Ok...this question came to me from what some of you told me in my last thread....How do Coaches and Skaters make sure of and check to weather or not the other Partner is on the same page with being held? Do they ask or explain things before hand? Or what happens? Because of course,you never see a Partner complaining on TV. Is there an Ice-Dance coach here that can explain this? Thanks.
HOW IS FINDING OUT WHAT TYPE OF PERSON A PARTNER IS WITH BEING TOUCHED OR HELD HANDLED?
- Thread starter FSWer
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overedge
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@FSWer I'm not a coach but I can try to explain it from a skater's perspective.
When you see ice dancers on TV, those skaters have done their programs many, many times already, and done a lot of work with their coaches on those programs. So hopefully those skaters would have been asked about touching before they started working on those programs, long before you are seeing them. That is why you wouldn't see them asking while they are on TV.
Skaters know that the man and the woman holding each other is part of ice dancing. So a skater who is uncomfortable with being touched by a partner in any way probably won't become an ice dancer at all.
Coaches and skaters have to trust each other. But coaches often have to touch their students to show them how or where to move. So if a coach wants to touch a skater as part of teaching them, a good coach will ask the skater before touching them, or before asking the skater's partner to touch them. This is particularly true when the touching involves a private or sensitive body part, like a woman's chest.
But sometimes coaches will touch skaters without asking them. Sometimes the coach forgets to ask because they are so busy concentrating on what they are working on with the skater. And sometimes, unfortunately, the coach is more interested in touching the skater than they are in anything else.
And sometimes a skater doesn't feel that they can say "no" to their coaches or to their partner, even if the skater feels uncomfortable about being touched. The skater might think that the coach will not want to teach them any more if they say "no". Or they might be worried that their partner will be mad if they say "no". So even if the touching is wrong, the skater might feel they have no choice but to let it happen. That is really awful, but it happens - and that is why asking before touching, and making sure everyone is really OK with the touching, is so important.
When you see ice dancers on TV, those skaters have done their programs many, many times already, and done a lot of work with their coaches on those programs. So hopefully those skaters would have been asked about touching before they started working on those programs, long before you are seeing them. That is why you wouldn't see them asking while they are on TV.
Skaters know that the man and the woman holding each other is part of ice dancing. So a skater who is uncomfortable with being touched by a partner in any way probably won't become an ice dancer at all.
Coaches and skaters have to trust each other. But coaches often have to touch their students to show them how or where to move. So if a coach wants to touch a skater as part of teaching them, a good coach will ask the skater before touching them, or before asking the skater's partner to touch them. This is particularly true when the touching involves a private or sensitive body part, like a woman's chest.
But sometimes coaches will touch skaters without asking them. Sometimes the coach forgets to ask because they are so busy concentrating on what they are working on with the skater. And sometimes, unfortunately, the coach is more interested in touching the skater than they are in anything else.
And sometimes a skater doesn't feel that they can say "no" to their coaches or to their partner, even if the skater feels uncomfortable about being touched. The skater might think that the coach will not want to teach them any more if they say "no". Or they might be worried that their partner will be mad if they say "no". So even if the touching is wrong, the skater might feel they have no choice but to let it happen. That is really awful, but it happens - and that is why asking before touching, and making sure everyone is really OK with the touching, is so important.
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Yazmeen
All we are saying, is give peace a chance
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FSWer - another point is that most skaters who skate together start "touching" using simple hand holds and dance holds and doing basic dance patterns, not lifts or complicated holds.
And its very important to stress that both skaters in a partnership have to have similar skills and have to agree on how they will skate together, including how they will touch and do holds. I've said this to you before and will say it again: you don't just get a partner or skate with a partner because you want a partner. Partners have to agree to skate together and have similar goals. And one skater cannot "carry the load," so to speak. You cannot expect one skater to have higher level skills and then just pull the other skater around the ice. And a skater with lower level skills doesn't magically become an ice dancer just because they skate win a partner with higher level skills.
Partnerships are not easy; they take a lot of work and commitment. And trust and willingness to decide together what the partners will and won't do together.
And its very important to stress that both skaters in a partnership have to have similar skills and have to agree on how they will skate together, including how they will touch and do holds. I've said this to you before and will say it again: you don't just get a partner or skate with a partner because you want a partner. Partners have to agree to skate together and have similar goals. And one skater cannot "carry the load," so to speak. You cannot expect one skater to have higher level skills and then just pull the other skater around the ice. And a skater with lower level skills doesn't magically become an ice dancer just because they skate win a partner with higher level skills.
Partnerships are not easy; they take a lot of work and commitment. And trust and willingness to decide together what the partners will and won't do together.
Clarice
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FSWer, it's okay to ask us questions here and it's okay to talk to a coach if you want to know about things. But please don't go around asking random women and girls at the rink whether it's okay to touch them. It will sound creepy and you could get asked to leave the rink. You are still a very beginning ice dancer and would only be using the most basic holds. Any ice dancer would know what those are, and if they are okay dancing with someone they are okay with being in those holds.
And I'm going to add on to what Yazmeen said about not getting a partner just because you want a partner. Partners are not automatically girlfriend and boyfriend. Sometimes that is the case, but a lot of the time it isn't. Partners are two skaters who want to ice dance, and the only reason they touch each other is because ice dancing requires that. My current training partner is my friend, but not my boyfriend. We skate in close holds because the dance requires it. We do not touch each other off the ice, and on the ice all we're thinking about is where to aim the next step so we don't knock each other over. Ice dances you watch on TV may look romantic, but that's because the dance is choreographed to look that way. The skaters aren't thinking about romance while they're dancing; they're thinking about doing the dance correctly.
And I'm going to add on to what Yazmeen said about not getting a partner just because you want a partner. Partners are not automatically girlfriend and boyfriend. Sometimes that is the case, but a lot of the time it isn't. Partners are two skaters who want to ice dance, and the only reason they touch each other is because ice dancing requires that. My current training partner is my friend, but not my boyfriend. We skate in close holds because the dance requires it. We do not touch each other off the ice, and on the ice all we're thinking about is where to aim the next step so we don't knock each other over. Ice dances you watch on TV may look romantic, but that's because the dance is choreographed to look that way. The skaters aren't thinking about romance while they're dancing; they're thinking about doing the dance correctly.
Yazmeen
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FSWer, I'm strongly agree with what Clarice has told you. Most ice dance and pairs teams are not boyfriend and girlfriend. Even one of your favorite teams, Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir, are not a couple in real life - they date other people. They are just amazing skaters and also great actors who can make their ice dances look so romantic on ice when they are not in a real life romance. My coach is Damian Dodge, and he and his partner, Julia Biechler, are not a couple off the ice either. Just good friends who work well together as ice dance partners. And remember, a few of these teams are brother and sister - the Shibutanis and the Parsons, for example, so they partner and skater in a different way that isn't romantic but still beautiful and intricate ice dancing.
The best thing you can do right now is work on your basic skating skills so you can develop the potential to possibly be a good partner someday. And I really have to also strongly back Clarice here - it is not a good idea to just go up to lady skater and ask to touch them or hold them. And NEVER, EVER, just grab a lady or any other person - a touch that is uninvited could be considered an assault, which could get a person into a lot of trouble, even if they meant no harm.
The best thing you can do right now is work on your basic skating skills so you can develop the potential to possibly be a good partner someday. And I really have to also strongly back Clarice here - it is not a good idea to just go up to lady skater and ask to touch them or hold them. And NEVER, EVER, just grab a lady or any other person - a touch that is uninvited could be considered an assault, which could get a person into a lot of trouble, even if they meant no harm.
treesprite
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I'm sorry, but I have to comment on the assumption people seem to be making. I don't see anything in what FSWer has posted, that would make me think he was planning to do any unsolocited touching of random female skaters. For all any of you really know, maybe he himself is concerned about his own reactions to the physical contact that would be required for dancing. Being drawn to how romantic the physical contact appears to be, doesn't automatically mean that his primary objective is to have romantic physical contact with another skater.
Clarice
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Yes, I can see where it could come off that way. I, for one, have been upset about all the stories about sexual harassment in the news lately. I was concerned that FSWer's current interest in holds and touching could be misunderstood and he could get into some trouble at the rink.
FSWer, I'm sorry if it sounded like I thought you would do something wrong on purpose. That is not what I meant.
FSWer, I'm sorry if it sounded like I thought you would do something wrong on purpose. That is not what I meant.
Yazmeen
All we are saying, is give peace a chance
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No-one here is trying to say that FSWer is doing anything wrong or would do anything wrong. But skaters partnering is not a simple thing. We all emphasize safe skating here and just want to help FSWer understand that partnering and skating with someone else is something that takes agreement between two people of similar skill levels and goals. He is very focused on getting a partner, and we want to help him understand there's way more to that than just holds and skating together. And in this current charged atmosphere where approaching and touching someone can be easily misunderstood (even with the best of intentions), his friends here who have supported his skating goals for years want to make sure he is careful in all his interactions on the ice. That's all.
