1976 Olympics Ladies LP - high quality!

[jägerbomb]

Hi everyone,
I'm not sure if this will be of interest here, or if this is too old/irrelevant, but my favorite YouTube channel for skating (@SydFigSka) recently uploaded the entire ladies top 10 from the 1976 Olympics in high quality -- honestly, it looks better than many YT skating vids from the 90s/00s.

I've only previously seen Hamill's long program, and I must say it's fascinating to see the rest of the field from this era. There are some very interesting elements/programs, and some things that I don't love as much. I will say some of the judging seems completely unhinged and detached from reality, particularly the artistic(?) scores.

Might be fun to watch and discuss this off-season if there's any interest?

 

[bardtoob]

Dorothy is just flying across the ice.

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Despite missing her triples, notably without falls despite some wild air positions (she must be a cat), Linda Fratianne's program is actually quite good, in terms of choreography. She has good speed, good usage of the ice, and lots of field moves.

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Kudos to Anett Poetzsch for actually landing one of her 3S. I feel like she only needed to improve her arms and from the shoulders up. She has all the content, but was a bit stiff in the upper body. I think she fell and had some sloppy jump positions because she was running out of steam. Katarina's sit spin and Salchow were like Anett's, as were many other elements.

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I enjoyed Lynn Nightengale's performance. This flying spin entrance, which looks loop or falling leafish, was interesting.

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I like the content of Christine Errath's performance. However, her hair is unfortunate and her yellow dress did not match the seriousness of the music. The fall was jarring, but she recovered quickly.

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I feel like the crowd didn't like Susanna Driano's marks because her performance was better than the sum of it's parts.

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Diane de Leeuw was much closer in the competition to Dorothy than one might have expected. Dorothy was just a smidge cleaner across the three phases. If you have to compare just Diane and Dorothy, then it was Diane's bad 2A attempt at the end which seemed to impact the following spin.

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[orbitz]

I think Fratianne's 76 LP was really the only good LP that she had. Her performance at the 76 National was outstanding (there's only a grainy video of it though) and also very good at Worlds that year. Unfortunately it kinda went downhill from there for her in term of being able to improve on what she was able to produce in 76, IMO.

I just can't with Diane's technique on the 2A - so wonky looking in the air. She also messed up on a 2lutz in addition to a later 2A, and her spins were no where near the quality of Dorothy's.

 

[bardtoob]

I think Fratianne's 76 LP was really the only good LP that she had. Her performance at the 76 National was outstanding (there's only a grainy video of it though) and also very good at Worlds that year. Unfortunately it kinda went downhill from there for her in term of being able to improve on what she was able to produce in 76, IMO.

At that time, LP scores were impacted by the starting order determined by the SP results, and the SP scores were impacted by the starting order determined by the CF results. This was all because ranked scoring required the judges to save room for the final group. Thus, Linda scaled back LP training to focus of the SP and CF, although Frank said explicitly that he trained Linda with the intent of winning every phase of the competition.

The magic formula back then was really, 1st in CF, 1st or 2nd in the SP, and 2nd in the LP. Although, 3rd in CF, 1st in the SP, and 2nd in the LP also worked pretty well.

It was really hard to win a competition if you were not in the top 3 in the CF because it pushed you to win the SP and LP.

 

[mtnskater]

I can still watch Dorothy Hamill endlessly. Enjoy her as much as anyone today. Gorgeous strong glide, edges and spins, athleticism and control. That layback!

In fact I’m struck by how evident the glide of figure skating was back then compared today where it is so much more choppy and frantic. I sure enjoyed the glide and the conservative use of arms. No flailing, windmilling, or slapping the ice Or ugly positions. And little poor posture.

I liked Christine Errath’s skating but that bronze medal was ridiculous with all the mistakes. (And I thought her haircut was super cute on her). The GDR sure did wield some power back then. Judging was way worse then in terms of reputation and politics.

 

[bardtoob]

Results:

1976 12th Olympic Winter Games, Innsbruck - Figure Skating Ladies Single Results

 

[bardtoob]

I liked Christine Errath’s skating but that bronze medal was ridiculous with all the mistakes. (And I thought her haircut was super cute on her). The GDR sure did wield some power back then. Judging was way worse then in terms of reputation and politics.

I wonder if this was politically possible because Anett, also from the GDR, was 4th and would have been 3rd if Christine had placed worse.

 

[jägerbomb]

Dorothy truly was in a league of her own here. Beautiful, pure skating. So much speed and flow.

de Leeuw was quite nice, but somewhat forgettable. Solid overall, I guess. But I can't remember anything else.

I liked Errath -- I thought the haircut and dress were chic, and the overall skating quite nice. Too bad about the errors because I found her significantly more compelling compared to de Leeuw.

So for 1980 Olympics, I was quite ambivalent about the Annet vs. Linda battle -- I thought they were quite close (and both quite boring) in the long program. However, I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Linda here. Easily a much better program than 1980 and I would have had her artistic scores much higher. Packed with non-jump content that expressed the music. Well executed, good musicality.... I would have had this 3rd in the LP, no question, even without a triple attempt.

Annet 4th in the long program was a joke -- I actually think she was the opposite of Linda and improved decently from 76 to 80. But at this event it was a no from me, even with the clean salchow. Artistic scores were way too high. GDR's politics game was top tier.

Loved Wendy Burge -- never heard of her before -- but I liked the enthusiastic presentation and plethora of delayed axel variations. It was giving Holly Cook (in the best possible way). I thought 9th in the LP was ridiculous and the crowd agreed-- I think she had some of the loudest applause of the night.

Vodoreova's double axel is still jaw-dropping today.

 

[nylynnr]

What stands out most about Linda Fratianne in '76 is her costume, far more elaborate and eye-catching than the other skaters' dresses. Frank Carroll once told me Linda's costumes were paid for by her grandfather, as his special gift to her skating career. Many years ago, I talked to Linda about her career and how she helped change the sport with the multiple triple jumps (toe and salchow) in her free skates. Her immediate response, "And also my costumes!"

 

[olympic]

How did they draw for the LP back then if Dorothy skated before Lynn Nightingale? It obviously would not have been based on a top 6 finish after the earlier phases of the competition…

 

[nylynnr]

How did they draw for the LP back then if Dorothy skated before Lynn Nightingale? It obviously would not have been based on a top 6 finish after the earlier phases of the competition…

Great question. Unless I am mistaken, the final group was seven skaters -- the top seven in the short program, not the combined compulsories + short. The skate order of those seven was decided via random draw. So, Hamill, sitting first overall, skated first, followed by Nightingale, who stood 9th overall but placed 5th in the short. That's my recollection but please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[olympic]

Great question. Unless I am mistaken, the final group was seven skaters -- the top seven in the short program, not the combined compulsories + short. The skate order of those seven was decided via random draw. So, Hamill, sitting first overall, skated first, followed by Nightingale, who stood 9th overall but placed 5th in the short. That's my recollection but please correct me if I am wrong.

Wow. Thanks! That was helpful. I've also rewatched 1980 and noticed that Linda skated before Sandy Lenz, and was scratching my head ..

ETA - I think 7 is an interesting number, not 6. I wonder why they reduced the number of skaters in the warm-up by 1984.

 

[bardtoob]

Wow. Thanks! That was helpful. I've also rewatched 1980 and noticed that Linda skated before Sandy Lenz, and was scratching my head ..

ETA - I think 7 is an interesting number, not 6. I wonder why they reduced the number of skaters in the warm-up by 1984.

That reminds me of a fun fact about Sandy Lenz, she had an on-again off-again relationship with the 3S, which she was attempting up to but not including the 1980 Olympics or at least it looked like an intentional 2S.

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[Seerek]

Great question. Unless I am mistaken, the final group was seven skaters -- the top seven in the short program, not the combined compulsories + short. The skate order of those seven was decided via random draw. So, Hamill, sitting first overall, skated first, followed by Nightingale, who stood 9th overall but placed 5th in the short. That's my recollection but please correct me if I am wrong.

That would also explain why you see figures leader Isabel de Naverre skating in the penultimate group because of her 11th place in the short program.

 

[olympic]

That reminds me of a fun fact about Sandy Lenz, she had an on-again off-again relationship with the 3S, which she was attempting up to but not including the 1980 Olympics or at least it looked like an intentional 2S.

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Another factoid - Lisa Marie Allen at Lake Placid also left out her 3S in the LP, after landing a 3S-2L in the SP. Marks suggest it was enough to let Denise Biellmann slip by her to 4th, although she moved up a slot from 6th to 5th anyway. They were very close overall IIRC.

ETA - I wish the ISU would go back to random draws. It gives a competition more whiplash so to speak Keeps spectators on their toes throughout.

 

[bardtoob]

Another factoid - Lisa Marie Allen at Lake Placid also left out her 3S in the LP, after landing a 3S-2L in the SP. Marks suggest it was enough to let Denise Biellmann slip by her to 4th, although she moved up a slot from 6th to 5th anyway. They were very close overall IIRC.

ETA - I wish the ISU would go back to random draws. It gives a competition more whiplash so to speak Keeps spectators on their toes throughout.

That's an interesting dynamic.

On the other hand, this would imply Lisa Marie Allen would have placed 3rd in the LP instead of 4th, which is saying that Lisa Marie Allen would have placed ahead of Anett Potzsch.

It's hard to say if the judges would have allowed Anett to finish any lower than 3rd in the LP unless she totally bombed. However, Annett did actually land a two-footed 3T and a clean 3S, although you can tell she was nervous because, for example, even her 2Lp was a bit wonky.

Anyway, by comparison, Anett's performance must has seemed exciting in the context of the competition because she skated right after Dagmar Lurz, who was boring to watch despite executing a clean 3Lp. Dagmar was actually very capable across all three phases of the competition but her freeskating was slow and gave you the impression that she was walking on egg shells.

 

[jägerbomb]

ETA - I wish the ISU would go back to random draws. It gives a competition more whiplash so to speak Keeps spectators on their toes throughout.

I want to agree with this, but I remember so many anti-climactic finishes over the year when the 5th or 6th place skater skates last and skates poorly.

 

[olympic]

That's an interesting dynamic.

On the other hand, this would imply Lisa Marie Allen would have placed 3rd in the LP instead of 4th, which is saying that Lisa Marie Allen would have placed ahead of Anett Potzsch.

It's hard to say if the judges would have allowed Anett to finish any lower than 3rd in the LP unless she totally bombed. However, Annett did actually land a two-footed 3T and a clean 3S, although you can tell she was nervous because, for example, even her 2Lp was a bit wonky.

Anyway, by comparison, Anett's performance must has seemed exciting in the context of the competition because she skated right after Dagmar Lurz, who was boring to watch despite executing a clean 3Lp. Dagmar was actually very capable across all three phases of the competition but her freeskating was slow and gave you the impression that she was walking on egg shells.

I was thinking with a 0.1 increase from the 9 judges on Allen's LP marks, the 0.9 total may not have even have passed Annett in the LP, but it may have been enough to give her a greater raw total over Biellmann on 5 of the judge's cards.

Until 1980, the standings were based on the ordinals completely determined and tied to the raw score totals from each judge across the 3 phases. If 5 judges scored Lisa for example higher than Denise over the 3 phases, Lisa would be ahead of Denise regardless of where she placed relative to Annett in the LP

 

[bardtoob]

If 5 judges scored Lisa for example higher than Denise over the 3 phases, Lisa would be ahead of Denise regardless of where she placed relative to Annett in the LP

Now that's interesting . . . these old scoring systems had so many nuances.