1996 Canadian nationals - Women’s free skate

Sonata

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Over 20 years later, I still have PTSD (post-traumatic skating disorder) over this competition.

The decision to send Robinson to worlds set back the ladies' program for years. If she had skated first among the three, she would not have won. Her skating skills were so poor. I believe this is one of the competitions that made Skate Canada later base their worlds team decisions on "body of work"... which led them to send Robinson again years later ahead of Phaneuf, even though Robinson had skated 4th in the FP! Gah!!! (Wrong decision, in my view.)

As for Josee, I think she would have been top 10 at worlds, as she always had in the past. She had great skating skills, beautiful edges, and consistently delivered in the SP at worlds. She did not skate the FS well all year but still made GP final. Her Nationals FS performance was also very unusual - she usually did not tend to double or pop jumps. When stressed, Josee tended to go for the triple jumps anyways and risk a fall, which I always admired, but she was sometimes mocked in the media for her falls. She made a comment about not wanting to be seen falling at this competition at the SP press conference, and I think this explains her FP performance.

Her big disadvantage that year was her long program. I don't know why she and her team picked this music - it did not showcase her biggest strengths, which were her bubbly personality, joyful skating and connection to the audience. Even her costume had a stiff collar, which made her look less relaxed.

On another note, Josee has mentioned how kind Susan Humphreys was to her that night and how much Susan supported her to get through the medal ceremony.
 

alchemy void

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Can we talk about 99 Canadian ladies?

Anyone else retroactively outraged Derochie placed third with 5 clean triples? :lol: I get that her packaging did her no favors this season. Why her coaching team tried to turn her into a lame copy of Josee is beyond me. And the music is impossible to skate to, even for a musical skater. But still, how did this lose so convincingly to Bellemare, even on the tech merit? She only had three clean triples. And it's not like there was much choreography there, even if the music was infinitely better than Derochie.

I did like Nadine White's energy and blue sparkly dress.

And Jen Robinson deserves credit for really improving her presentation and jumps in the latter part of her career. (That is a passive-aggressive way for me to call this program boring and slow). Still, this was definitely the best-choreographed program of the night, but she looked so slow, and the lutz and toe were both two-footed. I guess I would have put Robinson over Derochie overall, based on presentation, but it would have been close. #justice4derochie
 

gkelly

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Sorry if this is off topic, but posts in this thread drew me here:

What were the actual short program results at 1996 Worlds in the lower part of the field?

Wikipedia has


I.e., two skaters (Robinson and Fontana) listed as placing 24th, and no one listed as 21st in the SP. Was one of those two actually 21st, or are there other errors here as well?

Also no FS result given here for Fontana. Her own Wikipedia page lists her result as 24th overall.
 

Maximillian

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Canadask8er

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Can we talk about 99 Canadian ladies?

Anyone else retroactively outraged Derochie placed third with 5 clean triples? :lol: I get that her packaging did her no favors this season. Why her coaching team tried to turn her into a lame copy of Josee is beyond me. And the music is impossible to skate to, even for a musical skater. But still, how did this lose so convincingly to Bellemare, even on the tech merit? She only had three clean triples. And it's not like there was much choreography there, even if the music was infinitely better than Derochie.

I did like Nadine White's energy and blue sparkly dress.

And Jen Robinson deserves credit for really improving her presentation and jumps in the latter part of her career. (That is a passive-aggressive way for me to call this program boring and slow). Still, this was definitely the best-choreographed program of the night, but she looked so slow, and the lutz and toe were both two-footed. I guess I would have put Robinson over Derochie overall, based on presentation, but it would have been close. #justice4derochie

When I skated with Angela at the Cricket Club the next season, she mentioned something about Marina Zoueva only taking like 30 mins to choreograph her FP for 1998/99 season. I thought she skated better in 1999 than her winning 1998 National title! Seeing her land triple triples and triple lutz consistently in 1999/00 I was hoping for her to reach the top of the podium again in 2000.

Although I always thought 1999 was a turning point for Canadian ladies. Seeing them try harder jumps and sometimes landing them was a far cry from being in Hamilton and watching that event live in 1998. People were clapping for spins!!!
 

Sonata

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I liked Angela Derochie, but I remember watching 1999 Canadian Ladies and being struck by Annie Bellemare and thinking she should have won. She landed a crisp triple flip, and Derochie didn't do lutz or flip. Derochie's spins were also really slow. I also remember speaking to other people who had watched the competition the next day (albeit, that wasn't a lot of people lol) and it was consistently, "That skater who skated to Man in the Iron Mask was really good" - Bellemare left an impression. I wish she had switched coaches sooner, but there wasn't a lot of choice in Quebec back then. She's probably the only skater I remember improving by leaps and bounds with Joanne MacLeod. Unfortunately, she also had a chronic injury that set back her training time a lot.

That's unfortunate about Zoueva's choreography. I didn't remember Derochie wearing those gloves. What a disservice to her to make her wear a costume that is so reminiscent of Josee Chouinard. And yellow! It's so hard to pull that colour off.
 

Erin

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Yes! I watched this one about a week and a half ago and am still not sure what to think about it.

Anyone else retroactively outraged Derochie placed third with 5 clean triples? :lol: I get that her packaging did her no favors this season. Why her coaching team tried to turn her into a lame copy of Josee is beyond me. And the music is impossible to skate to, even for a musical skater. But still, how did this lose so convincingly to Bellemare, even on the tech merit? She only had three clean triples. And it's not like there was much choreography there, even if the music was infinitely better than Derochie.
I think Derochie suffered from the "must have triple lutz/triple flip" problem. Having the difficult jumps was weighted so heavily back then that having one two-footed triple lutz was worth more than a number of less difficult jumps even landed cleanly.

While I agree with you that this program was not great and didn't suit her (and it's sad that Zueva spent so little time on it), I actually still think that her packaging was an improvement that year from the year before. This was the first year she actually looked like she cared about things in between the elements.

And Jen Robinson deserves credit for really improving her presentation and jumps in the latter part of her career. (That is a passive-aggressive way for me to call this program boring and slow). Still, this was definitely the best-choreographed program of the night, but she looked so slow, and the lutz and toe were both two-footed. I guess I would have put Robinson over Derochie overall, based on presentation, but it would have been close. #justice4derochie
I agree that Robinson really did improve over her career, although she was always slow...I remember seeing her at 2004 Canadians and she was absolutely crawling across the ice. I think that this year was the beginning of the improvement though. It was the first year she worked with Lori Nichol, and the step up in sophistication really showed. I like her short from that year much more than the long though. I also found it interesting watching her at 1999 4CC that she was able to land the jumps on one foot a lot more in practice, so I assumed it was a confidence issue that caused her to always two-foot them in competition. I was hoping that after 2000 Worlds, when she had the injury that made it too painful to two-foot the jumps, that she would be able to use the momentum from that and keep skating well, but the next season was back to the two-foot landings (and programs I didn't care for). I've always been curious what changed for the 2001-02 and 02-03 seasons that she was able to do in competition what she did in practice.
 

screech

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On another note, Josee has mentioned how kind Susan Humphreys was to her that night and how much Susan supported her to get through the medal ceremony.
I was at those Canadians and was in the hotel elevator with Josee. She was still in tears at that point, being comforted by Jean Michel Bombardier, but was incredibly gracious.
 

coppertop1

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1996 was definitely the low point in Canadian ladies' skating. Much as I loved Susan Humphreys, Annie Bellemare and Angela Derochie, things really didn't start to turn around again until Joannie Rochette and Cynthia Phaneuf entered the scene 7 or 8 years later.
Jennifer Robinson got Canada back in the top ten and carried Women's skating in Canada on her shoulders. But she wasn't ready in 1996. It wasn't her fault. Josee didn't face stiff competition from anyone. I think that her disaster in a weak field really hurt their faith in her.
 

ErikWilliam

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I forgot just how bad the Canadian ladies were back then. I wondered why CTV never hired Sandra Bezic for commentary, but I think it is most likely she turned down the gig considering the situation. Even perky Barb Underhill couldn’t hide her disgust.
 

essence_of_soy

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Jennifer Robinson got Canada back in the top ten and carried Women's skating in Canada on her shoulders. But she wasn't ready in 1996. It wasn't her fault. Josee didn't face stiff competition from anyone. I think that her disaster in a weak field really hurt their faith in her.
Agreed. Robinson was practically fresh out of juniors with very little senior experience when she made the 1995 World Team, too.

In 1996, Jennifer sort of won the ladies' title by default. It was nice to see her develop into a reliable and solid international competitor.

Speaking of Josee's meltdown, it makes me wonder with Kaetlyn Osmond turning professional, if Gabrielle Daleman found it difficult to push herself without a national rival on the homefront.
 
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Dave of the North

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I think it was Louis Stong that related a story about being approached by a judge who would boost Josee if Louis could get a Canadian judge to help that judge's skater. His response was something like " If Josee is on she doesn't need the judge's help, if she isn't on the judges can't help her".

Side question - I take it you tube is not stringent about music or broadcaster rights on the older skating videos?
 

Erin

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Side question - I take it you tube is not stringent about music or broadcaster rights on the older skating videos?
Sort of. Every single video I've posted has at least some of the music that is copyright protected - however, in most cases, the copyright holder has allowed the video to be public, but my YouTube channel can't make money from the ads (which I wasn't planning to do anyway) - the owner of the music gets any ad money. Occasionally a piece of music will come up that will result in the video being blocked in certain countries or blocked completely - usually Prince/The Beatles/Michael Jackson in exhibitions or dance programs where lyrics were allowed. In those cases, I muted the sound on that section so that the rest of the video can be made public. So if you come across a video where part of the sound is missing, it's not an error with the video, it's to deal with the music copyright problem. The only issue I've had with video copyright problems was that a couple of the 2011 Canadians videos had clips from NHK in them during the part where the commentators were previewing the event, and NHK was blocking those videos. So I cut the clips and the rest of the videos were able to proceed. So again, if the videos appear disjointed, that's why.

I assume that older videos are less a big deal than current videos and I don't have DVDs of anything more recent than 2014. I think the one item that could be pursued more stringently would be Olympics, as I know the IOC goes after YouTubers, but I also know that there are lots of Olympic YouTube videos out there...so I'll have to think about whether I upload any Olympic videos. I am taking a few precautions, as everything is backed up on a hard drive, so at least I don't need to re-rip everything if the channel is taken down. And the reason I used a pseud for the account rather than my regular google account is I didn't want to risk losing access to my google account in the event that my channel was taken down for copyright strikes.

Maybe way more information than you wanted to know, but there you have it.
 

Dave of the North

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Sort of. Every single video I've posted has at least some of the music that is copyright protected - however, in most cases, the copyright holder has allowed the video to be public, but my YouTube channel can't make money from the ads (which I wasn't planning to do anyway) - the owner of the music gets any ad money.

Maybe way more information than you wanted to know, but there you have it.
Thanks - very useful info- I've been transferring all my VCR tapes to DVD (my lockdown project) and then converting them to video files on my computer, and eventually I want to upload them somewhere. I've done 1985 to 1992 (I'm on box 5 of 15 boxes of tapes) and also converted my DVD's from 2006 and 2007, almost completed 2008. I stopped transferring stuff to DVD in 2013 as the copy protection was preventing it. Though I have a bunch of stuff I transferred to VCR tape in 2011-2012.
 

Erin

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Thanks - very useful info- I've been transferring all my VCR tapes to DVD (my lockdown project) and then converting them to video files on my computer, and eventually I want to upload them somewhere.
I look forward to seeing what you upload! It's been fun watching my own old stuff, but I also love watching what other people have too.
 

Habs

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I look forward to seeing what you upload! It's been fun watching my own old stuff, but I also love watching what other people have too.
Last night I watched 1994 Canadian pairs and dance, and 1993 ladies (which I had never seen).
Thank you, @Erin, I couldn't be happier!

:encore::encore:
 

Erin

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Last night I watched 1994 Canadian pairs and dance, and 1993 ladies (which I had never seen).
1993 Canadian ladies was the event that made me become a fan of figure skating. I watched that skate from Josee so many times! I always cry when I see the audience standing up before she is even finished. (And then I somehow lost the videotape...thank goodness for tape trading in the early 2000s to replenish my collection!)
 

honey

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I just re watched 93 ladies as well! I have this one on a well worn tape from my childhood, but your upload has some programs that I was missing! I had never seen Tanya Bingert’s sp from this event. Love the 2T+3T! I loved her short from 94 nationals and I was pleased to see it was the same program in 93. Too bad the long always seemed to get her. If she had continued into 1995 it seems likely she would have been able to win the title. Did she retire immediately after 94?
 

Rock2

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You're welcome :) Let me know if you have requests...at the moment I'm working my way through everything I have for Canadian Nationals, but if you are looking for something else specific and I have it, I can switch things up.
OMG I'm just dialing into your YouTube page. I feel like I just struck oil. THANK YOU.

The pand**ic can go on for a few more months (as long as no one dies and people get their jobs back). I have plenty to keep me occupied. :watch:
 

ErikWilliam

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Just watched Josee’s 1993 performance. I was tearing up! At least she had that amazing one experience in her career.
 

Erin

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I feel like an honorary Canadian watching these. :respec:
When we are allowed to get together in person inside again, you will have to come over for a Canadian-themed watch party. Ideally also with some specifically Canadian snacks, although that could be much longer before I can head up there to pick up some of those.
 

Habs

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OMG I'm just dialing into your YouTube page. I feel like I just struck oil. THANK YOU.

The pand**ic can go on for a few more months (as long as no one dies and people get their jobs back). I have plenty to keep me occupied. :watch:
I told Mr. Habs this morning that he should plan on spending the weekend playing video games in the basement because I'll be busy. :lol:
 

VGThuy

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Skate Canada must have been a wreck when Josee won the bronze at the GPF a month or so later. Even if her performance wasn’t the best, a medal at an international competition full of the season’s best competitors who will be vying for world medals/title a month later is a medal.
 

alchemy void

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When we are allowed to get together in person inside again, you will have to come over for a Canadian-themed watch party. Ideally also with some specifically Canadian snacks, although that could be much longer before I can head up there to pick up some of those.
It's a date!

I'll do my best to channel my girl Debbi Wilkes for commentary and analysis throughout the evening. I sure hope we get to watch that cutie patootie Ian Martinez. :lol:
 
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Colonel Green

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Skate Canada must have been a wreck when Josee won the bronze at the GPF a month or so later. Even if her performance wasn’t the best, a medal at an international competition full of the season’s best competitors who will be vying for world medals/title a month later is a medal.
Josee’s whole career was a constant source of frustration (to her, I’m sure, most of all, but definitely to the fed) — she was the biggest might-have-been in the long bleak period between Liz hanging up her skates and Joannie coming to the rescue.
 

Rock2

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Skate Canada must have been a wreck when Josee won the bronze at the GPF a month or so later. Even if her performance wasn’t the best, a medal at an international competition full of the season’s best competitors who will be vying for world medals/title a month later is a medal.
You could argue the nationals result led to Canada not sending a woman to Nagano.

Yes, I'm sure SC was a wreck over this. If memory serves, this result led to the change in criteria for world's selection from purely nationals results to more 'body of work' language. Had those criteria been in place, Josee would have been selected based on her two GP medals (in those days GPF happened after nationals).
 

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