Valieva Banned for Four Years, Effective December 25, 2021

[marbri]

Another student of the ISU School of Mathematics. Let me play with the numbers for a bit to come up with a situation that didn't actually happen to explain why what we did was the right choice. Much better than using what actually happened to explain why we did what we did

 

[caseyedwards]

And they got their GO order from Osama Bin Laden, who was holed up in Afghanistan. Which is who American troops went in looking for. But you probably already know that.

And he was Saudi and he was in Pakistan

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

So I just realized why that "proof" was supposed to make a point. The thought is that you rig the rules and points to create the outcome you want. This is ISU thinking and backwards. You make the rules, follow them and get the outcome you get. It doesn't have to be the one you want. The ISU doesn't understand that concept at all.

 

[On My Own]

So I just realized why that "proof" was supposed to make a point.

Yeah lol. I thought @Yuri's point was that there's actually nothing preventing the ISU from making stuff up, and that's exactly what they did

 

[coppertop1]

Sigh. America invaded Afghanistan after terrorists based there attacked this country and killed a lot of Americans. Iraq is a lot harder to defend but even there the US had no interest in annexing or colonizing the country. And didn’t. That’s Putin’s stated goal in Ukraine.

Back to the doping and medal situation: I have a few Canadian friends who are not particularly into skating. Each has complained to me about the bronze medal situation. I don’t think the IOC/ISU is going to get away with this.

Don't bother wasting your time with @caseyedwards. They're only here to be dramatic

I don't think you have to be into a sport to understand what BS this is. Everyone's knows what doping is, and about the Russians systemic doping. And most people understand grade one math (except the ISU, who are using alternative math). Subtract twenty from ROC and try adding two to everyone else's score isn't that hard. The ISU is on track to make FIFA look better at this rate.

Yeah lol. I thought @Yuri's point was that there's actually nothing preventing the ISU from making stuff up, and that's exactly what they did

They need to go back to elementary school. 74-20=54. 53+2=55. 55>54. Therefore, Canada gets bronze

 

[BlueRidge]

Yeah lol. I thought @Yuri's point was that there's actually nothing preventing the ISU from making stuff up, and that's exactly what they did

and we are back to where we were yesterday. Its the ISU's event, the rules aren't fully clear, and they can do what they want.

Canada should scream bloody murder but I doubt the ISU will change the decision.

 

[Rafter]

Another student of the ISU School of Mathematics. Let me play with the numbers for a bit to come up with a situation that didn't actually happen to explain why what we did was the right choice. Much better than using what actually happened to explain why we did what we did

The Russian apologists never fail to amaze me. Cheating, doping, the list goes on. Their history in sports of this is undeniable. And the IOC and ISU is at the top of the apologists list.

Russia is a mafia, kleptocracy state run by a brutal bully dictator with a culture of cheating and corruption that filters to their sports but let’s forgive and forget and kowtow to the Russians. Every time.

 

[Rafter]

No comments

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752638808334516271

This appears to be have been deleted by the Russian embassy but it’s very interesting and telling that they used Serena and Simone. There’s a reason why they didn’t use a picture of Kristi Yamaguchi or Michelle Kwan or Sasha Cohen.

 

[Rukia]

But what about JAP now, since Komatsubara & Koleto now add 1 point in RD (4 to 5) and in FD (6 to 7)? Their 2 points boosts JAP from 63 to 65: TIED in a dead heat with the USA at 65 points each! Maybe there's a tiebreaker, but still!

May I suggest that that just jp or jpn is a better abbreviation for Japan

 

[kedrin]

let's assume that Sinitsina & Katsalapov were disqualified instead of Kamila Valieva. They finished 2nd in the Rhythm Dance behind Hubbell & Donohue USA and 2nd in the Free Dance behind Chock & Bates USA, so initially you would subtract 18 points (9 RD, 9 FD) and ROC drops from 74 to 56 points.

USA started with 65 points but doesn't gain any points because both couples already placed 1st in the RD and FD.

CAN started with 53 points and Gilles & Poirer pick up 1 point in the RD (7 to 8) and FD (8 to 9) for 55 points. In this example, CAN would remain 1 point below ROC with 56.

But what about JAP now, since Komatsubara & Koleto now add 1 point in RD (4 to 5) and in FD (6 to 7)? Their 2 points boosts JAP from 63 to 65: TIED in a dead heat with the USA at 65 points each! Maybe there's a tiebreaker, but still!

Still easier than COP scoring.

 

[coppertop1]

The Russian apologists never fail to amaze me. Cheating, doping, the list goes on. Their history in sports of this is undeniable. And the IOC and ISU is at the top of the apologists list.

Russia is a mafia, kleptocracy state run by a brutal bully dictator with a culture of cheating and corruption that filters to their sports but let’s forgive and forget and kowtow to the Russians. Every time.

Exactly. Almost every recent scandal can be linked to Russia. Yet they're the victim. But they also expect people to shut up and put up when they benefit. They share have been banned after Sochi for their systemic doping, and the constant leniency has fed their entitlement.

I feel like they long overdue ban has broken the spell. There's no denying that Russian skaters are good but it's and he hard not to question the results.

 

[caseyedwards]

So was Soviet Union but it was never banned from all sports. So is China today.

 

[caseyedwards]

The Russian apologists never fail to amaze me. Cheating, doping, the list goes on. Their history in sports of this is undeniable. And the IOC and ISU is at the top of the apologists list.

Russia is a mafia, kleptocracy state run by a brutal bully dictator with a culture of cheating and corruption that filters to their sports but let’s forgive and forget and kowtow to the Russians. Every time.

What kind of apologists ban Russia from all sports lol

 

[Primorskaya]

Interesting disconnect in the Russian media with on the one hand the "Kamila is our blameless golden girl" BS everywhere, and on the other, Rudkovskaya and Tarasova basically saying Eteri gave her all the drugs and that she should do the right thing and take the blame on her shoulders. Very typical, there's an official truth everyone is sniggering at in their sleeve, and a real situation being discussed not discreetly at all.
Should the Russian authorities rethink their idiotic decision of throwing away the ISU's olive branch (which should never have been offered but whatever), I could see this being used. Make Eteri the fall guy/gal, play outraged virtue at this betrayal of her pupil and the whole nation. It's rubbish but hey, plausible deniability. I'd dance on her symbolic grave, but another one would immediately step up to do the dirty work in her place so...

 

[4skating]

The NY Times article on the matter. These is a gifted link:

Russian Skaters Stripped of Olympic Gold, Setting Up New Fight for Medals

A decision to address the disqualification of Kamila Valieva gave the United States the gold in the Beijing 2022 team event, but it kept Canada off the podium.

www.nytimes.com

 

[overedge]

A point that's been raised on Xitter but which also needs amplifying is that the team medal might be the only Canadian figure skating medal at the 2022 games. Own The Podium (private org that supports elite Canadian athletes & sport federations) and federal sport funding use Olympic medal count as one of the funding criteria.

So if Canada doesn't get the bronze team medal, Skate Canada might lose a significant amount of funding for training. The figure mentioned on Xitter was close to $2 million.

 

[Aaron MB Fan]

So if Canada doesn't get the bronze team medal, Skate Canada might lose a significant amount of funding for training. The figure mentioned was close to $2 million.

If Canada can overturn the ISU decision and get the bronze medal, Skate Canada needs to give Maddie Schizas all the accolades and thanks for earning that $2 million for them. She delivered and exceeded all expectations under the utmost amount of pressure.

 

[MacMadame]

By the way, I predicted this would happen two years ago when FSU first was doing the calculations and got shredded here for it disagreed with.

Fixed it.

 

[Judy]

A point that's been raised on Xitter but which also needsamplifying is that the team medal might be the only Canadian figure skating medal at the 2022 games. Own The Podium (private org that supports elite athletes & federations) and federal sport funding use Olympic medal count as one of the funding criteria.

So if Canada doesn't get the bronze team medal, Skate Canada might lose a significant amount of funding for training. The figure mentioned was close to $2 million.

My niece works at Own the Podium (maternity leave now). We can rarely talk about it because we’re at our family togethers and conversation gets broken up. I do know that she loves working there and it’s an amazing group of people. I’m seeing her Sunday but it’ll be all about her and her hubby’s new baby girl and I’m not even going to try. But Own the Podium funds the skaters not Skate Canada. The last conversation I had briefly after the Olympics is that we’re required to focus more on paraolympics. Maybe that was a year or so ago.

 

[caseyedwards]

Interesting disconnect in the Russian media with on the one hand the "Kamila is our blameless golden girl" BS everywhere, and on the other, Rudkovskaya and Tarasova basically saying Eteri gave her all the drugs and that she should do the right thing and take the blame on her shoulders. Very typical, there's an official truth everyone is sniggering at in their sleeve, and a real situation being discussed not discreetly at all.
Should the Russian authorities rethink their idiotic decision of throwing away the ISU's olive branch (which should never have been offered but whatever), I could see this being used. Make Eteri the fall guy/gal, play outraged virtue at this betrayal of her pupil and the whole nation. It's rubbish but hey, plausible deniability. I'd dance on her symbolic grave, but another one would immediately step up to do the dirty work in her place so...

lol these are basically two coaches plotting the destruction of another Coach for their financial benefit

 

[Allskate]

As a former USFSA Accountant, I believe the ISU did the right thing with the math as moving everyone else up a spot could cause havoc in situations where someone in the middle of the pack is DQ'd, as opposed to whoever finished first as with the Valieva case.

Oh, my. We wouldn't want to make things right if it is going to result in havoc. Because avoiding havoc is so much more important than having things be right and deterring doping and misconduct. And, also, not moving people up obviously avoids havoc.

It's really sad that this is a USFSA accountant's view. Fortunately, it's a "former" USFSA accountant's view and current American officials disagree and believe that the placements should have been reallocated.

No. You haven't. Not at all. Everyone moves up after a DQ (especially for cheating and doping) and points get reallocated. Pretty damn simple rule to follow.

And it's actually the general ISU rule to move people up when other skaters are disqualified. What is happening right now is the aberration and is causing havoc. Maybe some people are just too lazy to want to redo the math in situations like this, but I suspect that there are bigger issues at the ISU.

 

[overedge]

My niece works at Own the Podium (maternity leave now). We can rarely talk about it because we’re at our family togethers and conversation gets broken up. I do know that she loves working there and it’s an amazing group of people. I’m seeing her Sunday but it’ll be all about her and her hubby’s new baby girl and I’m not even going to try. But Own the Podium funds the skaters not Skate Canada. The last conversation I had briefly after the Olympics is that we’re required to focus more on paraolympics. Maybe that was a year or so ago.

Please read my post again. I didn't say that Skate Canada funds the skaters. I said that Own the Podium and the federal government allocate money to federations, some of which then goes through the federations to the skaters. I.e. Skate Canada is redistributing money it gets from other sources.

 

[nylynnr]

It's really sad that this is a USFSA accountant's view. Fortunately, it's a "former" USFSA accountant's view and current American officials disagree and believe that the placements should have been reallocated.

Did USFS issue a statement concerning the allocation of the bronze medal?

 

[Karen-W]

Did USFS issue a statement concerning the allocation of the bronze medal?

I don't think so. Travis Tygart, the head of USADA, is the only US official who has commented on the bronze medal.

 

[nylynnr]

I don't think so. Travis Tygart, the head of USADA, is the only US official who has commented on the bronze medal.

Right -- otherwise, everything I've heard is along the lines of Sarah Hirshland's “There is no scenario at this point in which Team USA is not the gold medal winners, and so we’re focused on getting those gold medals awarded to Team USA.”

 

[kwanfan1818]

I thought Russia had 30 days since the ruling to appeal under strict procedural grounds.

 

[VGThuy]

I thought Russia had 30 days since the ruling to appeal under strict procedural grounds.

Yeah, they do. I wonder if the USFS and USOC and other organizations know something we don’t know to be so sure that even within an appeal filed that team USA will get the gold. Most likely there isn’t much ground for which Russia could stand on to overturn these decisions, and if there is, it is probably due to the length of her suspension, but even with the lesser sentence, maybe they will still suspend her for time that includes the team event.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Since Russia was floating around two years as semi-reasonable, the length of the suspension is a bit moot, IMO, since Russia has been out of international competition for two seasons already, and it overlaps with every Russian skater's suspension for the aggression against Ukraine. If they're allowed back for the Olympic qualification season in 2025-26, it will be as if she was suspended for two years: from Russian Nationals in December 2021 to the end of the 2022 season, and then the 2025-26 season through December. It's almost guaranteed that there will be a senior B the last week of December and the first week of January so that she can get her minimums by the cut-off if she's in the mix after Russian Nationals, one that will be canceled if she doesn't. They only need two competitors from two nations to qualify for TES minimums, and one can withdraw as long as they show up for the WD. If Russia is participating by then again, they can throw their own senior B.

There is nothing international to get back from her for the 2022-23 and 2023-24 seasons, because it's not as if Russia is going to keep her from cashing in within Russia or take back her appearance money, which will, magically, show up on the books as 1 ruble, with the rest going to charities for orphans and puppies. I doubt they'll even touch her domestic results.

They've already learned that there will be minimal repercussions, given how much the IOC ties itself into pretzels to accommodate them, and the ISU loses little by taking the same stance. Only if the ISU doesn't go along with the "neutral" farce would they be showing any backbone, and they've already shown the same willingness to lick butt by awarding Russia the bronze. The best case scenario is they pretend to be incompetent and change the math because of the backlash. Why not try to get away with it if they can?

 

[skategal]

I thought Russia had 30 days since the ruling to appeal under strict procedural grounds.

For the CAS ruling that suspends Valieva for 4 years they only have 30 days to file an appeal under strict procedural grounds only.

The ISU distribution of medals can be appealed under separate application to CAS which both Canada and Russia are doing.

I don’t know if Russia has grounds to appeal the CAS suspension ruling. I suspect they don’t because they have to show procedure errors and CAS was very careful to make sure procedure was followed. That’s why it took so long.

 

[MacMadame]

I doubt they'll even touch her domestic results.

I believe they don't need to because those aren't ISU events.