2026 Olys Free Dance PBP - Whale, Are We Ready For Some Bull Sheet Scores?

[Wyliefan]

Lajoie/Lagha finishing 10th here, after being 5th at Worlds two years ago, is a tough result for them, and tough to see as someone who likes them … I agree they need to have a pretty big think about what happens next, and what changes need to be made.

They need to connect. I've been saying this for years and years. Maybe I should call them up and tell them. You don't win the big titles by skating like two singles skaters who happen to be on the ice at the same time.

Even my dad spotted it when I watched the team FD with my parents, and this was without my having said one word about it. I know we've been joking about the every-four-years fans, but every once in a while some of them do have an "out of the mouths of babes" moment.

 

[skateblessing]

These misfortunes have been great indeed. Have you considered taking the matter up in The Hague?

No. Even if you like the team that is winning such judging is not okay no matter what. If it was Bock that got away with +3 and 4 on such set of twizzles I would not have been fine with it either. It´s totally useless to have a judging system that to some extent actually has a chance to judge the technically elements objective, but throw it away the minute a former Olympic gold medalist skates. Not to mention that they chose to apply it more correctly for other teams, but ignore it for others. That is just frustrating.

I see the argument has been used that overall they had the best performance, but that is not an argument to explain how those twizzles were judged. And i´m even leaving out the lift and the steps that also were questionable. You know what? I would have been fine with if they won because they got higher components or some other element that got better marked that actually in fact were well performed, as long as they actually had punished those twizzles. It´s just the fact that they are not even willing to give them any bad marks were it´s deserved. And yes, i´m aware that several other teams, probably including Bock has gotten away with similar things earlier, I´m not fine with either. And that is not a good argument either for FBC to get away with those set of twizzles because others did it earlier. That is just stupid arguments if we want something to happen with this sport.

How long have you been watching skating? There have been many a "wuzrobbed" moments in ice dance along the years. Some of them were very obvious indeed, but this one is definitely not one of them. Unless we are watching different programs.

Skaters continued to skate after Drobiazko Vanagas were robbed several times. And after Fusar Poli won over Anissina Peizerat. There are so many examples.

Maybe not the biggest scandal of wuzrobbed, but IMO the most obvious one to objectively judge and that had an direct impact on the results.

I´m completely aware to that ice dance judging always have been bad and that world ranking and "wait your turn" impacts GOE more then the actual execution of the elements, but I never seen such obvious evidence of the GOE manipulation in my life as long as I have followed ice dance (i´m sure though there is other examples that I just have forgotten by now).

And yes - I know that you should also consider the good sides of one element as well as the bad one when GOE is used, but it´s just mathematically impossible for the execution of this element to be +4 - even if you consider the first part of the twizzles to be a +5 (and as far as I remember Gui was still not synchronized in the first part so that is far stretch), there is no way that could end up with +4 in total by some of the judges, when the other part at best should have been 0 but probably should have been at least -1. This is why it looks so bad, because you can´t even hide it.

To compare it directly with how other teams were judged in the same event, and i´m sure there are other examples that are even better. But from my top of my head: Reitan/Majorov got -1 on their twizzle set in total GOE, with what in my opinion was a smaller step out by Milla in her 2nd set then what Gui did. The first part was really good and synchronized and well executed, but the step out in the 2nd put them on the minus side. I don´t think -1 was so bad in total for that element, because they probably used the tools as they should have, the step out could easily have been judged as -2, but because the first set of twizzles were good the total execution is -1, which is probably how the GOE is intended to be used. It´s not very surprising that lower ranked and early team is getting judged more strictly, but for me it´s just evidence that the judges actually KNOWS how to use the GOE correctly if they want, but chose to ignore it as it pleases them when it comes to certain teams.

 

[peibeck]

And CarPon finished 5th at Worlds last year. So it’s no longer true there’s no movement in dance, but I’m far from sure that the current rankings will hold after the top teams, plus some of the middling ones, retire.

I couldn't remember off the top of my head, which top teams went to Worlds after the last Olympics, but most of them did and then the retirements came.

Will be interesting to see who decides to move on to Prague, or if the shift will start there?

As for LaLa, I love them but I think their choice for the RD was poor (although not as bad as that Austin Powers mess last season) and returning to the White Crow, even though executed beautifully, a missed opportunity to do something new. Sigh. I don't see them leaving IAM though.

 

[annie_mg]

It´s not very surprising that lower ranked and early team is getting judged more strictly, but for me it´s just evidence that the judges actually KNOWS how to use the GOE correctly if they want, but chose to ignore it as it pleases them when it comes to certain teams.

I just love how people conveniently ignore the numerous times Chock and Bates were given gifts in the past 4 years. If you are so appalled by the scoring injustice, then do it on every occasion.

 

[BlueRidge]

I’ve done my part in answering all the text messages from friends asking if the Americans were robbed. No, I said, the French are better skaters, the nature of the judging panel had some impact but in the arena, the choice was clear. I might wish it weren’t so but have no horses to ride…

This seems to be a common claim, that FB&C's win is justified because they are better skaters. Does that mean the result for the Team RD was wrong?

Obviously not, and FB&C didn't win the dance Gold just because they are better skaters. They won based on the performances on the night. And in fact C&B could have won given how close it was even if they are not the better skaters.

I don't have any issue with the result, it seems fair to me, but the need people have to downgrade Chock and Bates as if they could not beat FB&C when in fact they have in the past is really wearing on me.

FB&C won the FD because their performance on the night edged the performance by C&B. You don't win based on your skating skills, you win based on how you perform in the actual event.

 

[skateblessing]

I just love how people conveniently ignore the numerous times Chock and Bates were given gifts in the past 4 years. If you are so appalled by the scoring injustice, then do it on every occasion.

LOL, actually I´m commenting it in my post as well but it´s not my fault that you chose to ignore it. So because I havn´t been mentioning it every time that has happen i´m not allowed to have a opinion about FBC? I´m not exactly thrilled about their scores either.

Btw, FBC had better performance of their FD earlier, but if you can´t admit that they were not at their best during the Olympics FD I don´t know what to tell you.

 

[PRlady]

Yes, their performance was better but it was because it showed off their superior skating skills. Chock’s FD did highlight their skill at storytelling and drama but maybe it wasn’t quite the right story. It was very close.

 

[BlueRidge]

Yes, their performance was better but it was because it showed off their superior skating skills. Chock’s FD did highlight their skill at storytelling and drama but maybe it wasn’t quite the right story. It was very close.

I doubt that would explain it to someone who doesn't understand the scoring system. Non-fans think they can judge who should win based on that team looked best or that team really performed the heck out of that program and I think the thing they need to know is that the scoring system looks at much more fine detail.

What non-fans really need to know is basically, that they are not going to be able to watch and see who should have won without knowing a heck of a lot more about the sport than they would ever want to know. Now granted this isn't a way to win fans to the sport. People want to be able to be casual fans and be able to say I know the judges were right/wrong!

In any case, Chock and Bates came awfully close to beating FB&C and it takes human decisions to make those scores happen. The claim that simply of course FB&C are superior is really a cop out rather than an explanation.

 

[VGThuy]

No matter how it’s sliced, FB/C’s win is going to be seen with an asterisk with general public of a larger country with the biggest media. It’s not fair, but it’s reality. It’s very Berezhnaya/Sikarulidze, where it can be argued the original result was correct. We can argue logically and get into the technicals as to why B/S and now FB/C deserved to win (I agree with both wins).

However, the Olympics are a different beast and it invites “lay fans” and much more media who don’t know a triple toe loop from a twizzle. They watched the event and don’t care about the arguments that we skating fans can make. They saw what they saw and didn’t like what they’d seen. That is what sparked the initial outrage and now the story has spread to non-watchers. It doesn’t help that many notable members of the skating community are backing the outrage as are skating fans. There are notable people defending the result, but it’s pretty clear they’re being out numbered or at least not nearly as vocal. I don’t think the FD win endeared FB/C to the world the way “Bolero” did for T/D or even “Moulin Rouge” did for V/M.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

They need to connect. I've been saying this for years and years. Maybe I should call them up and tell them. You don't win the big titles by skating like two singles skaters who happen to be on the ice at the same time.

The LaLas do have a connection problem although that's getting better. Their packaging often makes them look as young up and comers instead of a podium-vying team (see this year's RD) which is an extra issue because they're short. I also don't think IAM knows what to do with them (I wonder if they'd do better with Scott Moir). There's got to be material that takes advantage of Zach's quirkiness and musical talents. They could also embrace their contrasting personalities and cleverly design programs around that.

 

[BlueRidge]

Also the claim that "no one would care if it weren't the US" which actually is "no one in the US would care if it weren't the US" spit like it was some terrible accusation is kind of weird. South Korea cared a whale of a lot more than anyone else when Yuna Kim was robbed of gold in 2014 than anyone else did.

Its aggravating because the US media takes up more space in the world than it should but its not illogical that US media would focus on US athletes.

And most of it is just an attempt to get audience/readers/listeners/clicks. I find it very annoying because its not a legitimate controversy at all but its actually as far as I can see pretty small potatoes.

 

[BlueRidge]

The LaLas do have a connection problem although that's getting better Their packaging often makes them look as young up and comers instead of a podium-vying team (see this year's RD) which is an extra issue because they're short. I also don't think IAM knows what to do with them (I wonder if they'd do better with Scott Moir). There's got to be material that takes advantage of Zach's quirkiness and musical talents. They could also embrace their contrasting personalities and cleverly design programs around that.

I don't think they've yet had a mature FD program. White Crow is pretty but its not interesting or sophisticated and its probably the best they've done.

I'm puzzled why IAM leaves them with the material they have had. Puzzled and quite disappointed. They are capable of so much more but it feels like they are sinking into a rut instead of making their way to the top, which given their talent they should be capable of.

 

[terisa]

I’m still pissy about Hawayek/Baker not winning Skate America a few years ago. And Hubbell not getting silver in Beijing. I’m mad every competition that Lop/Bri are placed behind R/A and if the Swedes hadn’t managed to get to Milan I’d be mad about that too.

I love ice dance because I can be pissy about so many things that aren’t macro-politics and the state of the world! (And it’s beautiful to watch, of course.)

I'm still pissy about Lang/Tchernyshev wuzrobbeds.... but in the grand scheme of things, ice dancing results are not really worth getting genocide-level pissy about.

That may be heresy here though... so stake me.

 

[Cachoo]

Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and the French fans and media were whining about how they were were robbed? The conversation here and in the American media would be very different.

Oh geez if an American judge had dogged the French the way the French judge dogged the Americans it would have been so much worse. I'd feel so embarrassed as an American figure skating fan. We'd never hear the end of it. We've got enough of a problem now with the idiot bully in the White House. I'm glad the shoe is not on the other foot.

 

[lemondrop]

I’m a decades-long lurker member here but feel compelled to add my 2 cents. I am still pissed that B&B got the gold over Klimova/Pon in 88. And although I really wanted Bock to win and feel so sad for them, I think the French were the superior team.

 

[BlueRidge]

...

I’m a decades-long lurker member here but feel compelled to add my 2 cents. I am still pissed that B&B got the gold over Klimova/Pon in 88.

I love this!

 

[Simone411]

I just love how people conveniently ignore the numerous times Chock and Bates were given gifts in the past 4 years. If you are so appalled by the scoring injustice, then do it on every occasion.

I believe you may be assuming that people have ignored the numerous times Chock and Bates were given gifts in the past 4 years. I'm not one of those people.

If they were given "gifts" this past 4 years, then the French judges must have given them "gifts" the whole time except when it came to the Olympics. The French judge obviously wanted the French to win the Gold and made it so by upping their score. Period.

Here are some statistics for you over the years that Chock and Bates have skated:

Chock and Bates have achieved a similar level of success to Davis and White, matching their record for six U.S. Ice Dance titles and tying them for the most Olympic medals by a U.S. Skater (three all together).

While Davis and White won the 2014 Olympic individual gold, Chock and Bates secured multiple team golds (2022, 2026) and a 2026 individual silver, solidifying their status as historically great American ice dancers.

The only difference is Davis and White won an individual Olympic Gold, and Chock and Bates won an individual Olympic Silver which is in question by several people in the whole U.S., not just here on FSU.

 

[VGThuy]

I can only imagine what a tedious four years 1985-1988 was. I mean Bestemianova/Bukin had an excellent Carmen 1985 FD, and I enjoyed their 1986 FD, but Klimova/Ponomarenko were given no real opportunities to win. I read that K/P actually lost 1986 Worlds by a 5/4 split. Imagine how the trajectory for the rest of that Olympic cycle would have changed had they won. They did win the 1987 OSP. I will say B/B seemed to be the best at compulsories, especially the Killian, or at least, they skated it with the most speed, confidence, and security.

It’s kind of like Chock/Bates except with Christopher Dean coming back with say, Tracy Wilson, in 1988.

 

[skateblessing]

If they are the superior team, the judges still should have punished them for their twizzles. But they didn´t, because that would have had Bock just ahead. I don´t understand why they just didn´t award them more PCS instead, that would have been less obvious. They even reviewed the twizzles, took a level down for Gui, normally they should have adjusted the GOE as well when they reviewed with such a mistake. But I think they realized that couldn´t because that would have "the wrong" result.

I don´t really agree that they so much more superior then the Americans at this stage, sure their edges and skating skills are well above, but there are other aspects as well in components. I don´t think they are as well matched such as Bock that they don´t have the same expression, speed and awareness of each other. These are things that takes some time to adjust. In regards of who deserved the win, I think the Americans had the best performance of the night, so they deserved a high score. If FBC had performed as stellar as them, not so tentative and with those small mistakes, I would have given them the win. But that was not the case, they simply performed not up to their best but still got scored as if they did, and that is what I think is wrong. They didn´t really handle the Olympic pressure like Bock did, but still.. they were given the gold easily.

 

[BlueRidge]

If they are the superior team, the judges still should have punished them for their twizzles. But they didn´t, because that would have had Bock just ahead. I don´t understand why they just didn´t award them more PCS instead, that would have been less obvious. They even reviewed the twizzles, took a level down for Gui, normally they should have adjusted the GOE as well when they reviewed with such a mistake. But I think they realized that couldn´t because that would have "the wrong" result.

IIRC each judge has to give marks. Are they really able to each calculate things to this degree? It just seems unlikely to me.

Maybe they should have adjusted the GOE, I don't know, but I question whether they go through such calculations in the moment of giving out scores.

But then I can't imagine how they do it at all. I need time to think through any decision...

 

[manhn]

FB&C are now like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie to me, but if they weren’t, and they were wuzrobbed by the Americans, maybe Americans would be fine, but the rest of the world? In this economy?

 

[millyskate]

Is it possible to feel hungover from an event that didn’t include drinking? If I feel like this this morning, I can only imagine how the skaters feel.

Whoever posted that the staccato flamenco didn’t lend itself to ice dance as well as the long swooping movements of LB/C (and for that matter G/P) got it right. I think I was unconsciously waiting for a big ta-da moment from Chock and Bates that didn’t happen.

Some very good ice dancers have lost to Cizeron and partner over the last decade, only Virtue and Moir beat them. To me Cizeron is so naturally gifted at what he does that it’s utterly frustrating to compete with him, kinda the Bill Clinton of ice dancers. And Clinton wasn’t the most upstanding human being either.

So I understand how Chock and Bates feel but it couldn’t be helped, they did their best and now have two team golds and an individual silver. They could have ended up like Guinard/Fabbri or Hawayek/Baker or other talented teams who for one reason or another never won an Oly or even a Worlds medal. C’est la vie.

Except Guignard and Fabbri DID win team bronze and their emotion was so incredible because it was so hard earnt.
They leave the games happier than Chock and Bates despite these having a gold.

 

[tony]

If they are the superior team, the judges still should have punished them for their twizzles. But they didn´t, because that would have had Bock just ahead. I don´t understand why they just didn´t award them more PCS instead, that would have been less obvious. They even reviewed the twizzles, took a level down for Gui, normally they should have adjusted the GOE as well when they reviewed with such a mistake. But I think they realized that couldn´t because that would have "the wrong" result.

This is the exact kind of uninformed stuff that simply makes no sense and is getting annoying coming from actual skating journalists- not you.

It needs to stick in people’s minds that the level IS NOT SHOWN to the judges. They don’t know if a twizzle got a level 4 or a base level ‘officially’. They don’t mark their GOE on the level because they don’t know it. In singles skating they don’t even know the level, they just know things like !, q, <, and <<. Or V on spins.

There can be lower level elements that don’t hit all criteria for the top level and still can easily get +5.

 

[Private Citizen]

This is the exact kind of uninformed stuff that simply makes no sense

skateblessing is mixing up the role of the technical panel and the judges, but their larger point stands.

The technical panel reviewed the twizzles and took the level down. They did their job.

The judges had the opportunity to review the twizzles and the lift. We don't know if they did or not. There was a visible lack of unison on the first set and the exit of the twizzles (and FB&C have not managed to do a single set of twizzles in unison in Milano, but that's neither here nor there), and an obvious bobble on the lift. A competent judge should've at least reviewed the twizzles and ideally the lift, too.

Two judges awarded +4 and three judges awarded +3 to a set of twizzles that were very obviously off in real time. Teams with similar twizzles received -1 to +1. Awarding a +3 or +4 is outrageous and should be subject to disciplinary action, IMO. I'm also irked by +5s for a lift that had a visibly dicey moment. I could live with +4, but how can judges award a perfect score to something with an obvious bobble?

The judges have the capability to review. They either did not review or did not care. It may have been possible to miss the error on the lift (though it pushes the limits of reason), but anyone who missed the error on the twizzles lacks the requisite eyesight to judge. The judges did NOT do their job to an acceptable standard.

skateblessing's larger point stands that judges either missed the mistake or didn't care. There's no justification in the rulebook for a +4 score, and even +3 pushes the limits of believability given two big negative features and sustained loss of unison.

We should not shrug our shoulders at judging incompetence (at best) or cheating (at worst), even if it's common. Reform needs to start somewhere. I say let it start here. The scoring system has been overhauled previously for less.

 

[tony]

skateblessing is mixing up the role of the technical panel and the judges, but their larger point stands.

The technical panel reviewed the twizzles and took the level down. They did their job.

The judges had the opportunity to review the twizzles and the lift. We don't know if they did or not. There was a visible lack of unison on the first set and the exit of the twizzles (and FB&C have not managed to do a single set of twizzles in unison in Milano, but that's neither here nor there), and an obvious bobble on the lift. A competent judge should've at least reviewed the twizzles and ideally the lift, too.

Two judges awarded +4 and three judges awarded +3 to a set of twizzles that were very obviously off in real time. Teams with similar twizzles received -1 to +1. Awarding a +3 or +4 is outrageous and should be subject to disciplinary action, IMO. I'm also irked by +5s for a lift that had a visibly dicey moment. I could live with +4, but how can judges award a perfect score to something with an obvious bobble?

The judges have the capability to review. They either did not review or did not care. It may have been possible to miss the error on the lift (though it pushes the limits of reason), but anyone who missed the error on the twizzles lacks the requisite eyesight to judge. The judges did NOT do their job to an acceptable standard.

skateblessing's larger point stands that judges either missed the mistake or didn't care. There's no justification in the rulebook for a +4 score, and even +3 pushes the limits of believability given two big negative features and sustained loss of unison.

We should not shrug our shoulders at judging incompetence (at best) or cheating (at worst), even if it's common. Reform needs to start somewhere. I say let it start here. The scoring system has been overhauled previously for less.

And I’ve said for years that Chock twizzles should get the same scrutiny for rotating in place, the video from every angle shows it, and people come back with me being a hater. So what’s the difference? Her issue is also in the negative criteria side, maxing the element at +3.

It’s a standard years long deal versus a one time thing, and I already made it clear I think the +4s are way out of line for the twizzles of FB/C and equally as wrong as Chock’s +4s. But it’s very selective in ‘oh no the judges didn’t do the right thing’. And I’ve been calling for reform since I was basically a toddler, so there’s that too.

 

[jlai]

Gilles & Poirier were the best of the night! They had me in tears!

FB&C had issues. So did Chock & Bates on all their step elements. I’ll have to rewatch this to really dissect it.

I’d have Piper & Paul first on the night.

I agree

 

[skateblessing]

This is the exact kind of uninformed stuff that simply makes no sense and is getting annoying coming from actual skating journalists- not you.

It needs to stick in people’s minds that the level IS NOT SHOWN to the judges. They don’t know if a twizzle got a level 4 or a base level ‘officially’. They don’t mark their GOE on the level because they don’t know it. In singles skating they don’t even know the level, they just know things like !, q, <, and <<. Or V on spins.

There can be lower level elements that don’t hit all criteria for the top level and still can easily get +5.

skateblessing is mixing up the role of the technical panel and the judges, but their larger point stands.

The technical panel reviewed the twizzles and took the level down. They did their job.

The judges had the opportunity to review the twizzles and the lift. We don't know if they did or not. There was a visible lack of unison on the first set and the exit of the twizzles (and FB&C have not managed to do a single set of twizzles in unison in Milano, but that's neither here nor there), and an obvious bobble on the lift. A competent judge should've at least reviewed the twizzles and ideally the lift, too.

Two judges awarded +4 and three judges awarded +3 to a set of twizzles that were very obviously off in real time. Teams with similar twizzles received -1 to +1. Awarding a +3 or +4 is outrageous and should be subject to disciplinary action, IMO. I'm also irked by +5s for a lift that had a visibly dicey moment. I could live with +4, but how can judges award a perfect score to something with an obvious bobble?

The judges have the capability to review. They either did not review or did not care. It may have been possible to miss the error on the lift (though it pushes the limits of reason), but anyone who missed the error on the twizzles lacks the requisite eyesight to judge. The judges did NOT do their job to an acceptable standard.

skateblessing's larger point stands that judges either missed the mistake or didn't care. There's no justification in the rulebook for a +4 score, and even +3 pushes the limits of believability given two big negative features and sustained loss of unison.

We should not shrug our shoulders at judging incompetence (at best) or cheating (at worst), even if it's common. Reform needs to start somewhere. I say let it start here. The scoring system has been overhauled previously for less.

Thanks, this is exactly what I mean. And I was not aware of that the judging panel doesn´t review the twizzle if they panel look at the levels. The commentators has always mention how a UR from skater automatically forces the judges to change their GOE upon review, so I assume the same would be for some of the elements in ice dance. I learned something new today!

The point is really that the GOE is not justified either other way. Either in real time or in review.

 

[thvu]

For such a relatively poorly skated final group (aside from G&P), I find the hand wringing is a bit OTT if you’re just looking at the skating.

 

[Baby Yoda On Skates]

As someone who probably overreacted to the Shibutani Live Barn video, I feel like it's selective outrage. The French are rape apologists. Therefore they are bad people and bad people don't earn gold medals.

Watching the programs on a 60 inch TV instead of a 17 inch monitor makesa huge difference. There is a fluidity to the French team that C/B can't match. Cizeron sweeps around the ice even while falling out of the twizzle exit and Evan Bates is so stiff that my own back hurts in sympathy.

Also at least from the venue feed angle, Laurence was in front of him and I almost missed his stumble. Had to rewind to catch it.

 

[Wyliefan]

I don't think they've yet had a mature FD program. White Crow is pretty but its not interesting or sophisticated and its probably the best they've done.

Roses was a lovely program, and pretty mature, IIRC.