Canadian Pairs 2017/2018 Season News and Updates

[Catherine M]

I didn't knew the age of Bardei.

I believe Panetta/Lapointe will not be eligible for international jr next year, but not because of Chloe's age (they are legal until 18) but because of Steven, turning 21. It's in Advanced novice they have to be less than 15.

I think you are missing my point. You have to be 15 on July 1, 2018 to skate as a Senior internationally next season and Chloe won't be 15 to July 29th. So along with Steven being too old for junior events, they can not skate in any international event next season, if they decide to stay together as a team. In other cases like this, teams have broken up as one or both partners weren't willing to sit out an entire season internationally. I guess we will have to see about this team and what they decide to do for the 18/19 season.

 

[kwanfan1818]

To compete internationally in Seniors, both must be at least 15 by July 1 of that season.

To compete internationally in Juniors,

• Both must at least 13
• The female must be younger than 19
• The male must be younger than 21

by July 1 if that season.

Internationally, if Panetta is <15 by July 1, 2018, they can't compete in Seniors, and if Lapointe is 21 or over, they can't compete in Juniors.

This doesn't apply to domestic competitions.

ETA: didn't type fast enough

 

[Mary S]

Next year, McIntosh/Toste should be 13 and 15 or 16. But I don't have their birth date, so I may be wrong by a year.
Perreault/Pierro will be 13-17
Ripley/Brawley 16-18
Pouliot/Simard 13-17

So they should all be ISU Jr eligible (unless Brooke McIntosh turns 13 too late), and they will be all eligible until the girls turns 19 and the boys 21, so it means 2 more years at least (Ripley/Brawley), 3 for Perreault/Pierro and Pouliot/Simard and 4 for Mcintosh/Toste...

Imagine, 4 years of experience in ISU Junior. That would be a HUGE frametime experience. Start building those trophy shelves!!! Just hoping they will not outgrew each other...

Don't forget the Boys-Eddy and Levesque/Hudon who already have assignment this year and will remain jr eligible next year. There is also Andrew/Knott who will become first time eligible, then Isabelle Brasseur is coming back... Junior pairs in Canada will be a totally new game next year with some. Canadian-American are also contemplating some spots (the Frantz and Marvaldi/Villeneuve)...

Isn't it more years each of those pairs have? If it's 19/21 for girl/boy then wouldn't it be:

McIntosh/Toste: 6 yrs
Perreault/Pierro: 4 yrs
Ripley/Brawley: 3 yrs
Pouliot/Simard: 4 yrs

I guess exactly when their birthdays are may affect those numbers by 1 yr.

 

[Catherine M]

I went back and looked at who has skated or will skate juniors this fall and came up with this list; I put the top JGP score of those that skated internationally and bolded the ones that can't skate on the JGP in 2018. And I left off Walsh/Michaud since they are skating seniors the rest of the year (well except for jr worlds).

Patricia Andrew / Paxton Knott
Olivia Boys-Eddy/ Mackenzie Boys-Eddy; 123.42
Justine Brasseur /Mark Bardei
Chloe Choinard / Mathieu Ostiguy; 121.27
Allison Eby / Matthew den Boer
Katherina Frantz / Nicolas Frantz
Gabrielle Levesque / Pier-Alexandre Hudon; 110.46
Isabella Mancini / Christian Reekie
Gabriella Marvaldi / Daniel Villeneuve
Lori-Ann Matte / Thierry Ferland; 123.88
Mariah McCaw / Steven Adcock
Chloe Panetta / Steven Lapointe; 123.30
Alison Schumacher / Zachary Daleman


So it will be interesting to see how the teams do in the upcoming sectional competitions in a few weeks.

 

[newskatefan2]

I went back and looked at who has skated or will skate juniors this fall and came up with this list; I put the top JGP score of those that skated internationally and bolded the ones that can't skate on the JGP in 2018. And I left off Walsh/Michaud since they are skating seniors the rest of the year (well except for jr worlds).

Patricia Andrew / Paxton Knott
Olivia Boys-Eddy/ Mackenzie Boys-Eddy; 123.42
Justine Brasseur /Mark Bardei
Chloe Choinard / Mathieu Ostiguy; 121.27
Allison Eby / Matthew den Boer
Katherina Frantz / Nicolas Frantz
Gabrielle Levesque / Pier-Alexandre Hudon; 110.46
Isabella Mancini / Christian Reekie
Gabriella Marvaldi / Daniel Villeneuve
Lori-Ann Matte / Thierry Ferland; 123.88
Mariah McCaw / Steven Adcock
Chloe Panetta / Steven Lapointe; 123.30
Alison Schumacher / Zachary Daleman


So it will be interesting to see how the teams do in the upcoming sectional competitions in a few weeks.

Are sure that Walsh/Michaud will skate senior? They can skate as junior as per the rules.

 

[newskatefan2]

Are sure that Walsh/Michaud will skate senior? They can skate as junior as per the rules.

 

[RoseRed]

If Walsh/Michaud are skating senior nationally, do they have a chance at a 4CC spot? I know they''d have to be sent out to get the senior minimums.

Are sure that Walsh/Michaud will skate senior? They can skate as junior as per the rules.

I have no idea if they will or not, but they might want to try to get on the National Team by placing top 5 in seniors.

 

[Catherine M]

Are sure that Walsh/Michaud will skate senior? They can skate as junior as per the rules.

I thought I read somewhere that Walsh/Michaud have plans to skate seniors at Canadians. I guess we won't really know till the completed roster for the Ontario sectional is out. Right now they aren't listed in either junior or senior pairs.

 

[newskatefan2]

I thought I read somewhere that Walsh/Michaud have plans to skate seniors at Canadians. I guess we won't really know till the completed roster for the Ontario sectional is out. Right now they aren't listed in either junior or senior pairs.

Right. I just checked the list of entries for the Ontario sectionals but the list is out of date (dated Sep. 20). We'll check and see.

RoseRed is making a good point. I doubt they could make it in the top five, however, considering the bunch of Seniors this year (with quite higher scores than W/M). But no one can predict the future...

 

[RoseRed]

Right. I just checked the list of entries for the Ontario sectionals but the list is out of date (dated Sep. 20). We'll check and see.

RoseRed is making a good point. I doubt they could make it in the top five, however, considering the bunch of Seniors this year (with quite higher scores than W/M). But no one can predict the future...

I was just thinking they might want to try it, since they already have the junior title. Top four is out of reach for sure, but I think they'd have an outside chance at 5th. The favourites for that spot would be Ruest/Wolfe (169.11) and Kolodziej/Deschamps (CS - 164.32) and you're right that those are much higher scores than Walsh/Michaud (JGP - 153.73). But I think W/M can skate better than they've shown so far this season, senior programs have more scoring potential, and pairs teams make mistakes a lot.

If they got the senior minimums, they could get a chance at 4CC, which would be good experience. They'd only need to finish 6th for that.

Anyways, I do agree that 5th isn't very likely, but I could see them giving it a try at least.

 

[mag]

If Walsh/Michaud are skating senior nationally, do they have a chance at a 4CC spot? I know they''d have to be sent out to get the senior minimums.



I have no idea if they will or not, but they might want to try to get on the National Team by placing top 5 in seniors.

They would need to be sent out prior to Nationals to get the minimums. 4CC's starts on January 22nd so I believe the minimums must be reached by Jan 1.

 

[mackiecat]

Yes they are skating Sr domestically

 

[wickedwitch]

W/M are forced to do easier jumps in the SP and one less group 5 lift in the LP. That's worth about 7.5 extra points just in base value.

 

[DFO]

Isn't it more years each of those pairs have? If it's 19/21 for girl/boy then wouldn't it be:

McIntosh/Toste: 6 yrs
Perreault/Pierro: 4 yrs
Ripley/Brawley: 3 yrs
Pouliot/Simard: 4 yrs

I guess exactly when their birthdays are may affect those numbers by 1 yr.

I collected birthdate of many of them. Not that hard in Québec since they are listed on Patinage Québec website. But I'm not comfy revealing minors birthday, so I will just say "early" for those before july 1st and "late" for those after.

Let's just start with Perreault/Pierro. Birthday late 2004/late 2000. So, including next year, they will have 3 years.
Pouliot/Simard also late 2004/late 2000, also 3 years starting next year.
Ripley/Brawley late 2001/early 2000. This time, they both will be aging out same time, 2 years including next year,
McIntosh/Toste... (I'm guessing) early 2005/early 2002. Including next year, they will have 4 years. But if Brooke is late 2005 they will not be eligible for another year. On the other hand, if its early 2005/late 2002, then they will have 5 years including next year.

The difference betweem @Mary S and me is I'm NOT including the current year since they are not competing in Junior yet and the assignments are already done.

 

[DFO]

I think you are missing my point. You have to be 15 on July 1, 2018 to skate as a Senior internationally next season and Chloe won't be 15 to July 29th. So along with Steven being too old for junior events, they can not skate in any international event next season, if they decide to stay together as a team. In other cases like this, teams have broken up as one or both partners weren't willing to sit out an entire season internationally. I guess we will have to see about this team and what they decide to do for the 18/19 season.

I understand, but even if Chloe would have been age eligible, I don't think they would have get a senior assignment yet. But you are right, they have the choice to persevere or to split to be able to do international events for each other with new partners. But that's also the case of Walsh/Michaud, Matte/Ferland, Brasseur/Bardei... and those are tough décisions. There are not that many available partners with good experience and relocating is often required for at least one of the skaters.

 

[newskatefan2]

I understand, but even if Chloe would have been age eligible, I don't think they would have get a senior assignment yet. But you are right, they have the choice to persevere or to split to be able to do international events for each other with new partners. But that's also the case of Walsh/Michaud, Matte/Ferland, Brasseur/Bardei... and those are tough décisions. There are not that many available partners with good experience and relocating is often required for at least one of the skaters.

Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. Seeking out for a new partner may force you to not compete internationally for at least a year. When you are a junior or a senior and you seek a new partner you will probably prefer partnering with someone who already has international experience. The problem here is that the candidate you have in mind (with high probability) has represented another country and therefore needs be released by his own country which takes a year (or even two if not more). There are not that many potential skating partners in Canada for actual pairs that would split up for next year (all those cases where the boys are aging out and are not longer eligible for international competitions). From my point of view, I think that most "aging out" pairs (read Walsh/Michaud, Matte/Ferland, Brasseur/Bardei) will be more likely to stick together, sacrifice a year satisficying themselves with domestic competitions to refine their skills and plays, and then accept tol be eligible for international assignments only later on. This is the price to pay but this is less costly than to split the team and seek out a new partner with little probability of finding a suitable partner (due to release issues) for each of the just-split pair. The market is small with very few candidates insofar in our country.

 

[DFO]

Just to give you an idea of how much "Worth" a 111,66 score, done recently by McIntosh/Toste in pairs novice. In the last 10 years here are the top scores in Novice with a score of 110+:

Jamie Knoblauch / Cody Wong WO 40.90 79.00 119.90 (National 2016)
Hayleigh Bell / Alistair Sylvester CO 1 39.76 1 78.46 118.22 (National 2012)
Shalena Rau / Phelan Simpson WO 115.75 (National 2011)
Chloé Panetta / Steven Lapointe QC 41.91 (1) 71.51 (1) 113.42 (National 2017)
Brooke McIntosh / Brandon Toste CO 38.26 (1) 73.40 (1) 111.66 (Oktoberfest 2017)
Justine Brasseur / Mathieu Ostiguy QC 36.91 74.72 111.63 (National 2015)

All of them, but McIntosh/Toste, did them at the National. I couldn't find any other novice pair scores over 110 in any other event. Usually, those skaters did scores 5 to 10 points less at their regionals. So applying the same logic to McIntosh/Toste, they may be in route for a novice Canadian pair score record ever!

 

[RoseRed]

W/M are forced to do easier jumps in the SP and one less group 5 lift in the LP. That's worth about 7.5 extra points just in base value.

That's a good point. Their SB is 153.73, which is 10.59 points below K/D's SB and 15.38 points below R/W's. The base value difference between a 2Lz and a 3T is 2.20 points. And W/M have gotten an edge call on the 2Lz in the SP both times, which makes it a 2.80 point difference. And the extra group 5 lift in the FS is 7.5 points if it's level 4 and 7.00 if it's level 3.

So just in BV, we could add 10.3 points to W/M. And they also get negative GOE on the 2Lze, so there's that too. So if they skated two good senior programs, their score could increase a lot. So they could be in the mix for 5th.

I understand, but even if Chloe would have been age eligible, I don't think they would have get a senior assignment yet. But you are right, they have the choice to persevere or to split to be able to do international events for each other with new partners. But that's also the case of Walsh/Michaud, Matte/Ferland, Brasseur/Bardei... and those are tough décisions. There are not that many available partners with good experience and relocating is often required for at least one of the skaters.

Well not exactly. None of those girls are too young for senior the way Chloe is. They might still split up, but the possibility of at least some sort of senior B or international assignment is there. And I think Walsh/Michaud would at least get a senior B, if not be in the mix for a host spot at Skate Canada. D/R and I/M are both retiring, so there will be a bit of space for the GP and especially the senior Bs.

From my point of view, I think that most "aging out" pairs (read Walsh/Michaud, Matte/Ferland, Brasseur/Bardei) will be more likely to stick together, sacrifice a year satisficying themselves with domestic competitions to refine their skills and plays, and then accept tol be eligible for international assignments only later on.

Evelyn Walsh and Lori Matte are both eligible for senior competition. Evelyn is currently 16 and Lori is 18. Justine is also 16.

 

[DFO]

Actually, it's a bit more complicated than that. Seeking out for a new partner may force you to not compete internationally for at least a year. When you are a junior or a senior and you seek a new partner you will probably prefer partnering with someone who already has international experience. The problem here is that the candidate you have in mind (with high probability) has represented another country and therefore needs be released by his own country which takes a year (or even two if not more). There are not that many potential skating partners in Canada for actual pairs that would split up for next year (all those cases where the boys are aging out and are not longer eligible for international competitions). From my point of view, I think that most "aging out" pairs (read Walsh/Michaud, Matte/Ferland, Brasseur/Bardei) will be more likely to stick together, sacrifice a year satisficying themselves with domestic competitions to refine their skills and plays, and then accept tol be eligible for international assignments only later on. This is the price to pay but this is less costly than to split the team and seek out a new partner with little probability of finding a suitable partner (due to release issues) for each of the just-split pair. The market is small with very few candidates insofar in our country.

I agree. I think the choice is easier for long term Partner like Matte/Ferland, to stick together. But for others who are together for only a year or two and tried many partners in the past, the question could remain. I believe when you find the right partner, it's like in real life : you stick together, no matter what.

 

[Cant Skate]

What has been the highest score for Purich/Portz so far this season?

 

[Sylvia]

What has been the highest score for Purich/Portz so far this season?

147.84 at CS Ondrej Nepela Trophy.

National Summer Series Senior Pairs scores: https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Senior-Pairs-Summer-Series-082117.pdf

NSS Junior Pairs scores: https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Junior-Pairs-Summer-Series-082217.pdf

NSS Novice Pairs scores: https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Novice-Pairs-Summer-Series-082217.pdf

NSS Pre-Novice scores: https://skatecanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Pre-Novice-Pairs-Summer-Series-082117.pdf

 

[Erin]

I hope Skate Canada is paying attention and gets Walsh & Michaud out somewhere to get the senior minimums. I have to say, I really hate this rule that junior competitions can't be used to meet senior minimums. I understand why it doesn't work the other way because it would be easier to meet the junior TES with a senior program, but if a junior can meet the senior level TES where they have limitations on what they can try in the SP and one less element in the LP, then more power to them. Making them go out and do an extra senior competition just seems like adding needless stress on the skater and expense on the federation.

 

[RoseRed]

I hope Skate Canada is paying attention and gets Walsh & Michaud out somewhere to get the senior minimums. I have to say, I really hate this rule that junior competitions can't be used to meet senior minimums. I understand why it doesn't work the other way because it would be easier to meet the junior TES with a senior program, but if a junior can meet the senior level TES where they have limitations on what they can try in the SP and one less element in the LP, then more power to them. Making them go out and do an extra senior competition just seems like adding needless stress on the skater and expense on the federation.

Agreed, although given that this is their last junior season, I don't think it would be a bad thing for W/M to get some senior international experience.

 

[Erin]

Agreed, although given that this is their last junior season, I don't think it would be a bad thing for W/M to get some senior international experience.

Agreed on that too - I guess I was taking it as a given that the senior international experience would happen at 4CC if they didn't need to go out and get the minimums.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

I can see Wlash and Michaud getting the 5th place at Nationals. It would be a 4-horse run for the fifth place!

 

[Catherine M]

Nic Nadeau and Roman Sadovsky both got sent to Golden Spin last December to get senior min scores so there is a precedence of skate Canada making sure that senior min scores are obtained by their top juniors before the second part of the season. So hopefully they will send Evelyn and Trennt out to one of later challenger events.

 

[RoseRed]

Nic Nadeau and Roman Sadovsky both got sent to Golden Spin last December to get senior min scores so there is a precedence of skate Canada making sure that senior min scores are obtained by their top juniors before the second part of the season. So hopefully they will send Evelyn and Trennt out to one of later challenger events.

Nic was supposed to be senior that year anyways, he just didn't compete much because he was injured. But Roman is a good example.

 

[Erin]

Nic was supposed to be senior that year anyways, he just didn't compete much because he was injured. But Roman is a good example.

Nic had been scheduled to compete on the JGP that year before he was injured.

 

[Rock2]

I can see Wlash and Michaud getting the 5th place at Nationals. It would be a 4-horse run for the fifth place!

Ehhhh, would 6th get you on the National Team if D/R are retiring?
(or 7th, if Dylan packs it in??)

 

[danafan]

Ehhhh, would 6th get you on the National Team if D/R are retiring?
(or 7th, if Dylan packs it in??)

Well Jones/Reagan were named to the national team their first season - pretty sure they finished last at nationals, but there were hardly any senior teams still together. Anything is possible!