlin Hawayek put up with.

Sadly I think Taschlerovi will be penalized for it too. The judges to were brought up in the same cauldron of cultural conditioning as the rest of us (like @Icetalavista I've has body image issues all my life) that says thinner is better, especially in skating, and even more especially in ice dance.
Ideally they could each find a new partner who are a better match physically for the cutthroat and rigid world of ice dance.

 

[Karen-W]

Sadly I think Taschlerovi will be penalized for it too. The judges to were brought up in the same cauldron of cultural conditioning as the rest of us (like @Icetalavista I've has body image issues all my life) that says thinner is better, especially in skating, and even more especially in ice dance.
Ideally they could each find a new partner who are a better match physically for the cutthroat and rigid world of ice dance.

Well, it probably doesn't help that a lot of their elements in the FD looked sloppy and not fully trained, plus some of the choices seemed obviously designed to hide the fact that he's not strong enough to handle her in some of the more acrobatic type of lifts that usually garner higher GOE.

 

[PRlady]

Sadly I think Taschlerovi will be penalized for it too. The judges to were brought up in the same cauldron of cultural conditioning as the rest of us (like @Icetalavista I've has body image issues all my life) that says thinner is better, especially in skating, and even more especially in ice dance.
Ideally they could each find a new partner who are a better match physically for the cutthroat and rigid world of ice dance.

Oh I berate myself for noticing but I can’t seem to ignore it. I have body issues too, and I’ve never weighed more than my current weight of 150 at 5’6” so it’s not a health issue, it’s pure vanity. You would think a woman turning 70 who gained a few pounds from stopping smoking would be beyond all that, but noooooo…

Anyway, the Taschlers would do better with other partners visually, but they seem very close and committed to the partnership. I’ll just concentrate on finding the right guy for Caroline Green when Michael retires.

 

[Alilou]

Oh I berate myself for noticing but I can’t seem to ignore it. I have body issues too, and I’ve never weighed more than my current weight of 150 at 5’6” so it’s not a health issue, it’s pure vanity. You would think a woman turning 70 who gained a few pounds from stopping smoking would be beyond all that, but noooooo…

Anyway, the Taschlers would do better with other partners visually, but they seem very close and committed to the partnership. I’ll just concentrate on finding the right guy for Caroline Green when Michael retires.

This is also me, only I'm 75, and will never be thin enough (though I'm finally more relaxed about it than I was when younger) - and yes, it's pure vanity. We're told over and over what's attractive and what isn't and it's pretty much impossible to not buy into it.
In Samoa the young women are slender, but as they get older, and have babies, and live on a starch heavy diet, they get bigger and bigger, so that all the older (and old) women are quite large. They think nothing of it. It is the accepted norm in that culture. We went to a local charismatic church service as part of our foray into the Samoan culture. I got talking with several of the women there and one of them asked me how old I was (about 67 at the time) and her response was - in a surprised voice - and you're still small! Would that it was so accepted in western cultures, and we could all just relax and focus on health and being happy with the way we are.

 

[Sally1214]

Catching up on free dance. Thoughts on first flight.

Orihara/Pirinen - Oh, I absolutely LOVE this team. They're FUN! Right from their opening pose, I was totally buying into the program. I know some of you think they're over the top/ridiculous, etc. and you're entitled to your opinions. But, for me, any dance couple who make me smile THIS much is golden. In a world where practically everything we hear/see is so negative, Yuka and Juho put me firmly in my happy place. I think they were born to entertain.

Fabbri/Ayer - Beautiful program to Leave a Light On. I don't think they could have performed it much better than they did. The stationary lift position was gorgeous. In total agreement that Paul's top has to go .... it's very unattractive on him. Did he not stand sideways in front of a mirror?

Yoshida/Morida - Rough start for this couple. Unusual to see that kind of fallout on a lift like that. Glad they were able to pull it together for a pretty decent second half of the program. Shame they couldn't have done a little better in front of their home audience.

Janse van Rensburg/Steffan - I really enjoyed their Spanish themed program. Good speed. Complicated but smoothly executed lifts. What's not to like?

Shibutani/Shibutani - "Fix You" is my favorite and most memorable FD from this team and her tears at the end just touched my heart. Not as brilliant as when they did it long ago but still very moving and well skated. Good for them.

So, that's it for the first flight. I'll continue with the 2nd flight after dinner with hubby and then move on to Men's FS while he's watching the Leafs hockey game. I just have to say ... what a wonderful way to spend a rainy Saturday afternoon and evening.

 

[Jammers]

I think engaging in a comeback is extremely difficult and usually we see it every Olympic cycle in some form. Keegan is having issues.. he won’t even be the top three of Canadian man, the Shibs, in the case of Guillaume and LFB she has been ice dancing up until this past year, and he’s only been away for four years and was an Olympic champion.

Also Sui and Han appear a bit rusty but as they should, I think if they were going to do a comeback you do it the year before the Olympics or if you do the Olympic cycle you get out there and start competing in August and September if possible.

Virtue and Moir showed how you return to competition you don't just skate on your reputation in an Olympic year but come back at least one season before the Olympics.

 

[Marta24]

Mark mentioned an injury Taschlerova had in the off-season, so this might also explain why they don't look as well trained.
Coaching changes sometimes also take time to lead to better results. Where I already saw an improvement are their twizzles. They are more solid than in the last season.

In the last 2 seasons the Taschlers had the tendency to skate very well in the GP season while having messy skates when the big competitions came along, especially at Worlds, so I'm kind of glad to see that there is still work to do. They need to be a bit careful to not build up the perception with the judges that the Mrazeks are getting closer to overtake them as Czech's #1 since they are getting similar scores right now. But since the Mrazeks are incredibly inconsistent, I don't see them yet as an imminent threat to Taschlers #1 status.

 

[MacMadame]

I think engaging in a comeback is extremely difficult and usually we see it every Olympic cycle in some form. Keegan is having issues.. he won’t even be the top three of Canadian man, the Shibs, in the case of Guillaume and LFB she has been ice dancing up until this past year, and he’s only been away for four years and was an Olympic champion.

Also, wasn't Cizeron pretty active in skating in ways that had him on the ice during much of that time? I know Gabby was.

I think you’re saying what many are thinking. I think you’re saying what many are thinking.

Honestly, I don't think she looks bigger at all. The FD costume is unflattering, sure, but she seems the same to me as it's not like former costumes didn't occasionally have unflattering lines in certain positions.

Btw, I'm pretty sure she's tiny in person. Just an endomorph and not an ectomorph.

 

[Sally1214]

Okay, now to finish off the FD

Wolfkostin/Tsarevski - Super start to the final flight. For some reason, I'm totally unfamiliar with this couple but thoroughly enjoyed their performance. "Fresh out of juniors," are they? That would explain why I don't know them. Aww .... Dimitry sitting with his eyes closed in the K/C waiting for the scores. You did well, kids.

Taschlerova/Taschler - No really into this Matrix program. I'm seeing a lot of criticism of their costumes but Mark did say that she(they) designed thm themselves, so I guess that's on them. I did feel sorry for them in the K/C...they were so disappointed. Skating is such a tough sport at times.

Green/Parsons - Well, that was different .... wasn't really a hit with me but they skated it well. Some of the lift positions were ugly while others were great, so a mixed bag there. I liked Caroline's dress but Michael's shirt could go in the trash can on the way out. I'm totally over the cut-out backs on men's shirts ... can't remember one I've liked so far. I'm happy for them that they got to skate their FD here, so there's that. And they make the podum, so good for them.

Guignard/Fabbri - Much better skate than their last outing. Babs seems happy with their scores, so there's that. Charlene was so emotional at the end ... the stress these skaters put on themselves. What a HUGE relief it's going to be for several of these skaters when the Olympics are over and they retire from active competition. I'm thinking that, after so many years in the sport, "life after skating" is going to sound sweet to many of them.

Fear/Gibson - LOVE this program. Cannot wait to see it performed in Sheffield where the roof should be lifted a few cm/in. at the end. LOVE the music and costumes (and, NO, Lewis should NOT be wearing a kilt).

 

[Aussie Willy]

I just watched Pirihara (can we officially call them that) to see their FD. Love it.

They certainly are not quite up there with the technical side. Things are a little bit rough and less refined.

However they sell the hell out of their program. Great choice of music and they work with it. It is entertaining and memorable. And every move has meaning to the music and excellent characterisation. As a strategy for a skater or team, if your technical skills are not quite with the top of the field, do what you do best and that is to entertain and show your personality. They make me want to watch them.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Natalie Taschlerova is not "zaftig", "full figured", or "overweight". This kind of harping on size with any female skater whose build isn't literally waifish is honestly unhealthy.

Her costumes this year are unflattering. That doesn't mean she's anything other than a person who would be considered small in a normal population of people.

 

[just tuned in]

Natalie Taschlerova is not "zaftig", "full figured", or "overweight". This kind of harping on size with any female skater whose build isn't literally waifish is honestly unhealthy.

Her costumes this year are unflattering. That doesn't mean she's anything other than a person who would be considered small in a normal population of people.

The last thing I want to do is fight about it, and I hope that she knows enough to avoid fan sites, but she is indeed carrying more weight than would appear to be ideal. If it is not an issue for her brother (who lifts her) it is not an issue for me. But please allow us to see what we see.

 

[Bunny Hop]

I am way behind on NHK but:

I would like to award Orihara/Pirinen extra points for doing Moulin Rouge without using Tango de Roxanne. And for completely taking the piss out of the choreo character sequence (even though I would generally prefer less writhing on the ice). The skating itself wasn't their best, but their placement reflects that. Happy to watch them as entertainers, regardless of where they end up.

Fabbri/Ayer: I am sick of this song and it hasn't even been used that much. And the bottom of his shirt flapping around is distracting. That is all.

Yoshida/Morita: Oh no. That was not good.

Van Rensburg/Steffan: Really enjoyed that and the choreography is excellent! Some bobbles but hope they continue to improve. Glad he's stopped wearing Star Trek uniform shirts.

Shibutanis: I agree with everyone who said her hair looks odd. Otherwise, it was fine but I don't see how this is in any way better than the other US teams.

Wolfkostin/Tsarevski: Not familiar with this team but the lifts were very good, and loved that ending. I'll put them down as a team to watch.

Taschlers: I will join any GoFundMe to buy her a new designers/costume (and persuade her not to contribute to the design process). Maybe it's just that I don't like Matrix programs in general (too many from Joubert) but this program didn't seem to flow well. There were good elements but it didn't hang together that well.

Green/Parsons: This is a team I should like on paper but have never been able to get into, but I did enjoy this for being a bit different. Definitely some things to smooth out (no doubt lost some training due to his injury at the previous GP). Glad I don't have to listen to that music every day though!

Guignard/Fabbri: Eek on the twizzles, but otherwise this was much better. I like the softness, fluidity and use of holds.

Fear/Gibson: Also much improved this time. They seemed faster than usual. They've certainly embraced the new trends in ice dance and I've finally reached the point where I'm not opposed to them gettting an Oympic medal.